[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

Making a winner and making a dollar-Isiah's plan
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 1 of 4  1  2  3 Next ›Last »
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
Killa4luv
Posts: 27768
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
7/14/2005  6:05 PM
That is the delicat balance that any NY GM must learn. Isiah is super at getting that done. Other GM's have to not go over the cap, adn try to win so rebuilding from scratch is always a possibility. We play in NY, and rebuilding from scratch is never an option.

Isiahs job is to:
1. Build an exciting, playoff caliber team that fills the seats and sells merchandise.

2. Build a team that can compete for a championship.

Half of the people here seem to miss this. These are his priorities in that order. He cannot build a championship caliber team through the draft by sucking for 3 years to get very high lotto picks. It simply is not an option.

In order to accomplish those 2 goals, he has:

1. Acquired a big name player to be the face of the franchise, who added talent, excitement and sales.
2. Stockpiled young, athletic talent through trades and the draft.
3. Added some veteran players who have skill, and can contribute while youngsters develop and add depth at certain positions.

This is obviously the plan. You don't have to like it, but you ought to accept it as reality. Signing Jerome James was consistant with that plan. We needed a center, he shot for the best MLE players and in the end I have to believe Jerome James was the best available option. There is no reason to believe otherwise. Is JJ the player any of us wanted? No. Does he make sense for a team without a center for the MLE? Absolutely.

The sign & trade players are still available and he may acquire one of them as well. If he does get us a good PF or Center before the season starts we will have a well balanced, deep, talented roster made up of a mix of young and veteran players.
AUTOADVERT
Killa4luv
Posts: 27768
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
7/14/2005  11:57 PM
Okay so I am going to assume everyone understands the plan, and understands the direction we're going in. I am glad I could clear that up for all of you "Isiah has no plan" guys. Your Welcome.
Panos
Posts: 29349
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/6/2004
Member: #520
7/15/2005  12:29 AM
nyvector16
Posts: 21308
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/9/2001
Member: #130
USA
7/15/2005  12:59 AM
I totally agree with you Killa..
We are not too far away from having a realistic chance at pulling off a series win against alot of the top teams in the league... And dominate some of the lesser ones.

I'm really hoping a big talent falls on our lap for the LLE after beeing cut for Tax relief. Players in that position will still get the salaries from their previous team. I could see alot of players wanting to play in NYC. and settle for the LLE.. as they are already taken care of from prevvious teams.

We will have a good team starting this season...
We have a good chance of Manning a great team at the start of next season if our young guys develope... and someone other than Marbury steps up on a consistent basis.

We are looking good...

[Edited by - nyvector16 on 07/15/2005 01:00:37]
nyk4ever
Posts: 41009
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
7/15/2005  1:44 AM
Good post Killa, I have been preaching this to people for months now and everyone just seems to pretend like its not there. The fact is, there are certain perameters that every single GM that works under Jim Dolan must abide by and you listed them. It takes a really good GM to rebuild a franchise in those given paremeters and I think Isiah is doing an absolutely great job with it.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
Posts: 26191
Alba Posts: 28
Joined: 6/24/2002
Member: #263
USA
7/15/2005  1:50 AM
Thanks for breaking it down for the multitude of pessimists, Killa. The knee-jerk reactions by some have been getting out of control.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Rich
Posts: 27410
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 12/30/2003
Member: #511
USA
7/15/2005  1:56 AM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Thanks for breaking it down for the multitude of pessimists, Killa. The knee-jerk reactions by some have been getting out of control.

Just because some of us don't approve of Isiah's moves, it doesn't mean it's a knee jerk reaction. In fact, a compelling argument can be made that those who like his moves are displaying a knee jerk reaction.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
Posts: 26191
Alba Posts: 28
Joined: 6/24/2002
Member: #263
USA
7/15/2005  2:03 AM
Posted by Rich:
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Thanks for breaking it down for the multitude of pessimists, Killa. The knee-jerk reactions by some have been getting out of control.

Just because some of us don't approve of Isiah's moves, it doesn't mean it's a knee jerk reaction. In fact, a compelling argument can be made that those who like his moves are displaying a knee jerk reaction.

The ones who present compelling arguments are not those to whom I refer. I'm talking about the ones who wanna hyper-criticize moves made prior to seeing the group Isiah is now assembling even play a single NBA (season) game. Judging players future careers based on SL games is one off the better knee-jerk reaction examples.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
7/15/2005  8:18 AM
This is a good thread. I agree with Killa's main points.
rvhoss
Posts: 24943
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/2/2004
Member: #777
Switzerland
7/15/2005  9:29 AM
yep...we know we aren't the best team in the league, and james wasn't the best fa center available...but we got a center.

Accentuate the positive...we finally have a center.
all kool aid all the time.
bobs3304
Posts: 24827
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 7/5/2005
Member: #948
7/15/2005  9:42 AM
I'll break it down real simple for those that still don't get it:

A.) Isiah has wanted to build a playoff contender ASAP as soon as he was hired.

B.) The chips fell where they did.

C.) He had to give some consideration to the possibility that they would have to briefly rebuild. With the signing of 29 y/o Center Jerome James, that will not happen. Playoffs have always been, and still are, his #1 goal in mind.

D.) This is Isiah's vision. He'll do what he deems necessary to build a contender. Some of us may not agree with those moves, but they are his nonetheless...

DLee is the best thing to happen to NY in Isiah's 4 year tenure. And that alone, though a positive on the radar, is sad as hell.
simrud
Posts: 23392
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/13/2003
Member: #474
USA
7/15/2005  9:56 AM
In my opinion IT pla is to build a team that makes the playoffs but has no chance to win it all. Simply because for that rebuilding is required. So IT's plan is to be a mediorce playoff team.

I don't like it personally. I don't even think thats a plan. Because it amounts to go grab the best talent avialable with complete disregard to the team style and cap consideratins.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
djsunyc
Posts: 44927
Alba Posts: 42
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #536
7/15/2005  9:58 AM
one thing tho - for all the young guys he brought in,

ariza, lee, nate, frye - they're all coachable, young, hungry, and play hard.

but then he brings in mo, vin, and jerome - 3 guys who HISTORICALLY have been lazy, out of shape, or just don't get it.

i know there's a plan.
and he's executing it.

what frustrates me is that some of the moves he makes are a little bit of headscratchers and kind of delays the plan from coming to fruition a little bit. that's my only gripe with him.

the one HUGE MISTAKE was his handling of our head coach situation since he got here - and that set us back further.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07/15/2005 10:01:32]
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
7/15/2005  10:09 AM
Posted by simrud:

In my opinion IT pla is to build a team that makes the playoffs but has no chance to win it all. Simply because for that rebuilding is required. So IT's plan is to be a mediorce playoff team.

I don't like it personally. I don't even think thats a plan. Because it amounts to go grab the best talent avialable with complete disregard to the team style and cap consideratins.
I don't get how you can call it anything but rebuilding when the team has EIGHT talented, young players with upside who are between 19 and 25. There are some overpaid veteran role players on the team, but the *majority* of the players are very young and hard-working with very good potential.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
7/15/2005  11:29 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

one thing tho - for all the young guys he brought in,

ariza, lee, nate, frye - they're all coachable, young, hungry, and play hard.

but then he brings in mo, vin, and jerome - 3 guys who HISTORICALLY have been lazy, out of shape, or just don't get it.

what i've been saying all day yesterday...but i guess if you don't like some of Isiah's moves (even while you like the others), you're automatically labeled a pessimistic knee jerk reaction hater.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Killa4luv
Posts: 27768
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
7/15/2005  11:33 AM
Posted by simrud:

In my opinion IT pla is to build a team that makes the playoffs but has no chance to win it all. Simply because for that rebuilding is required. So IT's plan is to be a mediorce playoff team.

I don't like it personally.
Sim, thats stupid. His plan is to build a team that has no chance of winning? His plan is to build a mediocre team?

Everything he is doing now, is consistant with us getting better in the long run and the short run.

When James starts slowing down in 4 years, he will be a backup to Frye and whatever other big we have at the time. He'll also be making 5.9 per which is a very reasonable and tradeable contract for a 7 footer off the bench.

Q, Craw, Ariza, Frye, Nate and Lee will be in or close to their primes. JYD, Rose, H20 and Mo T will all be history. Why is that plan so hard for you to see?
nyk4ever
Posts: 41009
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
7/15/2005  11:41 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by djsunyc:

one thing tho - for all the young guys he brought in,

ariza, lee, nate, frye - they're all coachable, young, hungry, and play hard.

but then he brings in mo, vin, and jerome - 3 guys who HISTORICALLY have been lazy, out of shape, or just don't get it.

what i've been saying all day yesterday...but i guess if you don't like some of Isiah's moves (even while you like the others), you're automatically labeled a pessimistic knee jerk reaction hater.

Well when you don't look at the facts that people are presenting to you about having more then half of our roster being between the ages of 18 and 25 and just ignoring this fact, then you can understand why that people are labeling you. Isiah is rebuilding while trying to be competitve and soon 2 more of those guys that are over the age of 25(Penny, TT) are going to be gone as well for a young PF or C so that looks like rebuilding to me.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
simrud
Posts: 23392
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/13/2003
Member: #474
USA
7/15/2005  11:42 AM
How can it be called rebuilding when several of your young veterans are being blocked by mediocre overpaid vets, who are designed to bring you in contention for the playoffs (but arent good enough to win you a championship). Rebuilding requires more than just buying the materials...you have to put them together.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Killa4luv
Posts: 27768
Alba Posts: 51
Joined: 6/23/2002
Member: #261
USA
7/15/2005  11:44 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

but then he brings in mo, vin, and jerome - 3 guys who HISTORICALLY have been lazy, out of shape, or just don't get it.
Jerome James is a very simple move to understand. We cannot be a playoff team without some size. JJ provides that. For the MLE, it made perfect sense. He isn't the best, but he was available, cheap and we needed it.

Vin Baker was the same thing, we desperately needed a big and he was available and very cheap so its not like it made such a difference.

Mo Taylor, is a talented player who was had for expiring bums. Yeah his contract is kinda ludicrous, but I actually liked Mo Taylor, I saw the potential in him to be a good player, he can do alot on offense. But I;ll concede this move hasn't panned out so well, but it still may and he expires with H20, so it was worth a chance.
what frustrates me is that some of the moves he makes are a little bit of headscratchers and kind of delays the plan from coming to fruition a little bit. that's my only gripe with him.

I don't see any moves that have stopped the plan from coming into fruition. Once you accept that getting under the cap wasn't ever part of the plan, then I can't see anything that actually delays the plan from coming to fruition. Except...
the one HUGE MISTAKE was his handling of our head coach situation since he got here - and that set us back further.
I agree here. We can all agree that Lenny was not the right coach to begin with. But hindsight is 20/20, If H20 came back healthy we woulda been in the playoffs and Lenny probably would have probably still been here, and we would have been happy. We have to get the coaching thing right this time. We have a nice mix of talent, we need the right coach to put it together for us.

[Edited by - killa4luv on 07/15/2005 11:46:02]
nyk4ever
Posts: 41009
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
7/15/2005  11:49 AM
Posted by simrud:

How can it be called rebuilding when several of your young veterans are being blocked by mediocre overpaid vets, who are designed to bring you in contention for the playoffs (but arent good enough to win you a championship). Rebuilding requires more than just buying the materials...you have to put them together.

Who is being blocked by overpaid veterans? Sweetney is a starter now. Nate, Frye and Lee are all rookies and not expected to start coming into their first year, although Channing still might start but James isn't blocking him because Channing is a PF, not a C. There is only one player that you can say is blocking anyone and that is TT who is blocking Ariza but TT is going to be gone soon so.... I don't see it.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Page 1 of 4  1  2  3 Next ›Last »
« Reply To Topic
Making a winner and making a dollar-Isiah's plan
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2012 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy