STEPH'S NO BROWNIE POINT

July 21, 2005 -- THIS is the fun part. This is the easy part. The endgame looms, and so do a few days of certain hand-wringing from Larry Brown, a Hall-of-Fame hand-wringer, and plenty of will-he-or-won't-he speculation. The Knicks are going to throw a big pile of green at Brown, and sheer logic tells you that's going to carry the day, eventually.

When it does, that's when the hard part starts. That's when the ex-point guard who runs the Knicks and the ex-point guard who'll coach them will have to have some long, hard discussions about the present point guard who plays for the Knicks.

And that dialogue will not be pretty.

Because Isiah Thomas is already on record vehemently denying that he will ever shop around Stephon Marbury, his neighbor, his protege, and the signature acquisition of his tenure to date - at least until Brown affixes his signature to the bottom of a contract.

And Larry Brown was just as adamant about his opinion of Marbury, if you judged by the way he so often squirmed last summer watching Marbury conduct his business at the Olympics in Athens, if you judge by the kind of point guard that has thrived under Brown through the years, a category that can best be described thusly:

AntiSteph.

Brown is the new savior, Marbury the old one. In a collision of this magnitude, new beats old every time. Which means if and when Brown does assume control of the Knicks' reins, Marbury will have to completely transform himself if he wishes to keep playing for his hometown team. And since Marbury has steadfastly refused to change his ways for anyone, there's only one place the smart money can be on this one.



"Steph is going to say all the right things about playing for Coach Brown, because Steph will tell you anything you want to hear if it benefits Steph," a former Marbury teammate told me yesterday. "But if anyone thinks that marriage is going to work, well, they've never played with Steph, or coached him."

They tried this once before, after all, to dreadful returns. Brown tried warming to Marbury last summer. Marbury tried to do the same. For a while, it yielded a lot of happy talk and optimism. The very first day the two of them worked together, Brown took Marbury aside and gave him a pointed lecture.

"A point guard's education is never finished," Brown told Marbury. "The day you stop learning how to play the position is the day you stop being able to play the position."

Marbury, in kind, spoke as if he'd been visited by a shaman.

"All he wants me to do is win," Marbury said in Athens. "He said that's the point guard's biggest stat line. Did you win the basketball game or not? That's all that should matter."

Of course, what Brown got was an eyeful, and rarely was it pretty. Marbury had his moments, but mostly they were Marbury moments: hot-shooting nights, lots of strong moves to the basket. But he also had a lot of desultory nights, including the Olympic opener, when NBA journeyman Carlos Arroyo used and abused him all game long.

In one of Brown's many state-of-the-game addresses in Greece, you didn't need a decoder to understand who the target of this particular rant was:

"It's not easy for these guys. A lot of these young people have never been coached, never sat on the bench, never assumed a role on a team other than the guy that scores the ball and gets the shots. It can be an education for a lot of people."

It's too late in the game for Brown to teach a 28-year-old All-Star how to be a point guard. Brown point guards all play the game, in various degrees, like Brown used to: heady, gritty, pass-first, tough defense.

In other words, AntiSteph.

Thomas has already made clear that he wants Brown, and that is the smart play. You don't have to have put in 30 years as a shameless Brown acolyte to recognize the brilliance in bringing him home. Or to see that another choice will soon have to follow the signing of the contract. And soon.

http://www.nypost.com/sports/knicks/50572.htm

One important thing you said is that both AI and billups were high scoring guards. I would dare to say that nothingnthey accomplisged as PG couldn't be done by steph.

I'm sure that it *could* work, I just don't know if it will.

Seems like pieces are falling into pieces for the better or worst.

Steph has rarely been well coached, rarely had he good environement (spelling ?) around him.

IT has a lot to prove and up to date, has done a lot of things that should be taking us in the good direction but hasn't quite worked yet, maybe because of simple inertia.

Brown has a way to fulfill his dream of coaching the knicks, an organisation that is trying to do something big, whatever the judgement you have on it.

We'll either skyrocket or go down in flames. There will be no in between.

Good article. Good posts.

I only feel more than ever - go for it. Bring in LB. He's not afraid of creative tension and he uses it productively. He ends up burning himself out but he produces great stuff along the way. it's just his style, his temperament. I don't hear him complaining about working things that way.

Steph's known as a guy who wears out his welcome as well. But unlike Larry, Steph's teams improve AFTER he's with them, not during. WHat a great opportunity to change all that.

And btw one thing i think the writer got wrong - i bet LB's quote was actually in refernece to Lebron and Carmelo.

The way I see it, if Marbury is not on board, then throw him into the water and let him drown. Who cares, if doesnt want to play within a system and learn from one of the best coaghes ever, then its truly time to get rid of him.

That article was an interesting perspective. Here we all thought it was Steph-Larry Lovefest in Greece but othter than stephs big scoring game it seems otherwise.

Steph is very guarded about his Oscar Robertson numbers of 20 and 8!

His HOF number is at 109, which is not far given his age, but he might have to give up some personal goals for the team. Lets put it this way, I don't think he gets in being a stat hog if is legacy is not as a winner!

If you got Isiah and Larry riding your back you either get with program and accept the greatness that surrounds you, or get traded.

I can grant all his previous attidude to immaturity, but if he has the best mentors in Isiah and Larry that both money and legacy can buy, then its his character to either accept it, or forever be labeled as a selfish player, a loser, and perhaps an idiot for not listening. But a wealthy one!

Colin Cowherd on 1050 ESPN radio just ranted about how Marbury is a "loser" and a coach killer. He guarantees Marbury will be gone when Brown starts coaching. He claims thats the best thing that can happen cause you cannot win with Stephon. I hate people that say stuff just to get attention. He strikes me as one of them.

OK, i lied...Chris Russo is the most annoying & clueless...but Cowherd's a close 2nd.

Its always caos in New York. You can't have something good happen, or about to, before some writers make articles about how nothing will work out, etc. I think things are seen in a specific way in order to make the article work, like for example the quote. Maybe Brown was refering to Marbury, but I remember how good he talked about him for changing his way of playing for the good of the team.

But lets not forget something: we are talking about Brown coaching a team with Steph as the point guard of a group that has many players better than him. Of course you will not want Marbury to play like he does because the team you have doesn't asks him to. And also, lets not forget that we are talking about international basketball here, where pointguards should penetrate and dish to the outside or take threes, being a great outside-shooter. Brown sure would've loved to have a different point guard then, because we know Marbury's style of play is not exactly that one. Its also known that Marbury isn't the greatest defender, but Brown could'nt help that on little time. With him for many seasons, Im sure Stephs defense will improve.

The truth is that as many have already stated, Larry's guards haven't been exactly "pure" point guards. But they don't need to, and thats what the article fails to state. They didn't mention Billups or Iverson because it had to be "the-sky-is-falling" article. Brown loves to reclaim project teams and turn them to winners.

What a great way to end his career than to transform a point guard that, like him, loves New York* so much into a great player, into the winner he can be if people just gave him a chance rather than immediately trading him...

*-correction

[Edited by - KnicksFan on 07/21/2005 11:09:44]

[quote]
Posted by diderotn:

If I were Zeke, I would have made sure to take Marb with me during the visit with Brown. He had the priviledge to play for Brown during the Olympics and could show him how much he would love to be coached by him once again. As Marburry, I would have expressed the same sentiment that you have expressed below to both Brown and Zeke


[quote]

Maybe Marbs can meet them in the hamptons the the three of them can take a nice walk on the beach and talk about the future.

Foot prints in the sand..........

If Brown is hired there is a very good chance that Steph will be gone by the trading deadline.