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discussed 100x, but i think we need to move marbury to SG
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djsunyc
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7/21/2005  3:11 PM
have craw run the point with a clearly defined role to dribble penetrate and distribute. nothing but midrange jumpers. nate causing havoc off the bench at the point.

and let marbury do what he does best AND score.
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fishmike
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7/21/2005  3:13 PM
the problem with our backcourt right now is size. Q is big but I think with us he's a little better fit for the 3.

Otherwise we what we really have is 3 combo guards in Craw/Marbury/Nate. All 3 are really scorers first and their playmaking comes off their ability to create their own offense.
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TMS
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7/21/2005  3:13 PM
what Marbury does best is breaking down defenses, scoring & distributing to the open man...he is better suited to the PG role imho as long as he's on this team.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
rvhoss
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7/21/2005  3:15 PM
I mean, you don't average 8 assists a year not being a point guard.

all kool aid all the time.
Killa4luv
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7/21/2005  3:16 PM
Posted by TMS:

what Marbury does best is breaking down defenses, scoring & distributing to the open man...he is better suited to the PG role imho as long as he's on this team.
I agree completely.
djsunyc
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7/21/2005  3:18 PM
i think with marbury at the point, and craw at the 2, it actually HURTS craw more - and i see craw here after marbury's gone.

so i guess if we keep marbs at the 1, then craw HAS to come off the bench throughout his tenure here.
bobs3304
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7/21/2005  3:19 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

I mean, you don't average 8 assists a year not being a point guard.

Getting assists and making your teammates better are 2 completely different things.

That said, I'd keep marbury and let Brown work with him.
DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
djsunyc
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7/21/2005  3:22 PM
Posted by fishmike:

Otherwise we what we really have is 3 combo guards in Craw/Marbury/Nate. All 3 are really scorers first and their playmaking comes off their ability to create their own offense.

this is true, and why, imho, i think crawford's skillset would make him a better a "pure" point guard than marbury.

i'm not sure why, but it's a gut feeling.
djsunyc
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7/21/2005  3:23 PM
craw is taller, faster, and has a better handle BUT the more important thing is that i think you can tell craw to stop shooting, and he will. i'm not sure if you can ever get marbury to just stop shooting.

but i guess we'll see this season how he fares with brown.
TMS
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7/21/2005  3:23 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

i think with marbury at the point, and craw at the 2, it actually HURTS craw more - and i see craw here after marbury's gone.

so i guess if we keep marbs at the 1, then craw HAS to come off the bench throughout his tenure here.

that's another issue...i've already stated my stance on the idea of trading Marbs & letting Craw lead this team, so i won't rehash it again here.

i think as long as Marbury is on this team, & now that we have Q, Craw's role is better served as a 6th man off the bench a-la John Starks in the '99 season...i prefer not going into every single game w/a size mismatch at the 2...Craw is more of a combo G anyway...i think he can adapt to the 6th man role alot better than Marbury can adapt to being the starting SG.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
jaydh
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7/21/2005  3:36 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

but i guess we'll see this season how he fares with brown.

wow, i didnt know brown was already hired....
Caseloads
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7/21/2005  3:46 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

craw is taller, faster, and has a better handle BUT the more important thing is that i think you can tell craw to stop shooting, and he will. i'm not sure if you can ever get marbury to just stop shooting.

but i guess we'll see this season how he fares with brown.
i dont know what you guys have been watching, but marbury is a good PG. he makes players better, period. he made amare what he is. not nash. stephon made amare this kid. stephon's problem is that he always sours on teams and things always seem to go wrong around him. things that are totally not his fault.

who is on the knicks to score? marbs tries to get people involved, but he can only do so much here. what the #ell does/did he have? KT? crawford, a pure chucker who never plays defense? Gazy (who i'm not gonna rip)? A fat as he!! Sweets who is 6'6"? No center on the roster after nazr messed up his groin and got traded to the spurs? Bruno Sundov?! Allan Houston rocking Armani and Kenneth Cole suits on the bench? Please. Some minor league scrubs like whoever that scrub PG I. Thomas brought in that looked like chris rock? Jackie "i'm sweetney part 2" Butler? I mean, Ariza was the only bright spot on the team, and he fell to the second round for a reason, mainly because he's a huge project that crazy overperformed this past year, but raw none-the-less. I think we all know that JYD and Malik Rose (6'6" PFs) have reached their ceilings and Mo Taylor flat out sucks. Penny bailed repeatedly on this team and was injured. Funny how the media does not nail Penny for being a wuss.

Now, we have some young, talented kids on this squad - rookies and Q.

Q used to be good, on the Clippers, but has serious back problems at 25. He also was not in a great system for his talents on the Suns, but whatever.

Frye - further away than we all thought. Who knows though, Marbs fed Amare as a rookie like a baby, so let's hope Frye knows how to open up for some Gerber.

Lee - a wild card. Could make TT take a seat if TT is Gazy again this season.

Robinson - exactly the type of player we needed - filled with real serious game and talent and heart to match - only we needed him to be 6'6" or 6'8" - but we'll try and make do with a stud at 5'7" - what other choice do we have?

Anyone disagree? Let me know...
Silverfuel
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7/21/2005  3:53 PM
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by djsunyc:

craw is taller, faster, and has a better handle BUT the more important thing is that i think you can tell craw to stop shooting, and he will. i'm not sure if you can ever get marbury to just stop shooting.

but i guess we'll see this season how he fares with brown.
i dont know what you guys have been watching, but marbury is a good PG. he makes players better, period. he made amare what he is. not nash. stephon made amare this kid. stephon's problem is that he always sours on teams and things always seem to go wrong around him. things that are totally not his fault.

who is on the knicks to score? marbs tries to get people involved, but he can only do so much here. what the #ell does/did he have? KT? crawford, a pure chucker who never plays defense? Gazy (who i'm not gonna rip)? A fat as he!! Sweets who is 6'6"? No center on the roster after nazr messed up his groin and got traded to the spurs? Bruno Sundov?! Allan Houston rocking Armani and Kenneth Cole suits on the bench? Please. Some minor league scrubs like whoever that scrub PG I. Thomas brought in that looked like chris rock? Jackie "i'm sweetney part 2" Butler? I mean, Ariza was the only bright spot on the team, and he fell to the second round for a reason, mainly because he's a huge project that crazy overperformed this past year, but raw none-the-less. I think we all know that JYD and Malik Rose (6'6" PFs) have reached their ceilings and Mo Taylor flat out sucks. Penny bailed repeatedly on this team and was injured. Funny how the media does not nail Penny for being a wuss.

Now, we have some young, talented kids on this squad - rookies and Q.

Q used to be good, on the Clippers, but has serious back problems at 25. He also was not in a great system for his talents on the Suns, but whatever.

Frye - further away than we all thought. Who knows though, Marbs fed Amare as a rookie like a baby, so let's hope Frye knows how to open up for some Gerber.

Lee - a wild card. Could make TT take a seat if TT is Gazy again this season.

Robinson - exactly the type of player we needed - filled with real serious game and talent and heart to match - only we needed him to be 6'6" or 6'8" - but we'll try and make do with a stud at 5'7" - what other choice do we have?

Anyone disagree? Let me know...
good post.
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newyorknewyork
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7/21/2005  4:13 PM
Its not that Marbury is a bad PG. Its more that Crawford is only average at 2 guard. And since Marbury isn't a great outside shooter playing him off the ball and having to guard taller guards aren't going to make Marbury as effective either. Crawford is a PG with potential to be an amazing one with his 6'5 height. By playing him at SG we are losing the huge advantage his height possesses. He had no role last season. Hes had no role his whole NBA career. Because his potential is unlimited so nobody wanted to limit his game. So he should come off the bench as a combo guard which will allow him to use both his skills. Bulls traded him because they didn't want to pay him big money to be a combo guard off the bench. They would rather pay Gordan his rookie contract to be instant offense.

Coming off the bench as a big time scorer or penitrating and dishing and pushing the tempo depending on whats needed or the matchup. The only problem is with Nate we are basically gonna force Crawford to be more of a 2 guard. Unless Nate proves he can hang with 6'5, 6'6, guards. Iverson got away with it and he is as quick and might be stronger though shorter than Iverson. So im not going to say he can't do it, but I got to see him pull it off first.

Rip Hamilton & Hughes were also to thin to play SG but were able to. So maybe Crawford can to. Its a problem that a good system can solve.
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raven
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7/21/2005  4:27 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by djsunyc:

craw is taller, faster, and has a better handle BUT the more important thing is that i think you can tell craw to stop shooting, and he will. i'm not sure if you can ever get marbury to just stop shooting.

but i guess we'll see this season how he fares with brown.
i dont know what you guys have been watching, but marbury is a good PG. he makes players better, period. he made amare what he is. not nash. stephon made amare this kid. stephon's problem is that he always sours on teams and things always seem to go wrong around him. things that are totally not his fault.

who is on the knicks to score? marbs tries to get people involved, but he can only do so much here. what the #ell does/did he have? KT? crawford, a pure chucker who never plays defense? Gazy (who i'm not gonna rip)? A fat as he!! Sweets who is 6'6"? No center on the roster after nazr messed up his groin and got traded to the spurs? Bruno Sundov?! Allan Houston rocking Armani and Kenneth Cole suits on the bench? Please. Some minor league scrubs like whoever that scrub PG I. Thomas brought in that looked like chris rock? Jackie "i'm sweetney part 2" Butler? I mean, Ariza was the only bright spot on the team, and he fell to the second round for a reason, mainly because he's a huge project that crazy overperformed this past year, but raw none-the-less. I think we all know that JYD and Malik Rose (6'6" PFs) have reached their ceilings and Mo Taylor flat out sucks. Penny bailed repeatedly on this team and was injured. Funny how the media does not nail Penny for being a wuss.

Now, we have some young, talented kids on this squad - rookies and Q.

Q used to be good, on the Clippers, but has serious back problems at 25. He also was not in a great system for his talents on the Suns, but whatever.

Frye - further away than we all thought. Who knows though, Marbs fed Amare as a rookie like a baby, so let's hope Frye knows how to open up for some Gerber.

Lee - a wild card. Could make TT take a seat if TT is Gazy again this season.

Robinson - exactly the type of player we needed - filled with real serious game and talent and heart to match - only we needed him to be 6'6" or 6'8" - but we'll try and make do with a stud at 5'7" - what other choice do we have?

Anyone disagree? Let me know...
good post.

Very very good post indeed.
simrud
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7/21/2005  4:36 PM
Its hard to tell who is suited for what because we havent had a good system in place with these players on the team.

Let's see how they look under a good coach who can define roles, actually has a playbook, and gets the team to follow it and execute.

I think Marbury at SG is kinda stupid considering he is one of the best PG's out there. To move him to SG just to POTENTIALLY improve Craw's future is kinda like benching Ward in favor Eisly because the latter could not handle coming of the bench, meanwhile Ward was having a career season, for however short a strech of time that was.

If you look at Craw's salary, its right around Rose's and JYD's, both very good backups. They are overpaid, but since we generally have a higher payroll in NY anyways, I don't see anything wrong with Craw being the 6th man for the rest of career with us.

I think we should start Marbury and Q at the guards, nad bring Craw in for both. However we also need to play Q at SF for a good amount of time so Nate can get enough playin time. This means we really need to get rid of the glut at SF.

Yeah, I said it, glut at SF. Right now we have Fugazy penciled in a starter, and everybody agrees Ariza needs to get major backup minutes. To top it all of, both Rose and JYD can play SF against bigger guys like Dirk, KVH, etc. We really need to get rid of one of these guys, them being TT, Rose, or JYD. This will solve all our playin time issues, at least at 1 2 and 3.

Even the frontcourt situation will be better if we drop one of the PF's since James will not likley to average more then 20 mints a game.

Maybe cuttin Rose is the way to go here, because we really need to get rid of one of these gusy. And Rose has the longest deal. We should really try to peddle him to a team in need of a veteran PF who plays great D and is a good lockerroom presence.

Who is Philly's backup for Webber? Because I remember they traded away like 3 PF's for him. They are way over the cap with Webber, AI, and the immininet signing of Delambert, so they prolly would not care about takin on Rose's deal. Something like Rose for filler and a future 1st round pick would work for me.
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diderotn
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7/21/2005  4:37 PM
Crawfford is not an organize basketball player. He just can't play organize ball, he belongs in an AND1 team. WHY IS MARBURRY SO UNAPPRECIATED? that kid plays his butt off every night....It is not his fault that he has been blessed with poor coaching or poor talents around him.

Posted by newyorknewyork:

Its not that Marbury is a bad PG. Its more that Crawford is only average at 2 guard. And since Marbury isn't a great outside shooter playing him off the ball and having to guard taller guards aren't going to make Marbury as effective either. Crawford is a PG with potential to be an amazing one with his 6'5 height. By playing him at SG we are losing the huge advantage his height possesses. He had no role last season. Hes had no role his whole NBA career. Because his potential is unlimited so nobody wanted to limit his game. So he should come off the bench as a combo guard which will allow him to use both his skills. Bulls traded him because they didn't want to pay him big money to be a combo guard off the bench. They would rather pay Gordan his rookie contract to be instant offense.

Coming off the bench as a big time scorer or penitrating and dishing and pushing the tempo depending on whats needed or the matchup. The only problem is with Nate we are basically gonna force Crawford to be more of a 2 guard. Unless Nate proves he can hang with 6'5, 6'6, guards. Iverson got away with it and he is as quick and might be stronger though shorter than Iverson. So im not going to say he can't do it, but I got to see him pull it off first.

Rip Hamilton & Hughes were also to thin to play SG but were able to. So maybe Crawford can to. Its a problem that a good system can solve.
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simrud
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7/21/2005  4:52 PM
Why does Craw belong in AND1 ????

Because he has got a sick crossover? If he was in AND1 he'd take everybody there to school, but he so much more then a showboater.

Iverson belongs in AND1 too? You arent makin anys sense man.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
diderotn
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7/21/2005  5:02 PM
How long has Craw been in the league??? how many minutes has he played? what is his shooting percentage??? how many wins has he helped his team to garner? I don't give a damn about the sick crossovers, one thing is for sure, AI is a freaking winner. Don't ever compare the two. AI can will a team to victory...he is not affraid of taking it insider, that is despite the fact that he is the smallest player on the court. Crawf is 6'5" and has been getting paid a pretty good salary since his arrival in the league, he has yet to improve his physic....he has not made any improvements to his decision making....Again, I just hope that if Larry is hired, he can help this young kid to harnest his craft. I would love to keep everyone, even TT, but if they can't learn and help improve our team, get rid of them. That goes for Marburry also, if he can't improve his defense and stop the opposing PG from destroying our team, get rid of him.

Posted by simrud:

Why does Craw belong in AND1 ????

Because he has got a sick crossover? If he was in AND1 he'd take everybody there to school, but he so much more then a showboater.

Iverson belongs in AND1 too? You arent makin anys sense man.
The true Knickabocker..........
McK1
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7/21/2005  5:34 PM
1 thing with Craw is that in Chi and here he keeps being paired in the backcourt with another pg. he and Jay Williams then Heinrich now here. When he was traded here I thought he and the team would be better served with him on the bench learning the 1 regardless if Hou was able to go or not. Maybe now this conversion experiment will end and we'll cater to his strengths which are

halfcourt: in the passing game skill finishing and shooting with his feet set and also in transition.

transition: pushing and finding people in good position to score.

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
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discussed 100x, but i think we need to move marbury to SG
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