I disagree.

Larry Brown will/is developing our young talent for the future. It's true, no way he will last 5 years but with 3 years of his coaching, players like Trevor Ariza, Channing Frye and Nate Robinson will be developed and hopefully, we'll have enough pieces to compete. Plus you know we'll a coach in the wings, maybe Herb Williams (yuck!), much like what Dallas did with Avery Johnson learning under Don Nelson.

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by BigAppleStar3:

I disagree.

Larry Brown will/is developing our young talent for the future. It's true, no way he will last 5 years but with 3 years of his coaching, players like Trevor Ariza, Channing Frye and Nate Robinson will be developed and hopefully, we'll have enough pieces to compete. Plus you know we'll a coach in the wings, maybe Herb Williams (yuck!), much like what Dallas did with Avery Johnson learning under Don Nelson.

i understand what you are saying, but if im spending 10+mm I want someone i feel can see it through. If the prize of teaching costs that much and the end result is herb, well.

Briggs, I didn't know you have a majority of shares in Cablevision.

It's one thing to worry about players counting against a cap but now we are concern what he pays his management. I guess you want to take a look at the marketing department or sales department too. How about maintenance. Maybe you should request some financial statements just to be sure.

Larry Brown made the finals three times in the last five years with some very un-Finals looking teams. I don't think it's completely out of the question that Brown can at least get this team to a Finals by year three.

Either way, I think it's essential to have a good defensive teacher for Frye, Ariza, Nate and Lee. Even Crawford. Though I have a weird feeling that Brown coming will mean the end of the Craw experiment.

I feel that this team is not going to compete within the next 3 years one way or another. At least with Brown we will have enjoyable games to watch, where I wount be screaming at the TV because the players just arent playin hard and the coach is makin moronic decisions.

I'd rather spent the next 2-3 years making early playoff exits then in the back end of the lottery gettin the 12-14 pick instead of the 15-18 ones like it really make any difference.

I also think that LB will devlop the young players that are willing to work hard and buy into the system. And if a young player is not willin to learn and work hard, then he is a waste one way or another, at least in my opinion.

Posted by PresIke:

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by BigAppleStar3:

I disagree.

Larry Brown will/is developing our young talent for the future. It's true, no way he will last 5 years but with 3 years of his coaching, players like Trevor Ariza, Channing Frye and Nate Robinson will be developed and hopefully, we'll have enough pieces to compete. Plus you know we'll a coach in the wings, maybe Herb Williams (yuck!), much like what Dallas did with Avery Johnson learning under Don Nelson.

i understand what you are saying, but if im spending 10+mm I want someone i feel can see it through. If the prize of teaching costs that much and the end result is herb, well.

Briggs, I didn't know you have a majority of shares in Cablevision.

It's one thing to worry about players counting against a cap but now we are concern what he pays his management. I guess you want to take a look at the marketing department or sales department too. How about maintenance. Maybe you should request some financial statements just to be sure.

Not to put words in the man's mouth, (I'm only paraphrasing) but I believe he had said recently that his "concern" over LB's salary should make people be quiet about anytime the Knicks are cut off of Cable, or we have to pay exhorbant ticket prices.

Personally, I think this problem is minimal, and goes along with being a fan in NY.

Ask Yankee fans how much prices have gone up since 1996.

I'd like them/us (I'm a Yankee fan...although barely anymore) to ask again after the new Yankee Stadium is built.

you are right on both counts. i think my first post on this kind of made my point. hiring larry brown is fine, but lets go into this with open eyes. we dont need to pay 5 years 50-60 mm--I don't think we should. I think we should pay him the 2nd highest coaches salary for 3 years which is 22.5mm ot 7.5 per+ that in with his 6mm$ buyout, that nearly 10mm a year for 3 years to get us on our way. paying him 5 years 50-60 mm is fiscal irresponsibilty. we always pay the premium and then the *prescient* fan who lauds the move[ah who cares its not my money] then should realize why he doesnt have MSG or his cable bill rises. I say pay him but dont be obnoxious about it.

sorry about being a contrarian. i try to be fair. i dont think being a fan means being a yes man. i also took the *fair* point that i believe we are good enough to qualify for a 7th seed, unlike the last 4 year where i didnt give us much of a chance and was proved correct.

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by PresIke:

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by BRIGGS:

Posted by BigAppleStar3:

I disagree.

Larry Brown will/is developing our young talent for the future. It's true, no way he will last 5 years but with 3 years of his coaching, players like Trevor Ariza, Channing Frye and Nate Robinson will be developed and hopefully, we'll have enough pieces to compete. Plus you know we'll a coach in the wings, maybe Herb Williams (yuck!), much like what Dallas did with Avery Johnson learning under Don Nelson.

i understand what you are saying, but if im spending 10+mm I want someone i feel can see it through. If the prize of teaching costs that much and the end result is herb, well.

Briggs, I didn't know you have a majority of shares in Cablevision.

It's one thing to worry about players counting against a cap but now we are concern what he pays his management. I guess you want to take a look at the marketing department or sales department too. How about maintenance. Maybe you should request some financial statements just to be sure.

Not to put words in the man's mouth, (I'm only paraphrasing) but I believe he had said recently that his "concern" over LB's salary should make people be quiet about anytime the Knicks are cut off of Cable, or we have to pay exhorbant ticket prices.

Personally, I think this problem is minimal, and goes along with being a fan in NY.

Ask Yankee fans how much prices have gone up since 1996.

I'd like them/us (I'm a Yankee fan...although barely anymore) to ask again after the new Yankee Stadium is built.

you are right on both counts. i think my first post on this kind of made my point. hiring larry brown is fine, but lets go into this with open eyes. we dont need to pay 5 years 50-60 mm--I don't think we should. I think we should pay him the 2nd highest coaches salary for 3 years which is 22.5mm ot 7.5 per+ that in with his 6mm$ buyout, that nearly 10mm a year for 3 years to get us on our way. paying him 5 years 50-60 mm is fiscal irresponsibilty. we always pay the premium and then the *prescient* fan who lauds the move[ah who cares its not my money] then should realize why he doesnt have MSG or his cable bill rises. I say pay him but dont be obnoxious about it.

sorry about being a contrarian. i try to be fair. i dont think being a fan means being a yes man. i also took the *fair* point that i believe we are good enough to qualify for a 7th seed, unlike the last 4 year where i didnt give us much of a chance and was proved correct.

I understand your concern, and appreciate the dialogue. I too think that it would be nice to see the Knicks organization exercize some fiscal responsibility. When Lay-down signed Houston to that ridiculous contract we all knew it was even more ridiculous since we were bidding against ourselves.

Why I sympathize with your argument, to the extent that I do, is that I think that by overpaying so often, the Knicks have built a reputation where we may be almost stuck having to overpay almost all of the time. So we miss out on signing guys like SAR or Swift for the MLE, while other teams are able to. Now there may be more to the equation than we can see, being that we are only fans, but it sure seems that way from our vantage point. What is extra-frustrating, is that you would think that being a NY team that we should not have to overpay because of the additional perks (National TV exposure, shoe deals, whatever).

Hey, I'm all for being fair and enjoy reading your posts, despite disagreeing at times. I also agree that fans should not simly be fan-boys, and why you may feel motivated to take the air out of some fans' tires. It's all good, we're all Knick fans anyway.

[Edited by - PresIke on 07/23/2005 11:13:25]

[quote]
Posted by PresIke:

Why I believe BRIGGS argument is flawed:

1) There's no way of knowing how long LB will stay regardless of what we hear in the press about these "health concerns." Maybe it's true, but are we CERTAIN that what we are hearing is reliable information and not just "spin" so that he could get out of Detroit (or other reasons we, average fans, are not aware of)?

2) Even if he stays 2-3 years, who's to say what kind of impact he will have on this squad. When Rick Carlile left after a few seasons on the Pistons, I don't seem to recall the same argument being made then...why because they landed a suitable replacement, as they have again been afforded with Flip Saunders. There is no guarantee that we will have the same luxuary, but there's no way of knowing one way or the other. As of now, I don't see any reliable alternatives out there.

Unless your someone on a jihad against Isiah/Dolan/Anything the Knicks do (most of the time), I find it hard to accept a strong argument here. I read someone on the NY Times Forum write that they were concerned that "The Knicks focused too much attention on Brown ignoring other potential candidates." I'm sorry, are some of us NBA insiders that we are not aware of, who are privy to this kind of information?

No, you get your info from the press....the same cats who told us that, "It's Fratello"...remember that? None of us know WHAT Isiah has been doing. And if we believe what we read and hear in the media, then WE ALL KNOW ISIAH TRIED TO LAND PHIL JACKSON TOO. He's had health problems and is turning 60 next month...Would you be spewing the same line as well if he was our coach?

3) What makes one think that we could "steal" Poppovich from the Spurs? We could get LB because he had problems with management. Are any of us aware of these problems within the Spurs organization?


Baloney--go listen to the dialogue by Joe Dumars--http://www.wxyztv.com/wxyz/sports/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15940_3941005,00.html

Im going to assume that Larry leaving the team to to enter the Mayo Clinic twice for surgery and Joe Dumars telling you that Larry is NOT healthy, then at some point its more than conjecture.

Im not against hiring Larry Brown, but lets see Dolan give him a 3 year contract that INCLUDES the 6mm he got from Detroit. I am against an obnoxious long term contract that he cant possibly fulfill.


I was never really big on the coaching problem. I figured when we have a serious roster that is worth paying a large sum of money for a premium coach-then great. This is a bit of a bait and switch approach with the fans. They are going to be selling something that isnt there.

I still say Brown is the perfect coach for this team - considering the options. I'd would've liked to look at Mike Brown, but I guess he was never an option. Guys like Carlyle and Pops are maybe better coaches with less problems, but they aren't on the market. LB will teach the kids and the vets some D and force guys to play hard. This team needs that.

Wow, somehow I agree with Briggs here. But not completely.

I understand your concerns. When I first found out how much Isiah was planning on giving Brown, it really shocked me how long and how lucrative the deal was for a coach that has some health issues. I really hoped (and still do) that we would offer him at least a shorter deal, or a team option, if that is possible for a coach.

But, I think the impact of Larry Brown will be more significant to this franchise than all the money offered. This is not only a signing to get the Knicks competitive for the next three or five years. This is not only about creating the feeling that the Knicks could contend soon. This is about creating a foundation. This is about finally having a coach so experienced that he will help any player willing to learn how to take their games to the next level. This is about finally giving the Knicks an identity, one that should continue even when Brown retires.

The money may be too much, but we are talking about a great coach here, so I have to understand that. It may be too long for me, but I think that we can take advantage of any time we have with Brown as the coach. And, as many said, it could help Herb too. Herb as an assistant learning from Larry will be great for our future. Herb as the headcoach next season isn't...