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Nate's potential
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firefly
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7/26/2005  5:47 AM
I don't think this has been talked about yet. If I'm wrong, sorry, just lock.

I was reading that some people are taking to calling Nate the JYP (Junkyard Pup), and that got me thinking. What kind of impact will he have on the game? He obviously has huge physical talents, combined with a good outside shot and phenomenal body control. Sorta like Iverson, but stronger. But, much as we want to ignore it, the fact is, he's about 5'7. That means that Iverson has 5" on him, and Iverson aint huge. To put into context, Shaq has 18" on him, Sundov has 19" and Z has 20". Lets not even talk about Yao.

So the question is, can Nate utilize his abilities enough to become a real player in this league, or will he become another JYD, an intangibles guy, useful to change the pace of a game?

I think that what he has, he knows how to use. He's got great court vision, can take anyone off the dribble, and can somehow get his shot off in the paint against the monsters up there. The problem is, he was drafted 21, not 1. If he was drafted 1, he would have the respect first year, and he would at least be given the opportunity to try and be as dominant as AI or Wade. But, being drafted 21 means that people dont feel that they need to give him a shot, and I'm afraid that for the amount of minutes he's going to get, he wont be able to do enough to be given a shot at carrying his team. I think that if Nate got 30+ mpg, he would average 20 ppg - 4-5 apg. But I dont think he will be given that chance.

Thoughts?
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firefly
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7/26/2005  5:49 AM
Oh, and another question. Is Nate a Point Guard (a la Arenas), or a Shooting Guard (a la Iverson)?
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
bernard
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7/26/2005  9:00 AM
Last question first. Nate is a point guard, imo. From what I saw in SL, he had a very good feel for the game and looked to get guys involved. His greatest abilities are his speed on the break and taking guys off the dribble. He didn't force too many shots when doing either. He can finish, which he did plenty, or dish, which he also did plenty.

My main concern about his height is not that he'll get posted up. He's so strong and so low, imo it will be tough for guys to back him in. Plus, when teams try to post up their pg's, it usually screws up their offense, because PG's just aren't that good at it, and everyone else stands around and watches. (Gary Payton and ET are a couple of exceptions to this generalization.)

Where he might have trouble is against a PG who's a good spot up shooter. I'm more worried about him defending a guy who shoots off the pass from 15 to 20. Also, in SL he didn't seem to be very good at defending the pick and roll. His man consistently got free off screens. I can't imagine this being a problem after some good coaching, though, as he's got the athletic ability to fight over screens. In all, don't think he'll give up so many good looks to offset what he brings on the offensive side.

I think he'll be a force, playing 20 mins. a game or so, which is just about right for a rook.
pizza
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7/26/2005  9:03 AM
potential? f that word. nate is the real deal now.
OldFan
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7/26/2005  9:11 AM
Posted by bernard:

Last question first. Nate is a point guard, imo. From what I saw in SL, he had a very good feel for the game and looked to get guys involved. His greatest abilities are his speed on the break and taking guys off the dribble. He didn't force too many shots when doing either. He can finish, which he did plenty, or dish, which he also did plenty.

My main concern about his height is not that he'll get posted up. He's so strong and so low, imo it will be tough for guys to back him in. Plus, when teams try to post up their pg's, it usually screws up their offense, because PG's just aren't that good at it, and everyone else stands around and watches. (Gary Payton and ET are a couple of exceptions to this generalization.)

Where he might have trouble is against a PG who's a good spot up shooter. I'm more worried about him defending a guy who shoots off the pass from 15 to 20. Also, in SL he didn't seem to be very good at defending the pick and roll. His man consistently got free off screens. I can't imagine this being a problem after some good coaching, though, as he's got the athletic ability to fight over screens. In all, don't think he'll give up so many good looks to offset what he brings on the offensive side.

I think he'll be a force, playing 20 mins. a game or so, which is just about right for a rook.

I agree with your assessment that he'll have trouble with jump shooters but it is more then just fighting thru screens. They'll be able to shoot over him. He'll need to disrupt shooters before they get in the air.
Killa4luv
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7/26/2005  9:38 AM
Posted by OldFan:
Posted by bernard:

Last question first. Nate is a point guard, imo. From what I saw in SL, he had a very good feel for the game and looked to get guys involved. His greatest abilities are his speed on the break and taking guys off the dribble. He didn't force too many shots when doing either. He can finish, which he did plenty, or dish, which he also did plenty.

My main concern about his height is not that he'll get posted up. He's so strong and so low, imo it will be tough for guys to back him in. Plus, when teams try to post up their pg's, it usually screws up their offense, because PG's just aren't that good at it, and everyone else stands around and watches. (Gary Payton and ET are a couple of exceptions to this generalization.)

Where he might have trouble is against a PG who's a good spot up shooter. I'm more worried about him defending a guy who shoots off the pass from 15 to 20. Also, in SL he didn't seem to be very good at defending the pick and roll. His man consistently got free off screens. I can't imagine this being a problem after some good coaching, though, as he's got the athletic ability to fight over screens. In all, don't think he'll give up so many good looks to offset what he brings on the offensive side.

I think he'll be a force, playing 20 mins. a game or so, which is just about right for a rook.

I agree with your assessment that he'll have trouble with jump shooters but it is more then just fighting thru screens. They'll be able to shoot over him. He'll need to disrupt shooters before they get in the air.
And he jumps so high, if he bites a fake, it'll be like 2 seconds before he even touches the ground to try and recover, by that time the defense is being broken down. I could see him getting caught in alot of and 1's too like that. And if he doesn't jump, PGs will be shooting like its practice. We'll see how it pans out.
tkf
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7/26/2005  10:05 AM
I think the key for nate is mastering his space, and that is key in basketball, if you can create space to get your shot off the you can score, nate has the quickness,handle and leaping ability to get off a good shot, he is also good so far at crating space. Right now he looks like the fastest player in the league with the ball, keeping up with him is going to be a task for whoever guards him..

Now on the defensive end, someone made the point about him disrupting the shot before it gets in the air, and that is exactly what nate must do, just strongly contest the shot, because in reality, it is hard to block jumpshooters shots comming off good picks, but to disrupt those shots, you can be just as effective...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tapseer
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7/26/2005  10:14 AM
If you're giving him 30 mins a nite, he'll average 20 pts all right, but his percentage will low. I watched him in summer league and yes, the kid can play, but he still needs a high volume of shots to be productive. Also, if he were to play those mins and average those points, I'll guess he'll be in the same boat as Marbury. Marbury though shoots at a higher percentage (46%). For comparison, JC took more shots to average a lower scoring average than Marbury 39% for 17 pts a game. Anither thing about Nate's game is that he didn't have a high average of assists in any SL game. My point is that whatever you want from Nate, the minutes, the shots whatever, you're getting now from Marbury, so is people always giving Marbury the business?
rvhoss
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7/26/2005  11:15 AM
nate is an SG...but they are grooming him to play the point, it's zeke's combo guard philosophy.

Craw is sort of in the same mode, but better PG handle.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 07/26/2005 11:16:54]
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Silverfuel
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7/26/2005  11:49 AM
Posted by rvhoss:

nate is an SG...but they are grooming him to play the point, it's zeke's combo guard philosophy.

Craw is sort of in the same mode, but better PG handle.
well said
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gunsnewing
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7/26/2005  11:59 AM
hey Briggs since you were the guy raving about Nate's play at Washington earlier this year what do you think is his natural position. I don't think you can tell from summerleague if he can run a team or not. Bottomline is he can flat out score so why bother getting everyone but yourself on a summerleague roster the ball. His knack for pushing the ball up the floor alone makes him the best PG on our team imo.

So Briggs how well does he see the court and get guys open looks or does he settle for 3's(like he did in summerleague and seemed to never miss) when he should be passing? I don't see him as a marbury type scorer. more like Iverson who plays at 100% at all times in every aspect of the game. And I think we will see that once the real games start
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