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Houston over Miller..Another NY mistake??
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sebstar
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6/8/2002  10:23 PM
I hate to open old wounds, and of course hindsight is perfect vision, but in 96 when the Knicks finally made more then a half-hearted attempt to build around Ewing, did they **** up the championship by signing Houston over Reggie Miller.

Now usually I am a guy who values youth, but despite Reggie having a few years on Houston, at that point Reggie had established himself as one of the great clutch players in sports history who kept humilating the Knicks in the early-mid 90's. Plus Reg was openly campaigning to bring his game full time to the Garden.

Sure, we were robbed out of a possible championship in 1997 when we were punished for a fight that the Miami Heat started out of desperation (David Stern conspiracy?) , but its food for morbid thought to wonder if "Serial Killer" Reggie would have brought a championship to New York rather then that put you to sleep lanquid and spirtless Houston.

Your Thoughts....
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
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NUMBER20
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6/8/2002  10:33 PM
thats good for you. who cares!!!!
BigSm00th
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6/9/2002  12:51 AM
sebstar, not only do I agree with everything you say, but you write it out well. Words like lanquid and and morbid. You sound Clyde Frazier baby, I love it. Anyway, since nobody else has, I'll welcome you to the board. That's right, a welcome from the Public Relations Official. Wooo, nobody can touch me. (Thank you Andrew and Martin).

Anyway, who cares should be followed by a "?" not a "1" And judging from your posting name, NUMBER20, you're a Houston fan. I care, for one. Miller would've been the guy to step up and take the shots Ewing didn't want. I didn't know he wanted to play in NY though.

"Hindsight is perfect vision." Very true. I think the Knicks saw Houston as a more athletic and younger version of Miller. Houston isn't a Reggie Miller, but he's not a choke artist either. People always talk about Houston being a baby, but I really like him as a player. He's a great shooter, has stepped up numerous times (Miami, anyone?) and without Sprewell on the team he would average 23 to 26 points a game, making him one of the top 15/20 scorers. Does he play defense? No, but he's existent at least.

Since he's immovable, I'd say don't move him. The first signing was worth it, he did his job to an extent. But the 2nd made no sense for that money. To make it make sense, they need to trade Spree, which brings me to a point I made in another post, if the Cavs want a Spree/Camby package for Miller, why not. Who cares, roll the freaking dice Layden. Miller, a top point guard, would just dish Houston the rock and create, Houston would earn his money, and the front court would be thin but it's not like the Knicks are competeting in the West. A good backcourt in the East gets you in the playoffs (see: Boston, Milwaukee last year, etc.)

They're stuck with Houston and not Miller, Reggie that is. GET ANDRE, WOOOOO.

P.S.-Sorry for just rambling from Reggie Miller to Andre Miller, but they gotta get Miller. They must, even it means putting in the 7th.
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Vmart
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6/9/2002  10:18 AM
Posted by sebstar:

I hate to open old wounds, and of course hindsight is perfect vision, but in 96 when the Knicks finally made more then a half-hearted attempt to build around Ewing, did they **** up the championship by signing Houston over Reggie Miller.

Now usually I am a guy who values youth, but despite Reggie having a few years on Houston, at that point Reggie had established himself as one of the great clutch players in sports history who kept humilating the Knicks in the early-mid 90's. Plus Reg was openly campaigning to bring his game full time to the Garden.

Sure, we were robbed out of a possible championship in 1997 when we were punished for a fight that the Miami Heat started out of desperation (David Stern conspiracy?) , but its food for morbid thought to wonder if "Serial Killer" Reggie would have brought a championship to New York rather then that put you to sleep lanquid and spirtless Houston.

Your Thoughts....

No I don't think the Knicks made a mistake with choosing Houston. What you have to look at is Miller got to the finals and lost. Houston got to the finals and lost its a wash. It make no difference. Hind sight is always perfect no doubt but they were building around Ewing and Ewing got old fast. He started getting injured A healthy Ewing and I think the Knicks and Houston go to the finals back to back. They might not have won but I think they get back there.
sebstar
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6/9/2002  5:36 PM
Thanks for the warm welcome and the kind words Big S, very much appreciated!

Granted talking about "what might have been" is not terribly productive, but then again how productive have the Knicks been anyway? Especially in the front office. With all things considered to me a guy who thrives off of pressure packed championship level play makes more of a difference then just a solid player. Especially considering all the recent playoff games that resulted in tight heartbreaks. But I guess we will never know like the Tootsie roll commercial. And to number20, dont worry about Houston, he is fine. Good Ol' Allan was able to con the Knicks into paying 40 million more than any team in its right mind. Its the Knicks who are in trouble, not A. Houston Federal Bank.

However, I think you are on to something with Andre Miller, Smooth my good man. I like the connecting tissue from one Miller to another, BTW. Looking at if from the Knicks perspective, obviously they are in dire need of such a player. (exciting young stud, an extinct breed in the Garden) Getting Miller is the type of shake up the listless foundation deal that the Knicks desperately need. But from the Cavs vantage point they seem equally as needy...

No secret that the Cavs are dying to draft Labron James next year, and dont want to shell out the kind of cheese for Miller. They want to be in an even more dilapidated state come next year for ping pong balls. A package of either Spree/7th pick, or Camby/7th pick pick sounds about right. That way the Cavs get two lottery pics in succession (does not break salary cap back) and it puts themselves in a solid position to draft James next year. I know there have been rumblings over a A. Miller for the Bulls 2nd pick, (better for Cavs) but I doubt Jabba the Krause is going to give up J Will, so the Cavs might be in a bad enough bargining position to deal, instead of just letting him Miller walk with zero compensation.

This way the Knicks can then dangle Camby or Spree to either the Kings (Gerald Wallace) or Blazers (Bonzi Wells)and then make a serious run at free agent Tim Duncan next year. Hey, we might be back in business
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
BigSm00th
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6/9/2002  5:41 PM
Rock on baby, rock on. It looks like we should send the link of this thread to Layden, give him some ideas.
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knicksbabyyeah
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6/9/2002  6:46 PM
This way the Knicks can then dangle Camby or Spree to either the Kings (Gerald Wallace) or Blazers (Bonzi Wells)and then make a serious run at free agent Tim Duncan next year. Hey, we might be back in business

I love Gerald Wallace, wouldn't it be sweet to get a potential player for once instead of someone peaking and getting the cap in even more trouble? Gerald is loved though by the Kings fans but dangling Spree would surely get Webber lobbying.

Tim Duncan is out of the question though,

a) our cap is way obese so it would have to be a sign and trade and SA will never do that with the Knicks (and for who really)

b) TD likes warm places, so actual possibilities would be Orlando and Miami (godforbid).

c) TD doesn't like a big marketplace, ruling out Chicago, NY, Indiana and LA.

I truly like the idea of trading with the Kings, but it will be hard to accomplish. I figure Webber, Bibby, Stojakovic, Divac and TRurkoglu to be offlimits. I doubt they'll want to part with the 6th man of the year Booby Jackson but getting Spree might alleviate that problem. I doubt though the the NYK braintrust will trade Spree for potential instead of proven stardom (just the way Jimmy D and Layden work).
BigSm00th
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6/9/2002  7:27 PM
Spree's huge salary makes him tough to deal with the Kings, the only deal they would consider would be getting Camby (Camby for Cleaves, Brent Price, and Wallace works). Maybe a 3-team deal, Spree to Kings, Camby to Cavs, Andre Miller and Wallace to NYK and then work out everything else with small contracts.
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knicksbabyyeah
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6/10/2002  5:40 AM
That could be a good 3-way, especially since the Kings have no need for 'Dre. A tad too much to hope for but who knows, could be very interesting.
sebstar
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6/12/2002  8:15 PM
Its really sad how the Knicks have not developed (or showed willingness to) any sort of young talent at all in the past two decades. After the Ewing pick , the only Knicks draft pick to make any sort of impact on the team is C Ward. Thats such an embarrassement. Well, they did draft Jackson and Strickland, but they made sure they traded them away once they showed potential.

Gerald Wallace is a straight up stud, with easy All Star potential. Snatching him wouldnt be out of the question considering Spree and Webb's love affair. Like you mentioned nabbing one of the top 5 Kings would be fantasy land, but the Kings might be willing to part with Bobby Jackson. The Kings have a small window open for a championship. And in a Game 7, Spree probably looks more desirable to them then Bobby J. The Kings are owned by Billionaire Casino owners, so I doubt they would sweat the cap too much.

But you're right. Showing foresight by trading for a potential star is something that other successful franchises do to win championships. Not the Knicks. I am conviced that there is some sort of incentive for Scott Layden to destroy the Knicks.

Regarding Duncan, I am operating under the assumption that he will be an unrestricted free agent. If thats the case, then the Knicks would have to do everything in their power to land him. Sell him on what it would be like to star for one of the most storied franchises in all of sports.

If Duncan took the Knicks to a championship, he would own the city, the way Derek Jeter does, and become a bonafide celebrity. He would also become a living basketball legend in not only NY, but the league. He wouldnt get that playing in front of senior citizens in either Miami team. And if he is hooked on warm weather, then just tell him MSG would be like 1000 degrees every home game with a team like A. Miller, G.Wallace, and Tim Duncan running wild. You would have to sell him on the importance and history of it all. If he wants to be one of the greats, and not just collect a paycheck he would do it.

But if he is an restricted free agent, you're right...Forget it. Knicks wouldnt have anybody on their team even worth Tim Duncan's socks.

I'm just living in a fantasy world anyway. Even if Tim Duncan was available Layden wouldnt go after him. Just like last year when he went after Weatherspoon instead of CWebb. Laydon would probably bypass Duncan and throw a 100 million dollar contract at Greg Ostratag or Samaki Walker.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
Vmart
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6/13/2002  12:24 PM
Posted by sebstar:


Regarding Duncan, I am operating under the assumption that he will be an unrestricted free agent. If thats the case, then the Knicks would have to do everything in their power to land him. Sell him on what it would be like to star for one of the most storied franchises in all of sports.

If Duncan took the Knicks to a championship, he would own the city, the way Derek Jeter does, and become a bonafide celebrity. He would also become a living basketball legend in not only NY, but the league. He wouldnt get that playing in front of senior citizens in either Miami team. And if he is hooked on warm weather, then just tell him MSG would be like 1000 degrees every home game with a team like A. Miller, G.Wallace, and Tim Duncan running wild. You would have to sell him on the importance and history of it all. If he wants to be one of the greats, and not just collect a paycheck he would do it.

There is no way that Duncan comes to NY he is someone who doesn't like pressure and to be a Knick you have pressure. Duncan has said the last time he became a Free Agent that he didn't want to go to a big city. He probably will sign with San Antonio again or go to Orlando who has already taken steps to land him. Orlando has 5 or 6 players who are becoming free agents next year. Allowing them to have the biggest spend room of any team. San Antonio can go over the cap to sign Duncan they have that right.
BigSm00th
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6/13/2002  12:42 PM
Yeah, I can't see that happening either. Orlando, with John Gabriel (who is one of the top 3 executives, along with the Pacers--Walsh I think, and the Grizzlies with West) should be able to pick him up. San Antonio is going to be absolutely horrible in two years. Duncan is leaving, Robinson is retiring, Steve Smith will retire. That leaves Tony Parker and Bruce Bowen. Wow, they really blew their shot.
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knicksbabyyeah
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6/13/2002  12:55 PM
Not necessarily, the Spurs are looking at alot of cap room as well when TD becomes a FA, it appears they'll involve TD as to who they'll pursue with the capspace so TD can essentially build his own team. I don't think TD is moving anywhere. Especially if Ginobili is coming over this season the Spurs will have a young nucleus and might be real players in the FA market while keeping TD.
Vmart
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6/13/2002  1:03 PM
Posted by knicksbabyyeah:

Not necessarily, the Spurs are looking at alot of cap room as well when TD becomes a FA, it appears they'll involve TD as to who they'll pursue with the capspace so TD can essentially build his own team. I don't think TD is moving anywhere. Especially if Ginobili is coming over this season the Spurs will have a young nucleus and might be real players in the FA market while keeping TD.

Hanging around San Antonio would be a mistake on his part. He gets knocked out by Lakers every year because lack of supporting cast. Why not go to a team that already has key components already signed and team up with TMac and Hill and get to the finals every year to face the Lakers and Knock them out. I would buy that match up on pay per view. Shaq-Duncan, Tmac-Kobe if Sterns does that he would get the NBA kicking again.
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Houston over Miller..Another NY mistake??
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