I think he just plays when he wants to and tanks when he wants to.

He's sick of laying it on the line all the time...but for some reason, against new york, he lays it on the line...playing in big time situations, he seems to lay it on the line...

there seems to be some type of attitude switch that just goes off and he goes Kwame all of a sudden and the entire team hates him and he sucks.

You may be right...if we did sign him, he's have to average 20/10.

with the new acquisitions and the PF back log, It'd be nice if we couljd turn two into one and get out of this with a 5 year $40 - $45 million dollar deal.
Give up JYD or Rose (avg. salary 5.5 million) and Taylor ($9 million) or penny's (expiring 16 million) and a number one.

At this point, walker is a 4 - 5, $8 mill per deal. (look at what ilgaukus and dalambart got/get)

He's almost twice as good as James and maybe he'll get the respect he's due?

he reminds me Mark Jackson (who also used to shimmy), as long as you are giving your all, NYC loves you.

If Mark can shimmy, Toine can shimmy (he's not allowed to do it in Boston).

We get rid of two PF's (that wouldn't get much playing time) and have Lee, Walker and 2 out of (rose, sweets, moT, JYD)...more than enough depth and hard work.

walker just doesn't fit with us. we don't need a scorer like walker. we need somebody to anchor down low and play defense and rebound. we have ENOUGH guys that can handle the ball and score AND penetrate. we don't have a pure jumpshooter. and we don't have a big man defender. walker is neither hence why we don't need him.

look at the celtics - he came there and off that momentum, they did work...but then it fizzled towards the end of the season and the playoffs. he was PURELY a 1/2 season rental from their point of view. even they won't go past $7/8 mil (at least from reports) for toine and they need him more than any other team.

wouldn't you rather y'all see sweets and frye develop and see if they're the guys that we can go to war with? seriously? when do we develop our own guys into the "superstars"? alot of other teams do it, why can't we?

walker will hinder their development if he's here and by that ALONE, we shouldn't bring him in.

no doubt.

Posted by OldFan:

Posted by BRIGGS:

so we are stuck with antoine walker a career 41% shooter from the 4 until he is 35-36 years old


so we get add him next to Q rich and J craw both have shot under 40% for the last 3 years?

give up a Sweetney a pick and maybe take back a contract--just to maybe--on your perception get a little better this year?

I say, lets stay as is. The club right now has a solid chance to make the playoffs as is. WHAT if Elton Brand became available at the trade dadline and Sweetney and pick and an ending contract could get him? well we gav it away for a shtty player already?

Are you guys old or young knick fans--when you make a move like that, it BETTER be a last pawn to make a run--not to hopefully win 44 games instead of 42.

the rationale is poor, the business is poor, the player is ineffecient and does not fit. We get to keep him for 6 years on a S+T an we lose nice young assets we can either selct more nice talent with or look to be more opportunistic with

you really want antoine walker at 7-8 mm per until he is 35? Mike Sweetney and Mo Taylor COMBINED ARE BETTER than walker point blank. Each player playing half a game can go 10-5-50%--so unless we are getting back an Elton Brand, I think we are set for noW at the 4.

I'm not a walker fan at all - but I totally disagree with comparing
Mo and Sweeney to Walker. Mo Taylor has had plenty of opportunities to play and has never been able to do anything consistently. Sweeney may one day be ok but right now his defense is terrible, he's foul prone and inconsistent. Two inconsistent guys don't make one consistent guy. Compared to them Walker's defense is great. I don't want to pay walker all that money - but he's much better then taylor and sweeney.

why not, im comparing what Seattle did with a variety of PFs. they happened to win 50+ games in the west. My example was

if Mike Sweetney plays 24 minutes and Mo Taylor plays 24 minutes, we are likely to get a combined number of 20+ and 10 rebounds shooting 50%--go look at their stats
you can say what you want, but they played effeciently they rebounded the ball they shot for a HIGh FG% and per 24 minutes their numbers are actually 24 points 13 rebounds combined shooting 52%

walker's defense? he plays defense? when?

you say sweetney played inconsistently yet he shot 53% with an avg of 8.5 pts and 5.4 reb in 19 minutes
--how can you be inconsitent with those numbers? everyone has off games, but on AVG Sweetney was a high % shooter who could score and rebound and so di Mo Taylor when he came here


On the other hand, dont you consider who INCONSITENT
A Walker is when he shoots 41% for his career at the 4? Ive searched and i couldnt come up with 1 other lets say very good PF who shot anywhere near that, not to mention his FT % and high TO's

Stop and think

No way, No way. You are off my friend. We simply dont need him. tell me who exactly played PF for Seattle last year? Evans Collison Potapenko Fortson
How many games did they win and did they hold their own inside

Seattle had 2 star players: Ray Allen and Rashard and Rashard Lewis having career years. You also forgot about Radmanovich.

Allen 2004-2005
04-05 SEA 78 78 39.3 .428 .376 .883 1.00 3.40 4.40 3.7 1.08 .06 2.19 2.10 23.9

Rashard Lewis 2005-2005
04-05 SEA 71 71 38.0 .462 .400 .777 1.50 3.90 5.50 1.3 1.06 .87 1.73 2.20 20.

Vladimir Radmanovic 2004-2005
04-05 SEA 63 0 29.5 .409 .389 .786 .80 3.80 4.60 1.4 .90 .49 1.27 2.70 11.8

No spectacular field goal percentages there either. That is because they are versatile offensive players who are allowed to take risks and high-degree of dificulty shots.

If you want the Sonics, then we should definitely get Walker! They are like the Celtic of his heyday!

Is Sweetney Taylor Frye Rose JYD just as good--oR actually much better than that team who won 50 games in the east

Where was Antonie Walker against the Pacers?
Outclassed

More like outmanned. Anyway, who do you want again? Stromile Swift? Tell me about his playoff heroics. Or anybody else that we might get for our front line. Take all the time you need.

Why did the Mavericks move him?
because they realize he is over rated

Because they have Nowitzki.

Why didnt he stick with the Hawks
they didnt like him

Because Aw was going to be a free agent and he didn't want to stay in Atlanta.

He has had some success with Boston why dont they want him back?

Because Danny Ainge is Loony Toons: http://www.braintypes.com/ainge.htm

and Ainge has a bigger ego than Antoine. All the Celtic fans said he never should have been traded, and were happy to see him back.

because they have seen the results of Walkers play in the playoffs where guys like kenyon Martin Jermaine Oneal Ben Wallace make him look stupid

Look stupid? Back it up. I can name better players than whoever you might want. (Whomever that is.) What does that prove?

also, he plays an undiscplined game

As compared to

Can you name another elite 4 who shoots 41% from the field for his career?

41.5. Who called him elite? Not me.

Isiah Thomas is going to intimidate Jamal C Q and Walker into shooting + 40% how he didnt exactly scare Jamal from hiding behind the 3 pt line all year--is he going to jump on these guys with a sledge hammer?

That's not what I said at all. Isiah will intimidate them into not taking so many shots when there are superior offensive players on the floor. Actually, Jamal did try harder last year. You don't need to intimadate AW into being over 40%, he already is.

What other club is going to pay a premium for A walker
NONE

Says who?

do we want to stunt the growth of frye for walker
NO

You're right, we don't stunt Frye's growth with AW. We allow Frye to come off the bench and earn some minutes. You go ahead and turn your front line over to Channing Frye, Mike Sweetney and Tim Thomas. Worst in the NBA.

why did we spend 17mm a year for Malik and Taylor?

Don't ask me. Does that mean we have to want them and keep them?

Isiah is treating this roster like a rotiserre game, he had a good draft, he got a 18-20 minute 7-1 guy we have a lot of deopth at the guards

Who is the 7-1 guy?

why dont we let it run its course? we have been the ABSOLUTE worse when dealing with vets, i mean byond vin baker etc.. again we just spent 17mm a season on T and M are we giving upon them right now? stupid

Yes we should, no it isn't. Let's get better.

is there a PF better than AW walker in next years draft yes I think their are multiple one's

Who are they and why do you think we will get them?

its STUPID management to put 3 guys together who shoot a low % on the basis that isiah will kick their arse if they follow their own trends--i mean stay the F away from walker

Sorry then, that is the team we have:

Guards trend = Chuckers.

Forwards/centers trend: = bench players. That is the trend you want to keep?

Im not against any move, i think we paid James to much, but like i said im not against it
i didnt want some of the drafted players, but i believe they are all reasonable

You're not against "any move" but you do seem to have something against Walker, considering the only players we are comparing him to are chopped liver.

but antoine walker would be a stifling move an idiotic conction of stupidty to sign him to a huge contract until he is 35, whoever is behind this brain power will watch us win LESS games than if we sat tight.

Lots of adjectives but very little substance.

I think he just plays when he wants to and tanks when he wants to.

I see no reason to say he has tanked. When?

You may be right...if we did sign him, he's have to average 20/10.

His career averages are 20/09.

walker just doesn't fit with us. we don't need a scorer like walker. we need somebody to anchor down low and play defense and rebound. we have ENOUGH guys that can handle the ball and score AND penetrate. we don't have a pure jumpshooter. and we don't have a big man defender. walker is neither hence why we don't need him.

He doesn't fit in with an entirely mediocre front line and team? I dare say we should fit him in, or make the mdiocre guys do some adapting.

look at the celtics - he came there and off that momentum, they did work...but then it fizzled towards the end of the season and the playoffs. he was PURELY a 1/2 season rental from their point of view. even they won't go past $7/8 mil (at least from reports) for toine and they need him more than any other team.

The Celtics were beaten by a better team. If we get Toine for 7-8-9 million he is a BARGAIN.

wouldn't you rather y'all see sweets and frye develop and see if they're the guys that we can go to war with? seriously? when do we develop our own guys into the "superstars"? alot of other teams do it, why can't we?
walker will hinder their development if he's here and by that ALONE, we shouldn't bring him in.

Why does Walker hinder their development? Do you think because a young player has someone who gets more time than them they aren't being developed? Development is not about having players play more time than they should.

No team will pay Walker above 5mm, maybe the dumb knicks. In fact I would like one person here to show me a salary structure where AW could get an 8=9-10mm $ deal--NO team--why didnt the teams with all of the cash go after walker--i mean Milwaukee couldve had him--they went for rahim and then simmons

No team will give a 20/9 player more than 5 million. Please get real.

NJ does not even have a PF why is Walkers name not even mentioned? the only guy mentioned are rahim, marshall, swift

Who says?

in fact i have not seen one team that is interested in A W--Clev was prepared to give haslem 45mm why not walker

Prove it.

dont u see where this is going stupid land

Good point And quite the argument as well. According to you, Udonis Haslem, rahim, marshall, swift, and simmons are all better than AW. Maybe Rahim is. If you can't compare stats and success and cut the sportswriter, around the horn stuff, I can't really argue because there is nothing to argue with. Use the facts if you can.

On the other hand, dont you consider who INCONSITENT
A Walker is when he shoots 41% for his career at the 4? Ive searched and i couldnt come up with 1 other lets say very good PF who shot anywhere near that, not to mention his FT % and high TO's

And your replacement is:

Stop and think

I think you don't have a better alternative.

oohah

wow - you really like walker, huh?

No, I really like him compared to what me might get and what we have. The only other player of his caliber whose name is being tossed around is Shareef Abdur Rahim.

sweets got 20 mins a night last year.
let's say he's in getting in shape this summer.

how many minutes would he get if walker is here?
will those 20 go up or will it stay at 20? or will it go down?

Sweets still gets 30 minutes or more. Not every player plays every game. Some of these guys on the front line will get DNP's

sweets will not get more than 20 mins a night - that, to me, is hindering his development.

Sweets will get plenty of time. He's the most senior man on the front line now. Anyway walker shoots sooooo many threes that sweetney will gobble up the multitude of misses.

no point discussing this unless we get him.

Furthermore, I guess there is no real point in discussing much of anything since all we can do is watch.

you're high on him and want him here.
i say - i'll pass.

I think Antoine Walker is "very good player", and you should add very good players at almost every opportunity.

I would rather have Shareef Abdur Rahim. I can't believe the AW naysayers haven't brought up his name until just recently. I just don't think that we can get him.

If you pass and we add no one, where do you rank our front line? Who is worse than us?

oohah

Wow, oohah, that's an impressive dissection of each of Briggs' "points." I'd give you more than 2 thumbs up if I had more than two thumbs!
Sure I'd be partly uncomfortable if we got Walker because I wouldn't know what to expect, but for his talent and past winning, I think it's worth the risk.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 07/15/2005 23:21:50]

Posted by Bonn1997:

Wow, oohah, that's an impressive dissection of each of Briggs' "points." I'd give you more than 2 thumbs up if I had more than two thumbs!
Sure I'd be partly uncomfortable if we got Walker because I wouldn't know what to expect, but for his talent and past winning, I think it's worth the risk.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 07/15/2005 23:21:50]

2 thumbs up for what--he is wrong, he's stating his opinion, but like I said the reality is antoine is an undiscplined low % player proven by his numbers including FG% FT% TO'sand defense. He was shown to be an inferior player in the playoffs by guys like Kenyon Martin, jermaine Oneal, Ben Wallace, this is not conjecture or opinion, but fact. he says that its just conjecture that other teams will pay him, but i didnt see one tam with cap room even offer him. I did see guys like Haslem Simmons Gadzuric KWAME BROWN haggled over. I believe that Rahim and Walker are in the same boat money wise, and we have seen heard from Goodwin that it would take the Nets to offer a 6 yr 38mm$ contract to get it done in a S+T--its in the papers all of them.

we will have to ki$$ the Boston Celtics arse for this player, truly a NY no-no. No true NY team would EVER kiss an arse from Boston, especially for him. No pride and the bottom line is when we line up all thes eshtty defenders who shoot 40%, we be right back in the shtter, but this time stuck with the junk.
No wonder why no one wants to coach the knicks