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If IT picks Bynum and passes on Frye and Bynum is a bust and Frye a good player
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franco12
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6/27/2005  9:35 PM
will you kill him for the move. Essentially, if he were to come away with a stiff- a brendan haywood and Frye goes on to maybe not be an all star, but nearly great few seasons.

I don't and we can bookmark this thread
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Bonn1997
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6/27/2005  10:29 PM
I wouldn't be upset with Isiah. I want him to go for a high ceiling player. Based on what I've heard, I like both Frye and Bynum a lot but Bynum sounds like he has the higher ceiling. I think it would be the right idea to draft Bynum even if it didn't work out. I don't think it would be a bad decision to draft Frye, though. I'm not crazy about drafting swingmen with mid or high lottery picks because they're a dime a dozen. All it took was Kurt to get Q and a 1st rd pick.
Vmart
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6/27/2005  10:43 PM
Those are the chances you take. There is no way of tell who is going to be great and good.
Rich
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6/27/2005  10:49 PM
No.
rvhoss
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6/27/2005  11:03 PM
the question is, will you be upset if he drafts frye...the fact that you wouldn't be upset if bynum was a bust, kind of spares zeke the "he's an idiot for drafting frye"

Wouldn't you say?
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TMS
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6/27/2005  11:06 PM
i still don't think you can take a 3-4 year project with a #8 pick...if Isiah wants to move down to get Bynum, i'd be more inclined to excuse him if the pick didn't work out...but to take that big of a chance on a project when there are available players out there that can help you right away opens Isiah to criticism if Bynum turns out to be a bust just like i would have criticized Layden if he drafted a bust with the #9 pick a couple years ago...the time might be coming that i'll be posting up a few choice words on that topic as well this year unless Sweetney shapes up this year.

on the same token, i'd be more than happy if he took Greene, even though he might be somewhat of a project too...players like Kobe, T-Mac, etc. who are taken high in the draft have less of a hard time adjusting their games to the NBA level than bigmen out of HS like Kwame, Curry & Chandler have in recent years.

[Edited by - TMS on 06/27/2005 23:08:33]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Rich
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6/27/2005  11:10 PM
There is no evidence that Bynum couldn't contribute within a year. You get a solid player in his second year, and a potential star in year 3 or 4. That's a reasonable learning curve, and worth the 8th pick.
rvhoss
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6/27/2005  11:21 PM
Posted by Rich:

There is no evidence that Bynum couldn't contribute within a year. You get a solid player in his second year, and a potential star in year 3 or 4. That's a reasonable learning curve, and worth the 8th pick.

The evidence is that no high schooler ever has.

And with the exception of Kobe, none of them stay with the team that drafted them...why should we be the other teams farm system and end up with garbage or eventually over paid players (as washington, detroit and Chicago all have).

Take a player that can play (chicago and miami come to mind) projects are for teams with no revenue and are perenial losers.

I understand rebuilding and you guys all seem to think it means suck on purpose...Frye can play TODAY. Why throw away the 8th pick on a project.

Has a top 10 pick project pick ever paid off?
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Rich
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6/27/2005  11:26 PM
Posted by rvhoss:
Posted by Rich:

There is no evidence that Bynum couldn't contribute within a year. You get a solid player in his second year, and a potential star in year 3 or 4. That's a reasonable learning curve, and worth the 8th pick.

The evidence is that no high schooler ever has.

And with the exception of Kobe, none of them stay with the team that drafted them...why should we be the other teams farm system and end up with garbage or eventually over paid players (as washington, detroit and Chicago all have).

Take a player that can play (chicago and miami come to mind) projects are for teams with no revenue and are perenial losers.

I understand rebuilding and you guys all seem to think it means suck on purpose...Frye can play TODAY. Why throw away the 8th pick on a project.

Has a top 10 pick project pick ever paid off?

Amare? Howard? Garnett??
TMS
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6/27/2005  11:27 PM
Posted by Rich:

There is no evidence that Bynum couldn't contribute within a year. You get a solid player in his second year, and a potential star in year 3 or 4. That's a reasonable learning curve, and worth the 8th pick.

nothing i've read says that Bynum will end up being a stud like Kevin Garnett, Amare Stoudamire or Dwight Howard straight out of HS & i don't know enough about him to make any projections either way...all i know is that everything i've been reading on the kid says that he's a 3-4 year project who doesn't carry any guarantees that he'll end up being an allstar level player someday...give me some proof i should believe you that he's 1 year away from being a contributor within a year's time & a star in 3 or 4 & mnaybe i'll rethink my stance.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Rich
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6/27/2005  11:36 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Rich:

There is no evidence that Bynum couldn't contribute within a year. You get a solid player in his second year, and a potential star in year 3 or 4. That's a reasonable learning curve, and worth the 8th pick.

nothing i've read says that Bynum will end up being a stud like Kevin Garnett, Amare Stoudamire or Dwight Howard straight out of HS & i don't know enough about him to make any projections either way...all i know is that everything i've been reading on the kid says that he's a 3-4 year project who doesn't carry any guarantees that he'll end up being an allstar level player someday...give me some proof i should believe you that he's 1 year away from being a contributor within a year's time & a star in 3 or 4 & mnaybe i'll rethink my stance.

I think being able to play in the NBDL will flatten his learning curve. He has skill, size, and strength. All he needs is to develop his game.
Rich
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6/28/2005  2:05 AM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/49094.htm

[...]

Trade or no trade (the Pacers also are strongly pursuing Magloire), New Orleans is taking Paul at No. 4 if he's still on the board, and Deron Williams if not. Should they obtain No. 7 and more for Magloire, look for them to snatch Frye, whom the Knicks supposedly want, though, Andrew Bynum is the name on a lot of loose lips lately if Green and Webster both are gone.
MS
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6/28/2005  8:56 AM
HE gets a pass
fishmike
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6/28/2005  9:01 AM
Posted by Rich:

I think being able to play in the NBDL will flatten his learning curve. He has skill, size, and strength. All he needs is to develop his game.
great point... the Knicks could send him down, have him play 30-35 minutes a night and bring up after 2-3 months at the all star break.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Nalod
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6/28/2005  9:13 AM
OF course we frye his ass for making the wrong pick. He gets paid 4 million a year to wear cool suits, eat popcorn and put in as much time as we do phucking around with trades and Sht!

Someone is always accountable!

Just like last year I gave him kudos for trying to convert a bunch of overpaid soft dudes into a team, but it did not work. So I give him kudos if he is infact going a different direction. He messed up, so what, we all do.

I doubt both Frye and Bynum are both on the board when we pick. IF they are, then I'll back who is the knick, but if one busts and the ohter stars for 15 years, he is going to kick himself, and we'll help him. Id rather gamble on Bynum than play it safe. Its my nature and in my business I succeed what I do because I understand there is a percentage of failure and it happens. If you lament on that only, you get paralyzed.

Fear of regret drives most people's decisions.

Isiah and other gm's make damm good money and if succeed will be a hero. If not, he will have been paid 16 million over 4 years and will get grilled. Circle of life.
franco12
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6/28/2005  9:31 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Rich:

There is no evidence that Bynum couldn't contribute within a year. You get a solid player in his second year, and a potential star in year 3 or 4. That's a reasonable learning curve, and worth the 8th pick.

nothing i've read says that Bynum will end up being a stud like Kevin Garnett, Amare Stoudamire or Dwight Howard straight out of HS & i don't know enough about him to make any projections either way...all i know is that everything i've been reading on the kid says that he's a 3-4 year project who doesn't carry any guarantees that he'll end up being an allstar level player someday...give me some proof i should believe you that he's 1 year away from being a contributor within a year's time & a star in 3 or 4 & mnaybe i'll rethink my stance.

we clearly don't have access to the kind of information that would help us make this decision- only the scouts and gms that have seen him can base a judgement on where he might be.

But, if there was information accessible to answer this question for us, clearly available in the papers and the like, I think you would be looking at a scenario where he'd be off the board by 8.
rvhoss
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6/28/2005  9:34 AM
if he is there at 8, then where is something wrong with him.
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Nalod
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6/28/2005  9:44 AM
So if he is gone, we should have gotten him, but if he is still there at 8, he is defective? Ok!
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If IT picks Bynum and passes on Frye and Bynum is a bust and Frye a good player
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