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who was the brain behind removing the third yr guarantee for rookies?
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BRIGGS
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7/28/2005  6:07 PM
now, the NBA is left in a position where they are 2nd in line in competing for foregin players-and POSSIBLY our own rookies.


for example--fran vazquez picked 11th--was ofered a 3 yr deal 3.3mm TAX free with free housing and vehicle--RM is allowed to pay his entire mm $ buyout as well-the Magic are only allowed 500K

Orlando sits in a spot where his salary slot is counted against the cap for 3 years--and being over the threshold may make them ultimately renounce his rights.
heck even if im an NBA rookie picked 16th for 2 years 2.4mm which Im taxed on--what if I euro team offers 3 years 1mm per tax free free housing etc... its a no brainer 3mm tax free with living expenses vs after tax net 1.4 and i have to find a house in an expensive market?


with all of these huge contracts that cause probelms--the best idea the nBA could come up withis to shaft rookies?

STUPID
that along with the OBNOXIOUS REDICULOUS BORING 7 game 1st round format
RIP Crushalot😞
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KNICKSdom
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7/28/2005  6:33 PM
Damn. That's messed up. Can you imagine the Knicks in that position as well? A gem of a rookie falls on their lap in mid-round then swoosh an euroclub outbid the Knicks for a better contract. That's just messed up. David Stern must have had his hands all over this one.
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knicksbabyyeah
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Netherlands
7/28/2005  6:42 PM
Briggs, calm down it's not how you think it is

a) When you draft a player you own his rights, only for trade purposes does his salary scale apply but if you don't sign him he doesn't count against your cap. So Orlando will never renounce his rights nor ever be burdened with him on the salarycap if he stays in europe(not likely but could happen)

b) The new rookie contracts are for 2yrs, with a 3rd and 4th yr team option and finally a 5th yr qualifying offer. Only difference with the previous CBA rookie contracts is the 3rd year which was guaranteed but now it's at the team's discretion.

c) The 3rd yr option, although not a biggie, is the compromise between the nba and the players union. The nba wanted a 20yr age rule, nbpa wanted none, it became 19 and a yr less guaranteed.

feel better now?

Oh and Fran signed with Tau, who are the powerhouse in europe now, so it was a choice of playing for the european spurs or the lottery magic and the money is better, good for him.

[Edited by - knicksbabyyeah on 07/28/2005 18:44:03]
BRIGGS
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7/28/2005  7:02 PM
no, it's common sense stupidity.

when you talk BOTTOM line now

If you are drafted into the nBA you are ONLY guaranteed 2 years

lets say you are picked 17th--that comes out roughly to , what about 1.4mm net? not including finding housing in expensive markets, vehicles etc..

euro team can beat your offer with 3 years 3 mm tax free[not ibnculding their exchange rate trumps us by 20% right now]--including free housing + vehicle

like i said if you dont think its stupid, ask the Orlando Magic or the Raptors--its already effected them quite frankly--the Euro offers are more lucrative--but in terms of nbA $ its still very low

so over insignificant $$ and a NOn guarnteed 3rd yr option, the Magic LOSE the 11 th pick in the draft which hurts the entire nba.

it time us players will be smart and take the euro cash as well

why not--its just business

as far as owning someones rights--who cares first off the player may decide just to never come back here--ala vujonic OR by the time the player decides he wants to comeback the idiot who drafted him would likely be fired.

No it was bad business taking away the third yr option--one BAd major contract is worth 25+ bad rookie ones
RIP Crushalot😞
crzymdups
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7/28/2005  7:27 PM
let's not forget that NBA players also get like $200 a day per diem in addition to their contract for the entire season.

I agree it's stupid, but in theory, an international team could ALWAYS trump any kind of rookie contract the NBA could come up with - because the rookie contract implies a limit and they can treat players like a free agent. who's to say some Italian team doesn't offer the next Lebron $100 M for 3 yrs and he has to choose between that and $6 million in the NBA?
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BRIGGS
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7/28/2005  7:48 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

let's not forget that NBA players also get like $200 a day per diem in addition to their contract for the entire season.

I agree it's stupid, but in theory, an international team could ALWAYS trump any kind of rookie contract the NBA could come up with - because the rookie contract implies a limit and they can treat players like a free agent. who's to say some Italian team doesn't offer the next Lebron $100 M for 3 yrs and he has to choose between that and $6 million in the NBA?

they cant compete with upper tier contracts, they dont have a market big enough for it YET, but one day its possible

but if im an nba owner, im looking at this fran vazquez thing hard, because simply a european team trumped an offer because they could not guarantee a third year and werent able to buyout the full 1mm --while RM can. were not talking big $ but to a 22 year old man--- the extra 1.5mm guaranteed is a LOt of cash.

RIP Crushalot😞
knicksbabyyeah
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Netherlands
7/29/2005  3:43 AM
Yes international teams have no salary cap, which is why good teams stay good really, so yes they can trump any rookie contract, but the 2nd contract is usually bigger in the NBA, there are next to none endorsements in europe (boatload of cash there), and yes the per diem is nicer here too.

With or without the guaranteed 3rd yr, international can trump the rookie scale offer, there has always been a limit to what a team can spend to buyout contracts (to prevent salary circumvention). The NBA has increased the maximum buyout offer from 350k to 500k, any previous buyouts were done by the players themselves after negotiations with their teams.

This really isn't such a big deal, just bad communication between magic and Vasquez his agent, not a big warning sign. Vasquez is rumored ot have signed a new contract for 2 yrs with a top team, instead of going to the nba. His choice, not the bla bla about the 3rd year not guaranteed.
DarkKnicks
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Spain
7/29/2005  4:48 AM
I don't like Fran Vazquez very much, but it's not his fault that the Magic drafted him. I agree with BRIGGS that it was an enormous mistake. Now he wants to leave Unicaja, where he has played this recent years, to go to Real Madrid, and I'll tell you this: if he goes to Real Madrid he is not going to get a lot of minutes and he is not going to score a lot of points. The Real Madrid coach concentrates all the offensive game in the guards. He wont touch the ball very much.

OT: Splitter sucks. A month ago I did not created a topic about this because he didn't declare for the draft and because I can't speak English properly enough to explain it, but HE lost the ACB finals. TAU (his team) were winning by 10 points with less than a minute and they ended up losing the game. In that minute Splitter missed an EASY lay up (he could have dunk) and with less than 8 seconds left and two points ahead he GAVE the ball to Real Madrid in one of the most stupid passes I have ever seen. It's true that he is 20 years old or whatever, but his play-loff performance has been mediocre at best and specially in the finals he has been a non-factor (well, he REALLY was a factor in the last minute...). BTW I hate Real Madrid, so to see them winning the finals that way made me feel Next year he will have plenty of time to prove himself but I can tell you that I really hate him now.
simrud
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7/29/2005  7:04 AM
I think this is just reality. Euro leagues are getting better, and they are starting to have more money. At some point they will be able to offer as much as they want.

This is very similar to whats happenin in hockey now. Teams in Russia, where hockey is the number one national sport, can offer much bigger deals to the superstar players then the Americans team under the cap can.

The whole cap system so beloved in American sports is really something unnkown and totally foreign in Europe. Soccer teams never even spokeo of such a thing. And I dout they ever will.

If US leagues want to continue to stay on top, they should do away with all the market control restrictions they have emposed on themselves for the blatant benefit of the owners.

Or they will end up like the automotive industry, protected and babied by tarriffs they have for years put on soft gloves in internal competiton with all kinds of agreements and now are simply not compettive witht he japanese and german manufactureres.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
who was the brain behind removing the third yr guarantee for rookies?

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