I love Isiah's passion and all, but he's so full of ****.

You don't bring in a 29 y/o Center, and have a bench comprised mostly of veteran PF's in the last years of their career, and have your best player nearing 30.......and have the right to say you're rebuilding.

If Isiah trades Marbury and Rose, and continues to stockpile draft picks and young talent ----- THEN he's rebuilding. Otherwise, he needs to stop opening his ****in mouth about this ****. It's starting to bug the hell outta me. He says one thing, and does another.

IM smacking this cause he wasted last year trying t defy gravity and acomplish both winning and rebuilding at the same time!

I think the Jerome James signing makes it clear that he hasn't changed plans and is stil rebuilding while trying to win now as well.

you rebuild with vets and young guys - see indy.

agreed; I think JYD and Malik are the perfect vets to have around the young guys. I'm not sure yet about Mo and Jerome.

He is just sayin what people want to hear. He is a politician, he is best at empty promises. A snake is what he is.

i'd add, don't get greedy folks. players almost 30, or will be thirty soon, whatever, it's not the end of the world. guys still have productive years and can still be in their prime in their early 30's. teams built entirely on rookies and guys under 25/26 are doomed.

Posted by simrud:

He is just sayin what people want to hear. He is a politician, he is best at empty promises. A snake is what he is.

Isiah could make a trade and bring KG in to NY while we still had our core guys, and he could get us to the finals where we win in 7 at the garden while the knicks city dancers give lap dances and more to season ticket holders and after all of that......

....you'll still be mad that it took us 7 games to win it all, and that you couldn't take one of the knicks city dancers home with you.

Posted by Caseloads:

Posted by bobs3304:

I love Isiah's passion and all, but he's so full of ****.

You don't bring in a 29 y/o Center, and have a bench comprised mostly of veteran PF's in the last years of their career, and have your best player nearing 30.......and have the right to say you're rebuilding.

If Isiah trades Marbury and Rose, and continues to stockpile draft picks and young talent ----- THEN he's rebuilding. Otherwise, he needs to stop opening his ****in mouth about this ****. It's starting to bug the hell outta me. He says one thing, and does another.

you rebuild with vets and young guys - see indy.

Case you're the voice of wisdom.

No team has made it back just by stockpiling draft picks, unless you considered the clipps or the bulls a success.

You gain ground with a good mix on promising youngs (we got them now) and good vets (we definitly have some).

JJ is still better than any center we had since ewing. And yes, I do think he's better than nazr, or at elast has the skills to be.
JJ is not the end of the road, just a step to help us get closer.

all good stuff...sorry for the bolds, but wanted to emphasize points discussed on this board

link: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/329136p-281317c.html

Article:
Isiah seeking Heat wave
BY FRANK ISOLA
DAILY NEWS SPORTS WRITER
Monday, July 18th, 2005

MINNEAPOLIS - When Isiah Thomas recently addressed season-ticket subscribers about the current state of the Knicks and his vision for the future, he became so passionate he inadvertently uttered a few profanities. Those raw emotional displays are not uncommon for the man who is quick to remind anyone that his West Side of Chicago upbringing can flare up now and again.
But on that afternoon, perhaps most shocking of all was that Thomas laced his speech with a seven-letter verb that is allegedly the dirtiest word in the New York sports fan's dictionary.

Rebuild.

Yes, the president of the Knicks talked openly about rebuilding. And no, lightning didn't strike him. The roof at Madison Square Garden didn't collapse and no one canceled his ticket plan. In fact, people applauded.

"Everyone says if you try to rebuild in New York it will be a death sentence," Thomas would say later. "Everyone says that except the fans, the ones who pay and come to Madison Square Garden."

Thomas is entering his second full season as the Knicks' top executive and is sounding more realistic than ever about what it will take for the organization to end its 32-year championship drought.

Last season, Thomas was criticized for changing directions more often than a New York City cab driver. [rvhoss - especially here] Opposing general managers often ask reporters, "Do the Knicks even have a plan?" Even Thomas admits he was forced to change his plan due to circumstances beyond his control.

"When I first got the job our strategy was to have a healthy Allan Houston playing, and once he came off the books we would start rebuilding," Thomas said. "Then Allan got hurt and right in the middle of our plan we had to adjust. We've been tearing it down and piecing it back together."

Thomas is committed to assembling a roster of young, athletic players with reasonable contracts. He believes he then can use some of those assets to acquire a franchise-caliber player.

One of the 50 greatest players of all time, Thomas knows you need stars to win in the NBA and the Knicks haven't had a legitimate superstar since Patrick Ewing's knees gave out.

With Ewing in his prime, former Knicks executives Dave Checketts and Ernie Grunfeld twice rebuilt the team on the fly. Nine years ago, the Knicks managed to get under the salary cap and used that money to sign two free agents, Houston and Chris Childs. They also acquired Larry Johnson in a trade. Three years later, they traded aging veterans Charles Oakley and John Starks and added Latrell Sprewell and Marcus Camby.

With their payroll for the 2005-06 season projected to be $125 million, the Knicks are $75 million over the league's salary cap. Although Thomas wants to cut the payroll - Penny Hardaway and Tim Thomas are in the last year of their contracts and Houston is done next summer - he still is not convinced that waiting three years to get below the cap is the right path for his team.

"Being under the cap doesn't guarantee you anything," Thomas said. "There have been teams that get under the cap but can't sign anyone."

The top free agents usually re-sign with their current clubs because they can receive more lucrative deals. Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen all re-signed with their respective teams over the past 13 months.

Instead, Thomas is using the Miami Heat blueprint, which transformed a loser into a title contender. Under Pat Riley, the Heat drafted Caron Butler and Dwyane Wade in consecutive years in the lottery. They took a chance on free agent Lamar Odom and also found Udonis Haslem, who was undrafted in 2002, playing in Europe. Wade became an instant star while the Heat developed Haslem into a starting power forward.

With Butler and Odom showing promise, the Heat traded that pair with Brian Grant last summer to the Lakers for Shaquille O'Neal. The Houston Rockets used a similar strategy to acquire Tracy McGrady from Orlando in a sign-and-trade.

The Knicks haven't had enough assets the past three years to seriously contend for O'Neal, McGrady or Vince Carter, whom Thomas pursued for six months before Toronto dealt him to New Jersey.

Thomas would not discuss specific players, but he admitted that his best chance of acquiring elite ones is by first upgrading the roster. "Normally, the best players move around in trades," he said. "But you have to have good assets to trade for good players."

Thomas had three first-round picks in last month's draft and will have two more in 2006. Slowly, the roster is getting younger with the addition of rookies Channing Frye, Nate Robinson and David Lee. Thomas also swapped 32-year-old Kurt Thomas for 25-year-old Quentin Richardson.

Last week, Thomas got Seattle free agent center Jerome James, 29, to agree to a five-year, $29 million contract that will become official on Friday. That signing doesn't exactly bolster Thomas' plan of getting younger and more athletic. But the Knicks needed an experienced pivot player and are confident they can develop James into a better all-around player.

With 16 players under contract for next season, including six power forwards, Thomas will have to make several more moves.

He has ruled out trading Stephon Marbury, but either Marbury or Jamal Crawford likely will be moved because of Robinson and Richardson. A general manager said he recently asked Thomas about Marbury but was told that the Knicks weren't trading their best player. That is, until Thomas can find an even better player.



[Edited by - rvhoss on 07/18/2005 11:05:07]

Posted by simrud:

If you are building you do not trade for Mo Taylor, you do not get Jerome James, and you certainly start your 8th lottery pick.

How can anybody be so naive?

you mean everyone isnt 25 or younger or the roster?! and he calls that rebuilding... lol... m0ron

I don't understand the Taylor trade if rebuilding was the plan after Houston went down with injury. But the Rose trade was a rebuilding move adding 2draft picks. Crawford trade was a rebuilding move adding a 24yr old G for 3 vets. Kurt Thomas trade was a rebuilding move adding a 25yr old G/F and another draft pick giving us 5 first rd draft picks in 2 yrs. The vets we added in JYD & Rose & Baker & Norris. Who turned into Taylor were all added because thats the only way we would have gotten the players we were targeting. A few yrs down the road JYD & Rose won't be on the team. But the draft picks we added and most likley Crawford or the stud we trade him for would be.

There are all types of ways to rebuild. Tearing everything down and starting from scratch is one way. But that wasn't realistic with Eisley-Anderson-Spoon-Houston. Who was going to give us ending contracts and draft picks for those guys??? You would have to package 2 draft picks for Eisley to trade him for an expiring contract. Another 2 or Lampe & Milos for Anderson. The deal he got for Spoon with Muchie was a good since his deal actually saved us money until he moved him for Taylor. But still be paying Houston & KVH which would keep us over the cap. So now we wouldn't have any draft picks or prospects and still not be able to sign any big time free agents for another 3yrs.

[Edited by - newyorknewyork on 07/18/2005 14:38:55]