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W'happen if Bynum and Frye and gone, and KT is traded?
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Nalod
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6/27/2005  2:00 PM

Who will be our center? For that matter, if Bynum and Frye is drafted, are they even close to being ready.

Food for thought, who is our starting center.

TT is the tallest roster player right now!

Bynum and Sweets starting front line?

Great upside, but we lotto bound! Thats the reality of rebuilding!
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fishmike
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6/27/2005  2:07 PM
if they were both gone I would be very tempted to draft Ike. Not just because we have a need there but because I think he's worth it. In terms of who will play center I think he could more in and give you what KT did in terms of production right away.

I have heard a lot of people say 8 is much to high but he's better than Simien, Fran Vasquez, Frye, or any of the other bigs on the board. 6'8 with a 7'5 wingspan isnt small. This guy has twice the motor that Frye has.
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Knicksfan
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6/27/2005  4:01 PM
We take Bynum with pick #8 and we either use him as a 10-15 mins backup or not play him at all, maybe putting him on that NBDL we are later assigned. Don't know. But we would probably sign a C as a F/A and use him as a starter. Butler would have to be ready for next season and would probably be the first C backup. Then expect that we play Taylor, Sweets or Rose some minutes at C...
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simrud
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6/27/2005  4:05 PM
If both of them are really gone, it would be wonderful.

It would mean we are getting someone like Green/Granger/Webster/Wright/Graham instead, all of whomm will most likely be allstars in the future.

And we will suck bad enough next to actually get a top 3 pick and get our big man then.

Hopefully we'll trade Marbury at the deadline for cap releaf and picks and continue the rebuilding.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
crzymdups
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6/27/2005  4:06 PM
there are plenty of FA who can play center this summer. and most will be in the MLE range.

Gadzuric, Hunter, Chris Andersen, Kwame, Zydrunas (unrestricted and has said he only want a MLE to go where he wants), Reggie Evans, Curry, Stromile...
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djsunyc
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6/27/2005  4:12 PM
i think we should, especially if we can't draft either big, go hard after boozer. he gives us some toughness inside and then follow that up by throwing the MLE at those mentioned already - gadz, hunter, kwame, etc.

but we have two VERY big contracts to get a center (i am VERY fearful that it will be Z when all is said and done), in penny and tim so we WILL overpay for somebody to man the middle - hopefully it would be worth it...
rvhoss
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6/27/2005  4:22 PM
Posted by simrud:


Hopefully we'll trade Marbury at the deadline for cap releaf and picks and continue the rebuilding.

I was with you until "Hopefully we'll trade marbury"

Please tell me you just hate marbury and honestly don't think it's a good idea to trade him for "cap relief"

Who's gonna do that for cap relief (for one) and why wouldn't we trade tim thomas or Penny instead?

other than that, I was with you in spirit.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 06/27/2005 16:23:25]
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Pharzeone
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6/27/2005  4:25 PM
I would sign Kwame Brown with the MLE, get some left for Ariza and Butler. I am ready to let Jackie Butler man the middle. Are we rebuilding or what. I mean this guy already dominated the NBDL, why should he be down there. I don't care who comes along. They still need to battle JB for the center position. If the Knicks draft Bynum send him downt to the NBDL and let him dominate like Butler was able to do, then bring him up. The same for Frye. If they can't then the joke is on us because Jackie was able to do that out of HS. As far as I am concern this guy is like a bonus 1st round pick.
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purple012870
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6/27/2005  4:35 PM
You're ready to let Jackie Butler be the man in the middle??? And is Scottie Brooks available to start at point guard??? Butler went undrafted, played what, 7 minutes as a pro, no college, a solid reputation as a below average prospect. Oh yeah....he's ready.
rvhoss
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6/27/2005  4:41 PM
deja vu...I'm just seeing Bynum separate himself...if putting up big numbers in college is indicative of success, then the Knick coaches just refused to use Jackie:

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/jackiebutler.asp

Weaknesses: Post game is still very raw and needs work. In high school he could use his strength to get whenever he needed to (that won't be the case in the NBA). Footwork also needs improvement.... Could have done himself some good by going to college however he should still be drafted. At times he's very inconsistent and lazy on defense, especially in transition. Needs to work harder and get into better shape.

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/andrewbynum.asp

Weaknesses: Raw is the word. While he has been productive in high school, the NBA is a different world. He will be facing players his size on a regular basis. Offensively, his footwork needs much tooling…he rarely shoots the ball outside of the paint. His size won't allow him to dominate like he did in HS. He could really use a small set jumper or another post move. In addition his passing out of the post is very poor and his understanding of defenses is an area of need...Defensively, he needs to move his feet more and become more active. As a rebounder he needs to learn to get in proper position and not rely on his size and athleticism. Additionally, he must stop picking up silly fouls, especially on the offensive end…Lastly, there have been concerns about his weight and conditioning.



[Edited by - rvhoss on 06/27/2005 16:44:15]
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Knick2001
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6/27/2005  4:41 PM
I would sign Kwame Brown with the MLE, get some left for Ariza and Butler.

Exactly what I've been saying. I'd rather offer the MLE to Kwame or do a sound and trade with the Wizards regardless if we draft Frye or Bynum.
Bonn1997
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6/27/2005  5:06 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

I would sign Kwame Brown with the MLE, get some left for Ariza and Butler. I am ready to let Jackie Butler man the middle.
There's no way there will be MLE money left over for those two. We'll be lucky if we can get Kwame for a five year MLE deal because other teams may offer more. The MLE will probably be around 5 years, $30 mil. It's not a huge risk for a young big man with his potential. I'd still offer him the full MLE. You can use the LLE on Butler and not exercise Ariza's team option or you can use the LLE on Ariza and probably re-sign Bulter for the league min.
Bonn1997
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6/27/2005  5:10 PM
The Knicks still have the MLE, the LLE, 3 draft picks this year, and $30 mil in expiring contracts to get center(s). Whether the trade is official or not by the draft, would have no impact on my draft strategy because Q should be part of the long-term plan and I have little doubt the team can get an adequate C for next year.

[Edited by - Bonn1997 on 06/27/2005 17:10:49]
Pharzeone
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6/27/2005  5:16 PM
Posted by purple012870:

You're ready to let Jackie Butler be the man in the middle??? And is Scottie Brooks available to start at point guard??? Butler went undrafted, played what, 7 minutes as a pro, no college, a solid reputation as a below average prospect. Oh yeah....he's ready.
Again my question is 'are we rebuilding or what?' Cause if we are rebuilding I don't need to see anymore Vin Bakers in here. I don't mind going with guys that still have potential to do something, like a Kwame Brown. But no guys like Z with his injury troubles.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Knicksfan
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6/27/2005  5:20 PM
Posted by rvhoss:

deja vu...I'm just seeing Bynum separate himself...if putting up big numbers in college is indicative of success, then the Knick coaches just refused to use Jackie:

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/jackiebutler.asp

Weaknesses: Post game is still very raw and needs work. In high school he could use his strength to get whenever he needed to (that won't be the case in the NBA). Footwork also needs improvement.... Could have done himself some good by going to college however he should still be drafted. At times he's very inconsistent and lazy on defense, especially in transition. Needs to work harder and get into better shape.

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/andrewbynum.asp

Weaknesses: Raw is the word. While he has been productive in high school, the NBA is a different world. He will be facing players his size on a regular basis. Offensively, his footwork needs much tooling…he rarely shoots the ball outside of the paint. His size won't allow him to dominate like he did in HS. He could really use a small set jumper or another post move. In addition his passing out of the post is very poor and his understanding of defenses is an area of need...Defensively, he needs to move his feet more and become more active. As a rebounder he needs to learn to get in proper position and not rely on his size and athleticism. Additionally, he must stop picking up silly fouls, especially on the offensive end…Lastly, there have been concerns about his weight and conditioning.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 06/27/2005 16:44:15]

Thanks for posting this, I wanted to read something about Butler. Hmm... listed as 6'9"...
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Bonn1997
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6/27/2005  5:21 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by purple012870:

You're ready to let Jackie Butler be the man in the middle??? And is Scottie Brooks available to start at point guard??? Butler went undrafted, played what, 7 minutes as a pro, no college, a solid reputation as a below average prospect. Oh yeah....he's ready.
Again my question is 'are we rebuilding or what?' Cause if we are rebuilding I don't need to see anymore Vin Bakers in here. I don't mind going with guys that still have potential to do something, like a Kwame Brown. But no guys like Z with his injury troubles.
Injury troubles that never cause him to miss games?
Bonn1997
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6/27/2005  5:24 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by rvhoss:

deja vu...I'm just seeing Bynum separate himself...if putting up big numbers in college is indicative of success, then the Knick coaches just refused to use Jackie:

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/jackiebutler.asp

Weaknesses: Post game is still very raw and needs work. In high school he could use his strength to get whenever he needed to (that won't be the case in the NBA). Footwork also needs improvement.... Could have done himself some good by going to college however he should still be drafted. At times he's very inconsistent and lazy on defense, especially in transition. Needs to work harder and get into better shape.

http://nbadraft.net/profiles/andrewbynum.asp

Weaknesses: Raw is the word. While he has been productive in high school, the NBA is a different world. He will be facing players his size on a regular basis. Offensively, his footwork needs much tooling…he rarely shoots the ball outside of the paint. His size won't allow him to dominate like he did in HS. He could really use a small set jumper or another post move. In addition his passing out of the post is very poor and his understanding of defenses is an area of need...Defensively, he needs to move his feet more and become more active. As a rebounder he needs to learn to get in proper position and not rely on his size and athleticism. Additionally, he must stop picking up silly fouls, especially on the offensive end…Lastly, there have been concerns about his weight and conditioning.

[Edited by - rvhoss on 06/27/2005 16:44:15]

Thanks for posting this, I wanted to read something about Butler. Hmm... listed as 6'9"...
I think he measured 6'9.5" in the pre-draft measuerments. But he's young and may be still growing. He looks very strong. I don't think his size would be a problem playing center.
Knicksfan
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6/27/2005  5:26 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by purple012870:

You're ready to let Jackie Butler be the man in the middle??? And is Scottie Brooks available to start at point guard??? Butler went undrafted, played what, 7 minutes as a pro, no college, a solid reputation as a below average prospect. Oh yeah....he's ready.
Again my question is 'are we rebuilding or what?' Cause if we are rebuilding I don't need to see anymore Vin Bakers in here. I don't mind going with guys that still have potential to do something, like a Kwame Brown. But no guys like Z with his injury troubles.

Isiah has been going young in most of his trades. Its unlikely he signs an old one..
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simrud
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6/27/2005  5:59 PM
The main reason I want us to trade Marbury for future asstes such as picks and cap releaf is because by the time we are good, he will be way past his prime and probably broken down from having to play for 40 minutes a night so we can pretend we are competing for the 8th seed evere year until mathematical elimenatiion.

He deserves better.

And yes, I don't like his game, or his atitude.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
W'happen if Bynum and Frye and gone, and KT is traded?

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