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What were the Suns thinking?
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Pharzeone
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6/29/2005  3:16 AM
Now that the trade is offical. This trade is horrible for the Suns. I know KT is a defensive savy player and has the pick and roll thing going but that's not the Suns style. And to give up the 1st round pick and trade Richardson who was just as much a reason for that team winning last season. Also KT has trouble against West big men. I guess the Suns said hell if Nazr helped out the Spurs so much, you know KT will a star. Damn, what's next. TT traded for 3 unprotected 1st rounders.
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gunsnewing
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6/29/2005  3:18 AM
apparently they weren't thinking!

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 06/29/2005 03:22:15]
VDesai
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6/29/2005  3:19 AM
They have to save a little bit of money by trading their guaranteed contract first roudner for an unguranteed second rounder. A million here or there might make the difference on keeping Joe Johnson.
Rich
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6/29/2005  3:22 AM
KT is going to look a lot better playing next to Amare, and Nash will get him a lot of open looks.
SKY
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6/29/2005  4:56 AM
Posted by VDesai:

They have to save a little bit of money by trading their guaranteed contract first roudner for an unguranteed second rounder. A million here or there might make the difference on keeping Joe Johnson.

Exactly. Joe Johnson is an absolute stud, and they value having him (and KT) is more important than Q-Rich & Nate. And I agree there. If they don't clear cap room, they very well could lose him to teams with huge cap space, which would have been a disaster of an off-season after a great 04-05 season. In other words: GREAT TRADE FOR ISIAH (though I hear that it was Phoenix who approached him with the trade idea).
firefly
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6/29/2005  5:35 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:

Now that the trade is offical. This trade is horrible for the Suns. I know KT is a defensive savy player and has the pick and roll thing going but that's not the Suns style. And to give up the 1st round pick and trade Richardson who was just as much a reason for that team winning last season. Also KT has trouble against West big men. I guess the Suns said hell if Nazr helped out the Spurs so much, you know KT will a star. Damn, what's next. TT traded for 3 unprotected 1st rounders.

Oh by the way, if that wasnt enough for you, Nyknicks.com says we got cash considerations in the deal as well. We really got the better side of this deal. Altough I did hear a rumour that the back thing wasnt sorted out, which is maybe why the Suns overpaid here.

NEW YORK, June 28, 2005 – New York Knickerbockers President of Basketball Operations Isiah Thomas announced today that guard/forward Quentin Richardson, the draft rights to Nate Robinson, the 21st pick in the 2005 NBA Draft, and cash considerations have been acquired from Phoenix in exchange for forward Kurt Thomas and the draft rights to Dijon Thompson, the 54th pick in the 2005 NBA Draft.

Richardson, 6-6, 230-pounds, averaged 14.9 points and 6.1 rebounds in 79 regular season games for the Suns last season, and in addition, averaged 11.9 points in his first 15 career NBA Playoff games. Considered one of the premier three-point shooters in the League, the 25-year-old Chicago-native led the NBA in attempts with 631 and tied for the league-lead in makes with 226. In just his second appearance at the Three-Point Shootout during NBA All-Star Weekend, the five-year NBA veteran captured the title in Denver this past February. In addition, Richardson has been ranked in the top five in rebounds amongst guards in the NBA over the past two seasons.

Robinson, 5-9, 180-pounds, was drafted by the Suns after his junior year as the 21st overall pick in the 2005 NBA Draft and averaged 14.4 points and 3.3 assists in 89 games for the University of Washington. The Seattle, WA-native earned First Team All-Pac-10 honors his sophomore and junior seasons.

“Welcoming Quentin and Nate to the Knicks family are more steps in the right direction for this franchise,” Isiah Thomas said. “Not only does this trade make our team younger and more athletic, but it adds a strong defensive presence to our perimeter. We think both will be perfect compliments to our existing backcourt.”

Thomas, 6-9, 235-pounds, completed seven seasons in New York and finished his Knicks career as the franchise’s ninth all-time leading rebounder with 4,183. The 33-year-old Dallas-native averaged 11.5 points and a career-high 10.4 rebounds in 80 games (all starts) and was just one of 11 players to average a double-double during the 2004-05 season.

“I am sorry to see Kurt Thomas leave New York because we all know what he has meant to this franchise,” Thomas said. “He was one of our toughest frontline players this past season, but this trade is just one step in a large plan to improve this team.”
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
bigpimpin
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6/29/2005  6:13 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:

Now that the trade is offical. This trade is horrible for the Suns. I know KT is a defensive savy player and has the pick and roll thing going but that's not the Suns style. And to give up the 1st round pick and trade Richardson who was just as much a reason for that team winning last season. Also KT has trouble against West big men. I guess the Suns said hell if Nazr helped out the Spurs so much, you know KT will a star. Damn, what's next. TT traded for 3 unprotected 1st rounders.

Here we gooooo again.

Suns keep getting robbed on their trades with the Knicks, don't they. When will the team that had one of the best records in the league last year learn?

Listen. they were trying to free up money but ended up walking away with another frontcourt player. You can't tell me Kurt Thomas won't help the Suns in rebounding. Who doesn't have trouble against the "west Bigs" in your opinion?

You failed to mention how Joe Johnson is a better player than Q.

You seemed to be going in a good direction when you mentioned how Nazr filled a role in SA next to duncan. i thought you would end up with Kurt filling a role next to Amare but apparantly, you missed your exit.
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
firefly
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6/29/2005  6:33 AM
Posted by bigpimpin:
Posted by Pharzeone:

Now that the trade is offical. This trade is horrible for the Suns. I know KT is a defensive savy player and has the pick and roll thing going but that's not the Suns style. And to give up the 1st round pick and trade Richardson who was just as much a reason for that team winning last season. Also KT has trouble against West big men. I guess the Suns said hell if Nazr helped out the Spurs so much, you know KT will a star. Damn, what's next. TT traded for 3 unprotected 1st rounders.

Here we gooooo again.

Suns keep getting robbed on their trades with the Knicks, don't they. When will the team that had one of the best records in the league last year learn?

Listen. they were trying to free up money but ended up walking away with another frontcourt player. You can't tell me Kurt Thomas won't help the Suns in rebounding. Who doesn't have trouble against the "west Bigs" in your opinion?

You failed to mention how Joe Johnson is a better player than Q.

You seemed to be going in a good direction when you mentioned how Nazr filled a role in SA next to duncan. i thought you would end up with Kurt filling a role next to Amare but apparantly, you missed your exit.

Hey pimpdaddy, what makes you so bitter this early in the morning? Fact is Pharzones got it right. We DID getter the better side of the deal this time round. It has nothing to do with what Kurt will or wont do next year in Phoenix. Noones saying hell be a bust, but we did better out of this deal then the suns did. We got 8 years younger, shored up a position that needed help, got another 1st rounder which I think we used extremely well, plus cash. Whats to argue, we came out ahead!

And also, we all know Joe Johnson is a better player then Q. Whats your point there, cuz I dont get it? LeBron, Kobe and T-Mac are also better then Q. Doesnt mean we can get them for a 33 year old power forward does it?
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
bigpimpin
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6/29/2005  6:43 AM
You don't get it. and i don't have time to explain it to you.

i remember when we got the better of the marbury trade also.

listen kid, this was not a talent move for the suns but a business move. once you understand that basketball is not just about bouncing a leather ball then you can begin to see the economics of it.

the suns would have damn near given Q away before they risked losing joe johnson so it's not like they are losers just because he and you considered us to be the winners of this trade.

everytime the knicks make a trade i hear how the other team got robbed but both the bulls and the suns made the playoffs last year

maybe we need to get robbed sometimes. ya think
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
bigpimpin
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6/29/2005  6:49 AM
but just to show you how ingorant your post is--let me point this out to you

you say kurt is a 33 year old pf. so i take it that you mean he is on his last leg, right?

well explain to me how old man kurt got us a 25 year old player and the 21st pick in the first round?

it couldn't have been talent, right. okay then.

suns got eisley, ward, mcdyess, vujanic and lampe and first round picks in the marbury, penny trade but if that trade doesn't go through then they don't get nash or Q.

all that junk they got when we robbed them meant nothing to them because they were wanting to rid themselves of penny and marbury for a reason.

just as they wanted to rid themselves of Q for a reason

i'm trying to raise you the right way!

"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
diderotn
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6/29/2005  6:56 AM
The Suns may not make the playoffs next season. In the West, nothing is guaranty
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DarkKnicks
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6/29/2005  7:12 AM
And you are forgetting that they have now Dijoon Thompson. They wont miss Q Richardson, I think so.
bigpimpin
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6/29/2005  7:12 AM
i know. the spurs may not make the playoffs either.
"Anyone who sits around waiting to hit the lottery, whether basketball or real life, in order to better their position is a loser."
Marv
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6/29/2005  7:40 AM
Posted by bigpimpin:

i'm trying to raise you the right way!



there's one more factor - we were in such a RUT with KT as our center. guy gave his all and i have no problems with that or with him as an individual. but it's like an addiciton - we needed an intervention of this trade to finally face life without depending on him as our center and force us to do somehting about it.
firefly
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6/29/2005  8:18 AM
Posted by bigpimpin:

but just to show you how ingorant your post is--let me point this out to you

you say kurt is a 33 year old pf. so i take it that you mean he is on his last leg, right?

well explain to me how old man kurt got us a 25 year old player and the 21st pick in the first round?

it couldn't have been talent, right. okay then.

suns got eisley, ward, mcdyess, vujanic and lampe and first round picks in the marbury, penny trade but if that trade doesn't go through then they don't get nash or Q.

all that junk they got when we robbed them meant nothing to them because they were wanting to rid themselves of penny and marbury for a reason.

just as they wanted to rid themselves of Q for a reason

i'm trying to raise you the right way!

I appreciate the economics lesson, really I do. The fact that we got a player thats 8 years younger then KT was not to say that KT is on his last legs. As you say, basketball is a business, and it all pans out long term, not short term. Unlike the Marbury trade, when we gave them tremendous cap flexibility, KT is still on the hook for another what, 3 years? Whenever KT's body does decide to pack it in, Q's will be around 8 years longer. That makes long term sense. Also, we wont be on the hook when he's 36, and struggling to get out of bed in the morning, the Suns will.

So this deal is completely different to the first Suns trade, this was a talent swap, not a cap move. Agreed? Good.

Therefore I posit as follows. If A = KT talent and length of future, B = Q's and Nates talent and length of future and C = Extraneous considerations such as cap space and D = Extranteous considerations such as draft picks and cash, then in the absence of C, B+D>>>A.

Hows that? . So we screwed them.
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
Knixkik
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6/29/2005  8:23 AM
I understand this is a business move by Phoenix but they did give up a lot. There was a lot of talent in this draft and with the 21st pick, this was the perfect time for the Suns to get a quality player that would give them some depth. That was what hurt them in the playoffs. They better hope they can sign a couple good players for cheap to come off the bench, because that's the only way they're making it deep into the playoffs.
Panos
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6/29/2005  8:56 AM
Posted by Rich:

KT is going to look a lot better playing next to Amare, and Nash will get him a lot of open looks.

Yes, and KT was the 6th leading rebounder in the league last year.
Silverfuel
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6/29/2005  9:14 AM
I think the Knicks got the better deal too. The Suns figured Q is not as good at JJ and short to play SF so they traded him for KT. I dont think KT plays more than 20 mins there.
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MS
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6/29/2005  9:19 AM
The clippers let Q go for a reason his back, he is unisured and is an injury risk that the suns got rid of....if Isiah knew what he was doing in the draft this trade is a home run for the Knicks.....

Why not Hodge or Jack instead of Robinson, i don't get it we didn't need another player that can't shoot and is undersized he is a good defender but will get into mismatches all over the place
Marv
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6/29/2005  9:22 AM
Posted by MS:

The clippers let Q go for a reason his back, he is unisured and is an injury risk that the suns got rid of....if Isiah knew what he was doing in the draft this trade is a home run for the Knicks.....

Why not Hodge or Jack instead of Robinson, i don't get it we didn't need another player that can't shoot and is undersized he is a good defender but will get into mismatches all over the place

Hodge was gone.
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