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Some analysis on Walker and Sweetney
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BRIGGS
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7/21/2005  5:09 PM
Posted by oohah:

[quote]It would be very expensive for the Knicks, not just what they will have to give up--picks player taking on blount, and the overpayment to walker , but also in the prize we get an additionally whammy of his chemistry breaking play at the expense of players we can develop.
Certainly a destructive deal IF we do it.

Pray tell, what is this chemistry the Knicks have that Antoine Walker would be breaking? The last time the Knicks had any real chemistry Isiah traded Van Horn.

Also, if we do get Larry Brown, do you think he will want to go to war with the front line we have?

I don't think so.

oohah



i wouldnt worry about our frontline, i would wory about marbury, i mean its right out there in public--doesnt sound like brown is very fond of him. im sure that IF brown coaches this year he will understand there is no scenario that puts us past Miami Indiana Detroit at this time, so lets play with the cards we have and look for a better hand down the line a bit. Good hands show themselves, but we must have enough chips to play. if we spew our chip load here, then we are stuck
RIP Crushalot😞
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jaydh
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7/21/2005  5:13 PM
Posted by oohah:

You don't run a playoff team through a stupid player. He does make stupid moves at times, he is not without his pitfalls.

i think you said it right there for me. hes still doing stupid things(a lot) at the age of 29. i dont see him as someone who will change his game and start playing inside more and posting up. he'll do what he wants, shooting those 3s 5 feet behind the line.
oohah
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7/21/2005  5:25 PM
i wouldnt worry about our frontline, i would wory about marbury, i mean its right out there in public--doesnt sound like brown is very fond of him. im sure that IF brown coaches this year he will understand there is no scenario that puts us past Miami Indiana Detroit at this time, so lets play with the cards we have and look for a better hand down the line a bit. Good hands show themselves, but we must have enough chips to play. if we spew our chip load here, then we are stuck

You said some things I agree with! I agree with the part about not using all your chips too soon.

But I would rather talk about what is likely to happen:

1)I think Brown would love to shove it to the Pistons, as unlikely as that may be.
2)He is old and unhealthy so he isn't going to wait for the team to mature like a fine Tennessee sour mash.
3)Third, he has always been restless.

I don't think he will be realistic. Why should he anyway? He'll be gone in three years tops.

So I don't believe Brown will force Marbury out because he needs a star to win with. I think he will want AW or SAR because he doesn't want a front line of only bench players and rookies.
i think you said it right there for me. hes still doing stupid things(a lot) at the age of 29. i dont see him as someone who will change his game and start playing inside more and posting up. he'll do what he wants, shooting those 3s 5 feet behind the line.

I don't think I did. We can reel off the names of plenty of better players older, younger, and the same age who have done dumber things both on and off the court. There ain't no perfect player at any age. I prefer Walker's high risk, high reward style of play--with remarkably consistent numbers from year to year, to the mediocrity we have right now.

oohah


Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Bonn1997
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7/21/2005  6:20 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by oohah:

[quote]It would be very expensive for the Knicks, not just what they will have to give up--picks player taking on blount, and the overpayment to walker , but also in the prize we get an additionally whammy of his chemistry breaking play at the expense of players we can develop.
Certainly a destructive deal IF we do it.

Pray tell, what is this chemistry the Knicks have that Antoine Walker would be breaking? The last time the Knicks had any real chemistry Isiah traded Van Horn.

Also, if we do get Larry Brown, do you think he will want to go to war with the front line we have?

I don't think so.

oohah



i wouldnt worry about our frontline, i would wory about marbury, i mean its right out there in public--doesnt sound like brown is very fond of him. im sure that IF brown coaches this year he will understand there is no scenario that puts us past Miami Indiana Detroit at this time, so lets play with the cards we have and look for a better hand down the line a bit. Good hands show themselves, but we must have enough chips to play. if we spew our chip load here, then we are stuck
I have seen no evidence that Brown has a problem with Marbury; the media just says he does. There is a difference between the two. You can't believe everything the media tells you Briggs
BRIGGS
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7/22/2005  1:01 AM
[
I have seen no evidence that Brown has a problem with Marbury; the media just says he does. There is a difference between the two. You can't believe everything the media tells you Briggs
[/quote]

Another challenge for Brown -- if he takes the job -- will be to coexist with point guard Stephon Marbury after they clashed on the 2004 U.S. Olympic men's basketball team that finished a disappointing third in Athens.

Brown always has preferred his point guards to act as offensive initiators rather than scorers, but Marbury's style of play was at odds with Brown's philosophy.

``We've basically been trying to just pass, pass, pass to the point where we've been overpassing, because we're trying to play the right way, the way our coach wants to play,'' Marbury said upon his arrival in Belgrade after the U.S. team struggled in tuneup games against Italy and Germany. ``But there has to -- there's going to be -- a break-off, where we're just going to have to take those shots that we normally take and make.''

When those comments were relayed to Brown later that day in lobby bar of the Belgrade Hyatt, the coach was so incensed that he stormed off to his room before sending assistant coach Gregg Popovich back downstairs to locate a copy of the story containing Marbury's quote
RIP Crushalot😞
Caseloads
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7/22/2005  1:46 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

[
I have seen no evidence that Brown has a problem with Marbury; the media just says he does. There is a difference between the two. You can't believe everything the media tells you Briggs

Another challenge for Brown -- if he takes the job -- will be to coexist with point guard Stephon Marbury after they clashed on the 2004 U.S. Olympic men's basketball team that finished a disappointing third in Athens.

Brown always has preferred his point guards to act as offensive initiators rather than scorers, but Marbury's style of play was at odds with Brown's philosophy.

``We've basically been trying to just pass, pass, pass to the point where we've been overpassing, because we're trying to play the right way, the way our coach wants to play,'' Marbury said upon his arrival in Belgrade after the U.S. team struggled in tuneup games against Italy and Germany. ``But there has to -- there's going to be -- a break-off, where we're just going to have to take those shots that we normally take and make.''

When those comments were relayed to Brown later that day in lobby bar of the Belgrade Hyatt, the coach was so incensed that he stormed off to his room before sending assistant coach Gregg Popovich back downstairs to locate a copy of the story containing Marbury's quote

[/quote]
hmm. i dont know man - there is going to be a lot of behind the scenes stuff happenning this season. either the knicks are gonna sink or swim and that's life.
Bonn1997
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7/22/2005  7:44 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

[
I have seen no evidence that Brown has a problem with Marbury; the media just says he does. There is a difference between the two. You can't believe everything the media tells you Briggs

Another challenge for Brown -- if he takes the job -- will be to coexist with point guard Stephon Marbury after they clashed on the 2004 U.S. Olympic men's basketball team that finished a disappointing third in Athens.

Brown always has preferred his point guards to act as offensive initiators rather than scorers, but Marbury's style of play was at odds with Brown's philosophy.

``We've basically been trying to just pass, pass, pass to the point where we've been overpassing, because we're trying to play the right way, the way our coach wants to play,'' Marbury said upon his arrival in Belgrade after the U.S. team struggled in tuneup games against Italy and Germany. ``But there has to -- there's going to be -- a break-off, where we're just going to have to take those shots that we normally take and make.''

When those comments were relayed to Brown later that day in lobby bar of the Belgrade Hyatt, the coach was so incensed that he stormed off to his room before sending assistant coach Gregg Popovich back downstairs to locate a copy of the story containing Marbury's quote

[/quote]
That's interesting. There are no quotes from Brown, though. Even if the claim about him being incensed is true, I'm sure he's been incensed at times with Billups, Iverson, and other players. It doesn't mean he wants them traded.
Marv
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7/22/2005  8:30 AM
Posted by oohah:
Stats are good.
Vibes are good too. SOmetimes they're called intangibles. Sometimes they're called leadership qualities, heart, on-court presence, body language. Decision-making, court smarts, basketball IQ.

They're both valuable and complimentary parts of evaluating players.

To me, a guy like Walker is downgraded because of the vibes or intangibles. To me they detract a lot from his game and make me not want him on the Knicks.

Can't always measure it in numbers, but doesn't mean it's not there.

Marv, What is it that is so bad about Antoine Walker? Sure, he comes off very c0cky. And I have nevr liked him either. But could it be that he is the type of guy you love when he is on your team and hate when he is on the other team.

As far as I can tell, he was the leader of the Celtics team that got to its highest potential in recent years. Pierce was the best player, Walker was the heart. And the fans in Boston hated the Walker trade to the Mavs and it was a veritable love-in when he returned.

I think it is a credit to AW's basketball IQ that he was essentially made point guard for a few years in Boston and had better point guard numbers than Charlie Ward. You don't run a playoff team through a stupid player. He does make stupid moves at times, he is not without his pitfalls.

Maybe It's because so many of us hated Walker in the first place that no one can see him here. I'll bet everyone would love to see Paul Pierce though.

oohah

Here's my deal with AW - When i watch him play, i see a combination of what i don't like in TT and Craw. He gets too cutesy when he should get focused and efficient. He tries to do too much himself, presses the issue beyond what his skills can provide. I see AW as I do a lot of guys in the league, that they hurt themselves by trying too hard to be like Mike. Mike was one of a kind but i think a lot of players saw his approach as setting the bar that they had to pursue. A guy liek Walker has a lot of finesse skills that he should call upon when he needs to AUGMENT a solid game of basketball. I've seen him in his career gradually work this equation more and more in the wrong direction. He was much more solid his first few yesrs, and used his fancy stuff to spice his game. IMO over the years he's reversed that, and that's why I now call him a bad-vibe guy, in the same way that TT is and I hope to hell that Craw reverses, because he's got the potential of going there too.
Some analysis on Walker and Sweetney

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