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Can Marbury do for James what he did for Nazy?
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VDesai
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7/15/2005  9:53 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:

[
Okay well then how do you guys account for his fg% going from 50.9% with us to 38.7% with San Antonio? Aren't SA world champions, shouldn't his fg% have gone up by that logic?

Not only that but to quote my earlier post which no one seems to have read :
He really had a career year the first half of the season. Many of his highs for the season were career highs as well and they all came while he was in a Knick uniform. This first half of his season was the best in his career.

How do you guys account for that?

For the first 3 months of the year he averaged 30.2 mpg. His previous career high was the 26.4 for the year. The point I was trying to make before, was that the more minutes he got, the more productive. Same thing stands here. As far as why he dropped off with the Spurs? His minutes became less (18 per game), and more sporadic (he came off the bench for the majority of his games). SO his comfort level was thrown off a bit.

There's no Marbury hate here. In my first post I already admitted that Marbury helped his FG% (from 46-47 to the low 50's). Some would argue that Mark Aguirre's coaching helped with that too. But the point is Nazr wasn't a no name before he got here, and actually played several games (more games than when he was on the Knicks) at a pretty high level of production when given the amount of minutes necessary to succeed.

The same theory will apply to Jerome James. The guy is productive for the amount of minutes he gets. If he can stay out of foul trouble and play 25-30 mpg he will be productive. Part of that argument was fleshed out in the playoffs. He got his foul rate down, and his minutes and productivity went up big time.
AUTOADVERT
franco12
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7/15/2005  9:59 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:


Okay well then how do you guys account for his fg% going from 50.9% with us to 38.7% with San Antonio? Aren't SA world champions, shouldn't his fg% have gone up by that logic?

Not only that but to quote my earlier post which no one seems to have read :
He really had a career year the first half of the season. Many of his highs for the season were career highs as well and they all came while he was in a Knick uniform. This first half of his season was the best in his career.

How do you guys account for that?

No doubt Marbury got him good looks- but give some big credit to Crawford as 61% of his shots were available for Nazr to grab for potentially easy put backs.

And Nazr's shooting percentage was that bad on SA in part because he was still coming back from the groin injury. If he gets minutes this year, I'm sure his % will normalize.
franco12
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7/15/2005  10:00 AM
And for James doing anything with Marbury and the knicks- Look folks, its going to depend big time on what the coaching staff is looking to do.
VDesai
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7/15/2005  10:06 AM
Posted by codeunknown:
Posted by Bonn1997:


Nazy was his nickname. Did you watch any games last year? He's always called "Nazy"


And Bingo was his name-o. Thats the dumbest shi t Ive heard in a while.

Let's create a new arsenal of player nicknames pronounced exactly the same way as the player's real name!

There's...
Stefan Marbury!
Dayvid Lee!
Neight (rhymes with 8) Robinson!
Timm Thomas!
Mycull Sweetney!
More Reese Taylor
Mulleek Rose
Chan-Ning Frye (to bring out his long lost Asian Heritage)
NYKBocker
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7/15/2005  10:16 AM
I am a little late on this thread and started reading from the 1st page and on. Man, this thread imploded in a hurry. Arguing about the spelling, then the pronounciation, then if it is a nickname or not.

Now for my answer to the question.

Mahmood did not need Marbury to accomplish anything as evidence with his play in the playoffs for the Spurs. He is a perfect caddy for a Star Big Man in the role of Oakley, Thorpe, AC Green.

Marbury will be able to help James assuming James doesn't get more press than Starbury and start treating him like a leper.

And yes, Mahmood was a joke.

Killa4luv
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7/15/2005  10:30 AM
VDesai and Franco, I think we all pretty much agree here.

VDesai, you are really taking this spelling thing to a next level. But hey, whatever floats your boat.
VDesai
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7/15/2005  10:36 AM
Posted by Killa4luv:

VDesai and Franco, I think we all pretty much agree here.

VDesai, you are really taking this spelling thing to a next level. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

LOL...Nah dude...Just having some fun here. I actually don't care how anyone spells. I spell crap wrong all the time. I just thought it was funny that Nazr's name was still getting spelled wrong after having spent a year on the team. The whole "nickname" angle took me by surprise though! That's just how the dude's name is pronounced!

[Edited by - VDesai on 07/15/2005 10:36:41]
TMS
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7/15/2005  11:34 AM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Turn a bench scrub into a 12 PPG scorer on 55% shooting because of his playmaking skills. (Only James will get tripple the blocked shots.) If not, why? What's the difference between Nazy pre-Marbury and James?

Funny how the "key to the deal" and later proclaimed "best player in the trade" is now referred to as a "bench scrub" after he leaves and goes onto a championship with the Spurs. He improved when he was on the Spurs too. Yet, somehow Marbunny gets all the credit. Funny thing when you wear rose colored glasses, I guess.

kinda like how Crawford is all of a sudden an "average starter in the league" now when all last year he was a "young 23 year old star in the making" that Isiah stole from the Bulls for scrap parts i guess...funny how someone can go from 1 extreme to the other to make it suit their arguments.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
simrud
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7/15/2005  4:08 PM
Bonn you tellin somebody to get life is like a girl tellin a guy to grow some balls lol.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
Bonn1997
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7/15/2005  4:09 PM
Posted by simrud:

Bonn you tellin somebody to get life is like a girl tellin a guy to grow some balls lol.
that's quiet an imagination you have there
Bonn1997
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7/15/2005  4:11 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bonn1997:

Turn a bench scrub into a 12 PPG scorer on 55% shooting because of his playmaking skills. (Only James will get tripple the blocked shots.) If not, why? What's the difference between Nazy pre-Marbury and James?

Funny how the "key to the deal" and later proclaimed "best player in the trade" is now referred to as a "bench scrub" after he leaves and goes onto a championship with the Spurs. He improved when he was on the Spurs too. Yet, somehow Marbunny gets all the credit. Funny thing when you wear rose colored glasses, I guess.

kinda like how Crawford is all of a sudden an "average starter in the league" now when all last year he was a "young 23 year old star in the making" that Isiah stole from the Bulls for scrap parts i guess...funny how someone can go from 1 extreme to the other to make it suit their arguments.
Yeah, Jamal is and has always been an average starter. You have to be a good player to be an average starter. Only 15 players at each position in the whole league are at least average starters at their positions. If you can get an average starter without giving up one, it's a very good deal. We've been over this. Why do you keep bringing it up? Sorry I can't be more negative about Isiah for you and could only think of 4 decisions in the other thread that he's made that I disagreed with.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 07/15/2005 16:25:29]
gunsnewing
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7/15/2005  4:20 PM
James is a lot more skilled than Nazr. Nazr hurts you offensively. Its like playing 4 on 5. JJ's problem like Simrud said is foul trouble. He has to play like he played in that Sacremento series where he stayed out of foul trouble and averaged 18pts 9rebs. Something Nazr would never do in a series. He's also an elite shot-blocker. Nazr cannot be considered a shot-blocker no way! James also does a better job defending big guys like Shaq & Yao. If he stays out of foul trouble and thats a big IF he has the skills to be one of the top centers in the East. The pressure of NY and the fans will keep him on his toes. Again his contract is not nearly as bad as Dampier's and Foyle's and he could be better than those bums.

And whoever said Nazr's improved because of minutes not Marbury is 100% right. Marbury getting nazr open looks means nothing when NAzr can't finish a layup or dunk. Marbury should have a little more chemistry with JJ

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 07/15/2005 16:23:34]
TMS
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7/15/2005  4:38 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:

If he stays out of foul trouble and thats a big IF he has the skills to be one of the top centers in the East.

getting a little excited there over a career 5 ppg scrub bench player, aren't you? what about Jerome James' game makes you think he has all the skills to be 1 of the top C's in the East? is he a great post scorer? does he have a good perimeter shot? is he going to be a defensive menace like Ben Wallace & Dikembe Mutombo in his prime? please enlighten me, because the Jerome James I've watched over the past few years hasn't proven anything to me other than the fact he's just another big body hack that you throw up against guys like Shaq & Duncan in purely a limited role who gets his points on dunks, short hooks & layups...comparing him to guys like Nazr & Dudley don't do THOSE guys justice, because he's not as good an offensive player as Nazr & not as good a defensive player as Dudley was in his prime either...you guys really need to calm down on this guy...he's a LLE player making MLE dollars.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bonn1997
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7/15/2005  6:12 PM
Posted by simrud:

Bonn you tellin somebody to get life is like a girl tellin a guy to grow some balls lol.
Oh and BTW, I'm quite satisfied with the quantity and quality of my balls! Thanks for asking!
gunsnewing
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7/15/2005  6:21 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by gunsnewing:

If he stays out of foul trouble and thats a big IF he has the skills to be one of the top centers in the East.

getting a little excited there over a career 5 ppg scrub bench player, aren't you? what about Jerome James' game makes you think he has all the skills to be 1 of the top C's in the East? is he a great post scorer? does he have a good perimeter shot? is he going to be a defensive menace like Ben Wallace & Dikembe Mutombo in his prime? please enlighten me, because the Jerome James I've watched over the past few years hasn't proven anything to me other than the fact he's just another big body hack that you throw up against guys like Shaq & Duncan in purely a limited role who gets his points on dunks, short hooks & layups...comparing him to guys like Nazr & Dudley don't do THOSE guys justice, because he's not as good an offensive player as Nazr & not as good a defensive player as Dudley was in his prime either...you guys really need to calm down on this guy...he's a LLE player making MLE dollars.

he averaged 18 & 9 against the Kings! he was a beast inside during that series. obviously he has some skills!
Bonn1997
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7/15/2005  6:35 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by gunsnewing:

If he stays out of foul trouble and thats a big IF he has the skills to be one of the top centers in the East.

getting a little excited there over a career 5 ppg scrub bench player, aren't you? what about Jerome James' game makes you think he has all the skills to be 1 of the top C's in the East? is he a great post scorer? does he have a good perimeter shot? is he going to be a defensive menace like Ben Wallace & Dikembe Mutombo in his prime? please enlighten me, because the Jerome James I've watched over the past few years hasn't proven anything to me other than the fact he's just another big body hack that you throw up against guys like Shaq & Duncan in purely a limited role who gets his points on dunks, short hooks & layups...comparing him to guys like Nazr & Dudley don't do THOSE guys justice, because he's not as good an offensive player as Nazr & not as good a defensive player as Dudley was in his prime either...you guys really need to calm down on this guy...he's a LLE player making MLE dollars.

he averaged 18 & 9 against the Kings! he was a beast inside during that series. obviously he has some skills!
He obviously has the skills and size to be an outstanding player. His playoff performance makes his career prior to the playoffs extremely puzzling. The MLE was a lot of money to gamble on him, but that's just the going rate for big men. If he plays anywhere near the player he was in the playoffs, he was a huge steal. If he's the role player with good shot-blocking that he's been throughout his career, then we overpaid for him at $5.8 mil/season and wasted the MLE. I don't care much about the $5.8 mil/season, but I do care about using up the MLE. Once it became clear that Kwame and Stro would not be available for the MLE, I didn't think there were better options available for the MLE, though. My guess is that that was Isiah's thinking too.

An alternative reasonable MLE option was to sign Steven Hunter for about half the MLE and use the other half to lock up Ariza and/or Butler to a long-term deal. I could definitely approve of that option too. I'm undecided on what would have been the better use of the MLE. I'm leaning toward Isiah's decision to sign JJ because the new CBA gives us a lot of protection regarding Ariza.
BigC
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7/15/2005  7:01 PM
I don't think Marbury should get the credit for Nazr production on the Knicks. Almost all Nazr points were many from put backs, post moves, and Nazr shooting the ball. Marbury rarely created shots for Nazr. Marbury is not the reason Nazr box out his man and got good offensive rebounds or scored on put backs.

As far as James. Nobody is going to make him better. He has to want to be better. James has game. He can post, block shots and defend. I think a change of environment will be good for him.

[Edited by - BigC on 07/15/2005 19:06:49]
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Bonn1997
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7/15/2005  7:19 PM
Posted by BigC:

I don't think Marbury should get the credit for Nazr production on the Knicks. Almost all Nazr points were many from put backs, post moves, and Nazr shooting the ball. Marbury rarely created shots for Nazr. Marbury is not the reason Nazr box out his man and got good offensive rebounds or scored on put backs.

As far as James. Nobody is going to make him better. He has to want to be better. James has game. He can post, block shots and defend. I think a change of environment will be good for him.

[Edited by - BigC on 07/15/2005 19:06:49]
I disagree; A LOT of Nazy's points were from penetration by Marbury. Regarding put backs, the Knicks' FG% wasn't lower than Nazy's previous teams (i.e., the Hawks teams). It's not like he had opportunities for put backs that he hadn't had in the past.
BigC
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7/15/2005  7:35 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by BigC:

I don't think Marbury should get the credit for Nazr production on the Knicks. Almost all Nazr points were many from put backs, post moves, and Nazr shooting the ball. Marbury rarely created shots for Nazr. Marbury is not the reason Nazr box out his man and got good offensive rebounds or scored on put backs.

As far as James. Nobody is going to make him better. He has to want to be better. James has game. He can post, block shots and defend. I think a change of environment will be good for him.

[Edited by - BigC on 07/15/2005 19:06:49]
I disagree; A LOT of Nazy's points were from penetration by Marbury. Regarding put backs, the Knicks' FG% wasn't lower than Nazy's previous teams (i.e., the Hawks teams). It's not like he had opportunities for put backs that he hadn't had in the past.

When Nazr was on the 76ers with Ratiff out, he was putting up similiar numbers. Nazr production increase because on the Knicks he got twice as many minutes and stay healthy until his one injury on the Knicks. Compared to Nazr on other teams. Marbury and Kurt ran the pick and roll alot not Marbury and Nazr. If you give Marbury the credit you have to give Kurt and Jamal the credit too. Kurt would setup on the outside giving Nazr the ball on the inside or high post.
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Bonn1997
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7/15/2005  8:06 PM
When Nazr was on the 76ers with Ratiff out, he was putting up similiar numbers. Nazr production increase because on the Knicks he got twice as many minutes and stay healthy until his one injury on the Knicks.
Again, he never put up near the 12/9 AND 55% shooting that he had prior to the groin injury last season. He may have had one of those stats in prior years but not all 3. That's what made it a career year for him.

If you give Marbury the credit you have to give Kurt and Jamal the credit too.
Deal! I'll give Kurt and Jamal some credit too. I didn't see Kurt getting too many assists to Nazy (or anyone) but I'm in a generous mood and I'll give him credit anyway!

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 07/15/2005 20:07:18]
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