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NY Daily News: Thomas follows the Miami Heat plan
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Rich
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7/18/2005  3:00 PM
To me, this article demonstrates that Isiah doesn't have a plan.
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metra
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7/18/2005  3:15 PM
While for the most part I like what Isiah is doing, I dunno how you guys dont see that Isiah is an amazing politician.

His deceptive smile, his (most of the time) calm and soothing voice, and his charisma all play to control whoever is listening.

I agree 100% with simrud. Empty promises are a politicans best tool. What is even the point of this article to real Knicks fans? We all had our own opinions about what Isiah is doing before this article came out. Nothing in the article is new. Why should Isiah's own koolaid talk change anything about how we have felt on the oganization?

Unfortunately, this thread is already 2 pages long and some fans are jumping for the joy because of a great conference by a great politician. Although I like what Isiah is doing (JJ was our only option, MoT is one of very few bad moves) I like to judge his decisions through results, not through his appeasing smile at the news conference.
Knicksfan
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7/18/2005  3:26 PM
As stated in the article, Isiah and the Knicks believe they can still develope James into a better center. Whether that happens remains to be seen, but its a good gamble since he is a center. James isn't 35, he has yet to have his 30th birthday. Ha paid a lot for him? Yeah, it looks that way, but we'll see how it works out. If James becomes a decent center, his contract will look decent compared to the ones od Foyle, Dampier.

Mo Taylor, i didn't like this deal, but Isiah did. He may believe that Mo T still has some untapped potential, and althought it may not look that way, he may be right. His contract isn't that long, and he becomes our post up scorer if/when we trade Sweetney. The Mo T deal was all about talent. He is more talented than what we traded away.
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rvhoss
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7/18/2005  3:29 PM
he's now entering his SECOND FULL SEASON as GM.

if what he has done (two questionable moves?) is a sign of optimism, then you guys just won't be happy until we win a championship.

This is to be his SECOND FULL SEASON...for crying out loud (and for most of you, pun intended) what did you really expect to happen in the last 1.5 years?

And you can honestly say you don't see any positives heading into the next 2 years (which would COMPLETE his first 3 years on the job).

WHile I like to see through my rose colored glasses...you guys are pretty strange.


all kool aid all the time.
rvhoss
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7/18/2005  3:35 PM
MoT will be a player next year, or he will be gone, and whatever he morphs into (via trade) will be better

he's been on the roster for what, the final 27 games (Feb 26-April 20).

Led Knicks in rebounding three times (in the 27 games)
Had eight 10+ scoring games and one 10+ rebound effort.

Now, I'm not saying he's worth $9 million, but keep saying it was a stupid trade, and then when the season starts, if he is on the team still, it was for a reason.

He is one of the best post up options on the team, and, in his short stay on a team going nowhere, he put in the effort...van gundy liked his game in Houston enough to sign him, and traded him only because...sht, maybe he wanted the fan favorite norris back in houston and like vin's contract?

If Houston does something with Norris and Vin, then we can say that those two were valuable assets to part with, but in my mind, we traded to useless players for someone that will be ablet o contribute.

You can't always trade for low paid all stars, but a trade that matches salaries and unloads to losers is a trade that is a wash in my book, not a NEGATIVE for the knicks.

I mean, did houston make out better than us?

Until the Rockets turn water (norris/baker) into wine (starter atleast?) this trade was a wash.

all kool aid all the time.
newyorknewyork
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7/18/2005  3:40 PM
Just because he made 2 moves that didn't go with the complete rebuild mode doesn't mean his plan isn't to rebuild.

We have 8 players out of 16 25yrs and younger. 2(Penny Thomas) of the remaining 8 are about to come off the cap this season. Another 1(Houston) of the 8 is about to get cut from the roster. And another 2(JYD Taylor) of those players of the 8 will come off the cap the following season. Plus we would probably cut Rose next yr to save money from the tax. And while Penny & Thomas come off the books we would be adding another 2 draft picks in next yrs draft under 25.

Im not the type to hang on every single word Isiah speaks. Because I actually see something forming.
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JUNKMEIN
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7/18/2005  4:32 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Just because he made 2 moves that didn't go with the complete rebuild mode doesn't mean his plan isn't to rebuild.

We have 8 players out of 16 25yrs and younger. 2(Penny Thomas) of the remaining 8 are about to come off the cap this season. Another 1(Houston) of the 8 is about to get cut from the roster. And another 2(JYD Taylor) of those players of the 8 will come off the cap the following season. Plus we would probably cut Rose next yr to save money from the tax. And while Penny & Thomas come off the books we would be adding another 2 draft picks in next yrs draft under 25.

Im not the type to hang on every single word Isiah speaks. Because I actually see something forming.

Thank you thank you. What you have said sums up all of this drama queen stuff. In fact I don't think anyone can come up with a sane and logical rebuke to what you've said. It just flat out makes sense.

Simrud: I'd appreciate if you could help me to grasp your position on this. Please take a little of your time to educate me on the points that NewYorkNewYork has put forth....because i'm just not getting what you're trying to convey.

Metra: With all due respect let's just say you're only speaking for yourself. Now I don't know about you but I have complete control over my faculties and I cannot speak of any reaction remotely close to "soothing" in reference to Isiah's quote unquote calm voice. Speaking only for myself, my heart doesn't palpitate when Isiah smiles and I don't go into a transitory state when he tries any kind of so-called jedi mind trick on the listener.

Help me to understand.
sebstar
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7/18/2005  5:04 PM
He is just sayin what people want to hear. He is a politician, he is best at empty promises. A snake is what he is.

Lol…the tenor of the article, or at least that snippet, was that Isaiah was saying things that a majority of fans DIDN’T want to hear. (I.E the dreaded word: rebuilding). Either you are not that bright, or you are just one of those PH’ers whose reflex is to criticize everything Isaiah. Fall back.

The Mo Taylor move was a questionable trade for sure, but I don’t understand why it has become the lightening rod it has. I guess Isiah’s reasoning was that he was giving away useless junk (basketball wise; good people), and in return was getting an offensive minded, although overpriced PF, who would look good coming off the bench. People act as if he traded Ariza, Sweetney, and multiple #1’s for Mike Finley or Eddie Jones. How does that trade so violently conflict with rebuilding? Talent upgrade.



My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
metra
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7/18/2005  5:07 PM
Oh please, its hard not to think Isiah's lying whenever he opens his mouth. The guy is a sweet talker, a used car salesman, a mayor quimby. Dont get me wrong, I like him for his style but its hard not to laugh whenever he goes on one of his spiels. I can't take him seriously, hes such a conman. I could see him wheelin and dealin on the phone 24/7 pulling off what seemed to be impossible deals (which, in 20/20 hindsight, were always better for the other team). He masterfully plays the crowd with his charm.

Although I can't ask for a better GM, i dont think I can take listening to any more of him. Just use your jedi mind tricks on other GM's, Isiah.
simrud
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7/18/2005  5:20 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He is just sayin what people want to hear. He is a politician, he is best at empty promises. A snake is what he is.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lol…the tenor of the article, or at least that snippet, was that Isaiah was saying things that a majority of fans DIDN’T want to hear. (I.E the dreaded word: rebuilding). Either you are not that bright, or you are just one of those PH’ers whose reflex is to criticize everything Isaiah. Fall back.

The Mo Taylor move was a questionable trade for sure, but I don’t understand why it has become the lightening rod it has. I guess Isiah’s reasoning was that he was giving away useless junk (basketball wise; good people), and in return was getting an offensive minded, although overpriced PF, who would look good coming off the bench. People act as if he traded Ariza, Sweetney, and multiple #1’s for Mike Finley or Eddie Jones. How does that trade so violently conflict with rebuilding? Talent upgrade.



Are you dumb or are you just pretending? Who cares what the article was suggesting. I was referring to IT's words.

And as for the Mo trade, apparently the concept of givin up expiring contracts and a 2nd round pick for an overpaid career underachiever who plays no D historically and is a below averager rebounder is awesome. Give me one solid reason Taylor is on this team, especially when we have 26 billion other PFs!
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
TheloniusMonk
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7/18/2005  5:54 PM
Posted by simrud:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
He is just sayin what people want to hear. He is a politician, he is best at empty promises. A snake is what he is.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lol…the tenor of the article, or at least that snippet, was that Isaiah was saying things that a majority of fans DIDN’T want to hear. (I.E the dreaded word: rebuilding). Either you are not that bright, or you are just one of those PH’ers whose reflex is to criticize everything Isaiah. Fall back.

The Mo Taylor move was a questionable trade for sure, but I don’t understand why it has become the lightening rod it has. I guess Isiah’s reasoning was that he was giving away useless junk (basketball wise; good people), and in return was getting an offensive minded, although overpriced PF, who would look good coming off the bench. People act as if he traded Ariza, Sweetney, and multiple #1’s for Mike Finley or Eddie Jones. How does that trade so violently conflict with rebuilding? Talent upgrade.



Are you dumb or are you just pretending? Who cares what the article was suggesting. I was referring to IT's words.

And as for the Mo trade, apparently the concept of givin up expiring contracts and a 2nd round pick for an overpaid career underachiever who plays no D historically and is a below averager rebounder is awesome. Give me one solid reason Taylor is on this team, especially when we have 26 billion other PFs!

Ask yourself that question when a trade goes down and some of the forwards are gone.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
TheloniusMonk
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7/18/2005  6:02 PM
Posted by simrud:

If you are building you do not trade for Mo Taylor, you do not get Jerome James, and you certainly start your 8th lottery pick.

How can anybody be so naive?

The concept that I don't think you're grasping is sometimes you don't TOTALLY rebuild. Sometimes you do. When you're failing to understand is that there is more than one way. People use the word "rebuild" and just think gutting everything out to the point where everyone is young and we're the worst team in the league for as long as it takes to get under the cap and HOPE Yao Ming comes here or whoever else. There is something called 'rebuilding on the fly'. This is a different concept. And on top of that there is no ONE WAY to even do that. Every situation is unique. Every team is unique. Every city is unique. Every organization is unique. Every OWNER is unique. It kills me how people use ONE example of rebuilding and then use ONE example of rebuilding on the fly and try to either hold a gm to one or the other. Do your research and you'll find that the rebuilding process has many many many different angles. If there was one way to do both every GM in the world would use that blue print and there would be a different champ every year instead of 3 in the past 10 years.
'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!' -Tony Yayo
sebstar
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7/18/2005  6:42 PM
Are you dumb or are you just pretending? Who cares what the article was suggesting. I was referring to IT's words.

And as for the Mo trade, apparently the concept of givin up expiring contracts and a 2nd round pick for an overpaid career underachiever who plays no D historically and is a below averager rebounder is awesome. Give me one solid reason Taylor is on this team, especially when we have 26 billion other PFs!

Great ---go ahead and inject every thread with hyperbole and nonsense no matter the context or the topic...Please, dont let me stop you, that turn-off-your-brain approach has worked well for our Commander-in-Chief, so what do I know. Critical thinking can be overrated.

But you’re right. We gave up a ~ second round pick ~ *gasp* …that is indisputable proof that Isiah’s commitment to getting younger is all a Dirty LIE!!!!!!!! I’ve been Bamboozled.

Listen, Moochie Norris and Vin Baker were not going to net us Kobe Bryant, contracts expiring or not. Again, it’s a questionable deal, but I suppose that Isiah wanted an offensive minded PF to go along with his glut of Defense oriented PF‘s.. .i.e, couldn’t spit in the ocean off of a rowboat ---much less hit a jumper types like JYD, Malik Rose..ext

All of your histrionics are not going to make the deal worse than it was.




My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
Bonn1997
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7/18/2005  7:09 PM
Posted by metra:

Oh please, its hard not to think Isiah's lying whenever he opens his mouth. The guy is a sweet talker, a used car salesman, a mayor quimby. Dont get me wrong, I like him for his style but its hard not to laugh whenever he goes on one of his spiels. I can't take him seriously, hes such a conman.
That's what you want from a GM. I don't want a GM whose honest, entire plan is laid out for the media. I'd rather have a GM whose word to the media may or may not be truthful
Bonn1997
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7/18/2005  7:13 PM
Posted by sebstar:
He is just sayin what people want to hear. He is a politician, he is best at empty promises. A snake is what he is.

Lol…the tenor of the article, or at least that snippet, was that Isaiah was saying things that a majority of fans DIDN’T want to hear. (I.E the dreaded word: rebuilding). Either you are not that bright, or you are just one of those PH’ers whose reflex is to criticize everything Isaiah. Fall back.

The Mo Taylor move was a questionable trade for sure, but I don’t understand why it has become the lightening rod it has. I guess Isiah’s reasoning was that he was giving away useless junk (basketball wise; good people), and in return was getting an offensive minded, although overpriced PF, who would look good coming off the bench. People act as if he traded Ariza, Sweetney, and multiple #1’s for Mike Finley or Eddie Jones. How does that trade so violently conflict with rebuilding? Talent upgrade.
Great post. I agree that the Taylor deal was a poor deal, but I don't think it killed the franchise like most fans did.

Minor correction, Sim: Zero expiring contracts were given up in the deal. Vin's and Moochie's would eventually expire a season before Mo's, though. An overlooked positive consequence of the thrade is that the roster spot created by the trade did allow us to sign Jackie Butler. (That's still not enough to justify the trade, though, when Moochie or Vin could have been bought out to free up that roster spot.)
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