If we can get back two of those three we should still be okay, but after this season I expect to see major, major moves and changes going down.

YA, I agree guys. the yANKEES SUCK. SOX RULE.



YOU'RE SO RIGHT...

If they had a manager that knew how to handle a pen, they would have won Tuesday and Thurday and there would be no need to talk about the pitching.


[Edited by - Rich on 07/24/2005 00:46:13]

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by Knight:

When the season started they had the best starting rotation "potentially"...now it's garbage--that's the problem with "potential".

maybe only to a biased yankee fan.

Do you mean you expected RJ to have a major dropoff from last season, and that you thought the Sox were also wrong about Pavano and shouldn't have offered him more than the Yankees did?

Posted by Rich:

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by Knight:

When the season started they had the best starting rotation "potentially"...now it's garbage--that's the problem with "potential".

maybe only to a biased yankee fan.

Do you mean you expected RJ to have a major dropoff from last season, and that you thought the Sox were also wrong about Pavano and shouldn't have offered him more than the Yankees did?

yes, i thought RJ was shot, and brown was garbage prior to the season.

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by Rich:

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by Knight:

When the season started they had the best starting rotation "potentially"...now it's garbage--that's the problem with "potential".

maybe only to a biased yankee fan.

Do you mean you expected RJ to have a major dropoff from last season, and that you thought the Sox were also wrong about Pavano and shouldn't have offered him more than the Yankees did?

yes, i thought RJ was shot, and brown was garbage prior to the season.

From Cy Young level (his stats were better than Clemens's) to shot? That's not credible.

Who brought up Brown? Um yeah, no one.

[Edited by - Rich on 07/24/2005 01:20:15]

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by Rich:

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by Rich:

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by Knight:

When the season started they had the best starting rotation "potentially"...now it's garbage--that's the problem with "potential".

maybe only to a biased yankee fan.

Do you mean you expected RJ to have a major dropoff from last season, and that you thought the Sox were also wrong about Pavano and shouldn't have offered him more than the Yankees did?

yes, i thought RJ was shot, and brown was garbage prior to the season.

From Cy Young to shot? That's not credible.

Who brought up Brown? Um yeah, no one.

original discussion was talking about their entire rotation... please, you seriously thought RJ would be the same as he was in arizona? lol! have fun having him on the roster the next 2 years. lol

[Edited by - jaydh on 07/24/2005 01:21:45]

ERAs are significantly higher in the AL due to the lack of a DH. I thought he would pitch at a Cy Young level this year, even thoough I was strongly against the trade, and so did every other knowledgeable baseball person.

Add him to what the Sox thought of Pavano, and Mussina, and it's reasonable to think their rotation would be top tier.

If you are a Sox fan, you have to admit that Schilling could suck in the next two years. If you are a Met fan, the same thing is true about Pedro.

Meanwhile, the Yankees' revenue streams will enable the Yankees to be better than either team.

Facts are stubborn things.

This is a Knicks site fellas, Yankees forums are elsewhere. Sayonara please.

Posted by jaydh:


why would you think that? he hasnt been a cy young in several years, and the AL is always more difficult than the NL.

Have you examined his stats from last season?

http://baseball-reference.com/j/johnsra05.shtml

ERA: 2.60 ERA+: 170

If that isn't a Cy Young level, nothing is.

By comparison, Clemens, who won the CYA:

ERA: 2.96 ERA+: 145

RJ just played on a bad team.

Posted by jaydh:

3 guys past thier prime is hardly top tier. and the stats prove it.

Really? How many teams had three better starters going into the season.

Pavano won 18 games last year, and Randy was stellar. Moose has had a near HoF career. Granted Wright and Brown were question marks, but a lot of us wanted Wang in the rotation from before ST.

Posted by jaydh:

yes, i believe schilling is shot also, and pedro is far from being in quite the decline RJ, Mussina, or Brown have experienced. he is several years younger, and a better pitcher than some of them were in their primes.

Pedro used to throw 96 mph. In a lot of his starts this season he doesn't even hit 90. Once he hits 100 pitches, his ERA goes up dramatically. He also has a pre-existing tear in his rotator cuff.

His ERA+ was only 125 last seasaon, the worst it has been since '96.

He had a huge dropoff after the AS break last year:

Pre: ERA: 3.67 Post: ERA: 4.17

Pitching in the NL has really helped him.

That said, I would have preferred signing Pedro for just money than to give up players for RJ. The Yankees could really use Navarro.

Posted by jaydh:

possibly, but there is no denying the mets and red sox have quite a large revenue stream also. i would think the mets and red sox players are more movable due to their age and contracts. just because a team makes more money, doesnt necessarily mean they will be better(duh).

The Yankees have a ton of money coming off their payroll (Bernie, Brown, Tino, Gordon, May (instead of Quantrill). Building a new stadium cancels luxury tax payments.

Stick has regained power over player personnel. The farm system is very strong at the lower levels.

At least you haven't tried to argue that the Sox are a small market team, as some deluded Sox fans often claim.