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Saving 90 Million? (for all the money concerned people)
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TheloniusMonk
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8/17/2005  2:54 AM
NO PROBLEM, HOUSTON

August 17, 2005 --

THE decision to spare Allan Houston from being waived under the amnesty clause Monday does no harm to the Knicks' rebuilding program. Isiah Thomas knows better now.

Houston has as much chance of suiting up in a Knicks uniform on opening night (Nov. 2) in Boston as Micheal Ray Richardson. Thomas wasted enough time waiting on Houston and continues to move on without him, even offering a contract to Indiana's young swingman James Jones on the same day he formally announced Houston stays.

Thomas doesn't believe Houston will make it back. Heck, even the Knicks' doctors don't think he can play anymore. And once Larry Brown sees Houston play defense on those arthritic knees, the new Knicks coach won't give Houston the time of day.

This decision ultimately will save the Knicks more money. It's not all about respect and dignity for Houston, the Knicks' fourth all-time leading scorer whose "20" jersey could wind up in the Garden rafters, considering James Dolan's infatuation.

Yes, Dolan wants his golfing buddy to go out on his own terms, wants to let Houston make the call on his career, wants him to be the one to say he can't do it anymore.

But this decision to waive Jerome Williams and not Houston has been wrongly portrayed as another waste of Knick money. Au contraire. It could be a savings bonanza.

The Knicks net the $21 million luxury-tax savings from Williams' contract. Then when Houston files for medical retirement, which is inevitable, they'll save all his luxury tax money ($40 million), plus insurance will pay off about $29 million of the $40 million contract. (Houston gets every dime).



That adds up to a $90 million savings if Houston retires after training camp, $50 million more than if they just had waived Houston Monday. If the Knicks sign Jones, they'll have 16 guaranteed contracts, one more than the maximum. Houston will know where he stands after training camp. Will he even be good enough to make the 15-man roster?

Houston finally sounded sane Monday, saying he'll retire if it becomes obvious he can't help. Houston said he doesn't want to be "a thorn in the club's side" and he's unwilling to go through the same chaos of the past two injury-wracked seasons.

It's a seismic shift in his philosophy. "Retirement" had been as distasteful a word to the religious Houston as using the Lord's name in vain.

Houston hasn't played since January, when his jumper was an eyesore and he didn't have enough strength in his legs to fight through picks or play defense. He's still unsure he'll be ready for the first practice Oct. 5. He's being delusional if he really thinks he can make it back.

But let's not knock him. He could have taken the $40 million and run. He doesn't want to be 45 years old and wonder "what if?''

His father, Wade, told me last week, "It is time for him to start thinking about what he's going to do after basketball. But he's never mentioned coaching."

Knicks fans should admire Houston for not quitting, for not wanting to continue this comeback in another city, for Dolan showing loyalty. "My first option was to finish here, and it's always been my dream," Houston said.

Thomas isn't holding his breath. "If he's able to gain the form we all know he's capable of reaching, then it's an added bonus," he said.

No, it would be a miracle.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
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TheloniusMonk
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8/17/2005  2:55 AM
http://nypost.com/sports/knicks/27074.htm
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
TheloniusMonk
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8/17/2005  3:00 AM
The best thing Houston can do is go out with class. His legacy has been tarnished because of the contract and injury. But to me, if he goes out with honor and class he could really help his legacy in the long run. I'd show him the ultimate respect for trying to get it done here for as long as he did and finishing right here in New York where he caught hell from people. For dude to be able to be sent out the right way will help his credibilty and put a period at the end of his career.

Not to speak so early but.....It's been real H20! You tried your best. I can ask no more of you my man.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
FrenchKnicks
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8/17/2005  3:13 AM
I don't get it... if Williams is expected to retire because of his medical condition, why did the Knicks waive him as the designated player under that one-time rule??? They could have saved that money with insurance also, and we could have waived Rose or Shandon's contract...

Houston: retirement (medical condition)
Williams: retirement (medical condition)
Rose or Anderson: waived

The Knicks would have saved a lot more moeny that way, taken care of the glut at the PF position, gotten two medical exception to get players in the future....
TheloniusMonk
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8/17/2005  3:21 AM
Posted by FrenchKnicks:

I don't get it... if Williams is expected to retire because of his medical condition, why did the Knicks waive him as the designated player under that one-time rule??? They could have saved that money with insurance also, and we could have waived Rose or Shandon's contract...

Houston: retirement (medical condition)
Williams: retirement (medical condition)
Rose or Anderson: waived

The Knicks would have saved a lot more moeny that way, taken care of the glut at the PF position, gotten two medical exception to get players in the future....

Thing is, who's to say that JYD would have retired if he wasn't waived? He may have just tried to stick it out for the season knowing he had little chance of going on. Now that he has been waived I don't think he had a choice but to retire. Can he pass a physical if he was offered a contract from another team? No. So I think he was forced into retirment by the amnesty rule....not so sure he would have retired on his own. But who knows?


'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
TheloniusMonk
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8/17/2005  4:02 AM
The best thing Houston can do is go out with class. His legacy has been tarnished because of the contract and injury. But to me, if he goes out with honor and class he could really help his legacy in the long run. I'd show him the ultimate respect for trying to get it done here for as long as he did and finishing right here in New York where he caught hell from people. For dude to be able to be sent out the right way will help his credibilty and put a period at the end of his career.

Not to speak so early but.....It's been real H20! You tried your best. I can ask no more of you my man.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
TheloniusMonk
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8/17/2005  4:02 AM
http://nypost.com/sports/knicks/27074.htm
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
Nalod
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8/17/2005  8:53 AM
I hate to toot my horn, but I wrote much of that yesterday. I wonder if any writers look here? Ah, Im not that good!

I agree with most of it. Once again I will repeat, a player to retire due to injury and collect money is a long process. the player must have any proceedure needed to get back, and rehab. They also must miss a certain amount of games over a year, or two and then try to come back. JYD has been breaking down over a number of years, this is not new for him. Why go thru all the trouble over two years when he knows his time is up anyway, and other teams have little interest. The knicks like him, we like him, and he might not want to relocate AGAIN!

For those who slammed the knicks for doing williams instead of Allan, I guess now you know the reasons why! Now if Allan does linger, that won't be cool.

I have faith!
Marv
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8/17/2005  9:11 AM
Nalod is Deep Throat!!!!!
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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8/17/2005  10:19 AM
Oh god I am so tired of all the Allan fluff. I can't wait until he retires already so we can get on to some real topics regarding the coming season.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
islesfan
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8/17/2005  10:49 AM
Posted by TheloniusMonk:

The best thing Houston can do is go out with class. His legacy has been tarnished because of the contract and injury. But to me, if he goes out with honor and class he could really help his legacy in the long run. I'd show him the ultimate respect for trying to get it done here for as long as he did and finishing right here in New York where he caught hell from people. For dude to be able to be sent out the right way will help his credibilty and put a period at the end of his career.

Not to speak so early but.....It's been real H20! You tried your best. I can ask no more of you my man.


So if you get injured, while playing and through no fault of your own, and can't physically play, you "tarnish your legacy"? That's moronic. Or maybe you fault him for accepting the money that Dolan threw at him. Like anybody else in this world wouldn't have because they thought it was too much.

Houston worked his butt off for us and gave us an honest effort every time he took the court in a Knicks jersey. He's honored his contract, he's respected the game, the organization and the fans and he's been a good player for us. If he never plays another game for us and doesn't retire he still goes out with honor and class, no matter what some of you ingrates think.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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8/17/2005  10:59 AM
Bottom line- if he can't contribute, he's got to retire. This team is moving on. How long are we supposed to thank him for the old times? 2 years of damn near paid leave (while the team suffered) is enough.

All those caught up in the nostalgia can get video and DVDs of Allan's heyday, while the rest of us who prefer to live in the here and now will concentrate on the present and the future.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Marv
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8/17/2005  11:04 AM
Posted by islesfan:


So if you get injured, while playing and through no fault of your own, and can't physically play, you "tarnish your legacy"?

IMO yes. That's not the same as blame. It's as in, "He had an excellent career but he never reached greatness because an injury felled him as he was moving into his peak production years."

rvhoss
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8/17/2005  11:06 AM
I agree...the sports landscape is riddled with players that got injured, while playing and through no fault of their own, and couldn't physically play, and "tarnished their legacy".

Off the top of my head, who was that running back for the broncos that led the league in rushing?

Or for that matter, Larry Johnson AND mourning, when grand momma and Gonzo were patrolling in Carolina, they were the future of the NBA, then injuries have put them in also ran categories.

Barkley is regarded higher and he's got the same number of rings as they do.

Injuries are a part of sports, ask Gale Sayers.
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rvhoss
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8/17/2005  11:09 AM
Oh, I forgot the topic of the thread...

Yes, the move to release JYD seems to have been all part of the plan to save even more money.

In this case, I think we should all be lucky dolan is friends with Houston, otherwise we would have saved nothing off the cap AND not gotten our MLE for houston. We all know JYD wasn't retiring if he wasn't waived, I mean, did any of us even know he was injured?

Yes Virginia, there is a plan.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 08-17-2005 11:10 AM]
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islesfan
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8/17/2005  11:15 AM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by islesfan:


So if you get injured, while playing and through no fault of your own, and can't physically play, you "tarnish your legacy"?

IMO yes. That's not the same as blame. It's as in, "He had an excellent career but he never reached greatness because an injury felled him as he was moving into his peak production years."


In regard to their exploits on the playing field, I agree with you, although I don't think anybody said Houston was destined for greatness. But it sounds like people are using Houston's injury as an excuse to discredit him personally.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Marv
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8/17/2005  11:22 AM
Posted by islesfan:

In regard to their exploits on the playing field, I agree with you, although I don't think anybody said Houston was destined for greatness. But it sounds like people are using Houston's injury as an excuse to discredit him personally.

Personally I do think he was destined for greatness. Remember his last year before he got injured? That man was BALLING!! IMO, IMO!!

I think if he hadn't gotten injured he would have been every bit as revered as Reggie Miller. And AH kept himself in stukpendous condition and was only getting stronger and stronger physically along with wiser as a basketball player.

You think Reggie belongs in the HOF and in the rafters at Indy? So do I. And I think AH would have ended up there and no one would have argued against his number hanging in the Garden at the end of it if he hadn't gotten injured.

One man's opinion.

rvhoss
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8/17/2005  11:30 AM
I agree he was destined to greatness and I think had he been healthy, the knicks could have packaged another run at the title.

For me, I like houston's game, he dropped 50 on a couple of teams and I was at the garden during a couple of last second shots that won games.

It's going to be sad to see him go, but since we got marbury, I've not looked back...any player on team pre-marbury...

Well, I don't want to incurr the wrath of the marbs haters, once the drama subsides, I think we can get back to headlines that involve scores and players that play on the court as opposed to the drama off the court.

The post Ewing generation is a blur to me (yes, I put h20 in the post ewing generation), after starks and mason it's Starbury.

Houston, healthy, could have been the mattingly of basketball, but in the end, he may end up just forgotten or thought of as an expensive piece to a disappointing puzzle.

I won't shed a tear, I feel the new era has begun.

I'm really really really looking forward to this year more than any other year.
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islesfan
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8/17/2005  11:33 AM
Posted by Marv:
Posted by islesfan:

In regard to their exploits on the playing field, I agree with you, although I don't think anybody said Houston was destined for greatness. But it sounds like people are using Houston's injury as an excuse to discredit him personally.

Personally I do think he was destined for greatness. Remember his last year before he got injured? That man was BALLING!! IMO, IMO!!

I think if he hadn't gotten injured he would have been every bit as revered as Reggie Miller. And AH kept himself in stukpendous condition and was only getting stronger and stronger physically along with wiser as a basketball player.

You think Reggie belongs in the HOF and in the rafters at Indy? So do I. And I think AH would have ended up there and no one would have argued against his number hanging in the Garden at the end of it if he hadn't gotten injured.

One man's opinion.


Whether I think he was destined for greatness isn't the point. It's the fact that Houston's injury is being used to discredit him personally. Any thoughts on that Marv?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
rvhoss
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8/17/2005  11:38 AM
I think his discrediting is the fact that he kept saying he was able to play (at a high level) when it was clear that he wasn't. Even this year he says he can't be sure if he can make mini camp oct. 5th (when he "shut it down" back in january) but he's in a "good place".

If this were some other market, they'd let him slide, but in new york, if you don't come clean, you get the wringer.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 08-17-2005 11:47 AM]
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Saving 90 Million? (for all the money concerned people)

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