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If it's agreed that we should take BPA
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metra
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6/27/2005  1:32 PM
then why are we thinking of drafting Bynum or Frye? Ok, not many fans want Frye. But they should also not want Bynum.

- Draft Frye, he plays 10-20 mpg averaging maybe 8/6. Those numbers dont get much better since he's tapped almost all of his potential. Result? We keep losing, especially the next two years.

- Draft Bynum, he doesnt play next year and possibly gets 10-20 mpg the year after averaging possibly 8/6. Then he might get good and become a dominant big or.. he flops. Result? We keep losing, especially the first year.

Now consider this third option: drafting the truly best player available.

- Draft an SF/big SG in Green, Granger, Graham, maybe Webster or Wright. They get a lot of PT, develop, and really contribute. Result? The same as the other options since we still dont have a big. However Isiah take his time and through our slump he finds a big who can really turn the team around. We might also get a nice pick in the 07 draft.

Instead of gambling with role players and Dasagna Diops, we get players who will be good and who will be a major force of the team. And we get proven bigs through FA or trades. If the result is the same for the first couple of years, why not choose the option where the risk/reward is set on medium?

(Frye is low risk low reward. Bynum is high risk high reward. Granger is medium risk, medium to high reward.)

[Edited by - metra on 06/27/2005 13:33:26]
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fishmike
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6/27/2005  1:59 PM
define BPA... right now or are you talking about a player's ceiling? I love Granger... one of my favorite guys and would be very happy with that pick. Can he ever dominate like a 7'1 highly skilled center? The buzz on Bynum is he's more than just a big guy.

Let me ask you this? Who is a better talent evaluator than Jim Calhoun? Because JC said Bynum would be a top pick in a year or two. Take what Briggs says with a grain of salt. Who doesnt... but when JC says something like that you listen because this guy knows talent better than anyone in game.

[Edited by - fishmike on 06/27/2005 14:02:16]
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crzymdups
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6/27/2005  2:06 PM
Posted by fishmike:

define BPA... right now or are you talking about a player's ceiling? I love Granger... one of my favorite guys and would be very happy with that pick. Can he ever dominate like a 7'1 highly skilled center? The buzz on Bynum is he's just a big guy.

Let me ask you this? Who is a better talent evaluator than Jim Calhoun? Because JC said Bynum would be a top pick in a year or two. Take what Briggs says with a grain of salt. Who doesnt... but when JC says something like that you listen because this guy knows talent better than anyone in game.

Hell, Bynum is practically a top 1 or 2 pick now, he might go 3. But he's a prospect, not a finished player. To me, just because he is picked that high doesn't make it a lock that he'll be good. Look at Bowie and Curry.

Yeah, I think people have different ideas of BPA - best ceiling or best right now?

I honestly think that if Zeke takes Frye at 8, it's because he thinks of him as BPA. Granger is a nice prospect, but he's not an uber athlete and he put up his numbers in a weak conference. He looked great, but against who? Graham proved himself in a tough conference, but at the PF when he'll be an NBA SF. Green is a high schooler who has all the athleticism in the world, but maturity/skill questions. Let's not act like all these guys everyone here is hot for are perfect. They are prospects with some serious upside, and some serious flaws. Frye has just as much upside and just as many flaws. If Zeke thinks he's BPA, I'm very happy. If Zeke thinks someone else is BPA and takes him, I'm going to be happy with that and see how it works out. I just don't want to see a panic pick if our guy is off the board.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/27/2005 14:07:00]
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metra
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6/27/2005  2:48 PM
The common knock on Bynum is our lack of info on him. Barely anyone has seen him play and we can recite what's said about him effortlessly (mainly because of Briggs's touting and lack of info on DraftExpress): big, 17, nice hands, rivals #1, lost weight, JC likes him.

To me, these accolades are not enough if we havent seen him play in more than half an hour.

BPA is tough to define IMO. Someone like Marvin, who came off the bench, is getting drafted 1 or 2. Thats because everyone almost knows his potential and that he will fulfill that potential. However, unlike Marvin, Bynum wasnt televised nationally every time he played. He's just too much of a mystery for me to consider as the BPA and take with the eigth pick.

crzymdups, I completely agree that just bc someone is drafted high it doesnt mean he'll be good. And I agree each of the players I listed have flaws, it just seems that Frye's flaws are even bigger.

I believe its easier for Graham to adjust his game and Green to keep his head on his shoulders than for Bynum to master the use of his body.
gunsnewing
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6/27/2005  2:51 PM
Posted by fishmike:

define BPA... right now or are you talking about a player's ceiling? I love Granger... one of my favorite guys and would be very happy with that pick. Can he ever dominate like a 7'1 highly skilled center? The buzz on Bynum is he's more than just a big guy.

Let me ask you this? Who is a better talent evaluator than Jim Calhoun? Because JC said Bynum would be a top pick in a year or two. Take what Briggs says with a grain of salt. Who doesnt... but when JC says something like that you listen because this guy knows talent better than anyone in game.

[Edited by - fishmike on 06/27/2005 14:02:16]

my exact response!

[Edited by - gunsnewing on 06/27/2005 14:56:10]
Knick2001
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6/27/2005  2:54 PM
Those numbers dont get much better since he's tapped almost all of his potential. Result? We keep losing, especially the next two years.

Purely subjective. Based on what information.

[Edited by - knick2001 on 06/27/2005 14:55:42]
gunsnewing
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6/27/2005  2:55 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by fishmike:

define BPA... right now or are you talking about a player's ceiling? I love Granger... one of my favorite guys and would be very happy with that pick. Can he ever dominate like a 7'1 highly skilled center? The buzz on Bynum is he's just a big guy.

Let me ask you this? Who is a better talent evaluator than Jim Calhoun? Because JC said Bynum would be a top pick in a year or two. Take what Briggs says with a grain of salt. Who doesnt... but when JC says something like that you listen because this guy knows talent better than anyone in game.

Hell, Bynum is practically a top 1 or 2 pick now, he might go 3. But he's a prospect, not a finished player. To me, just because he is picked that high doesn't make it a lock that he'll be good. Look at Bowie and Curry.

Yeah, I think people have different ideas of BPA - best ceiling or best right now?

I honestly think that if Zeke takes Frye at 8, it's because he thinks of him as BPA. Granger is a nice prospect, but he's not an uber athlete and he put up his numbers in a weak conference. He looked great, but against who? Graham proved himself in a tough conference, but at the PF when he'll be an NBA SF. Green is a high schooler who has all the athleticism in the world, but maturity/skill questions. Let's not act like all these guys everyone here is hot for are perfect. They are prospects with some serious upside, and some serious flaws. Frye has just as much upside and just as many flaws. If Zeke thinks he's BPA, I'm very happy. If Zeke thinks someone else is BPA and takes him, I'm going to be happy with that and see how it works out. I just don't want to see a panic pick if our guy is off the board.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 06/27/2005 14:07:00]

I don't think anyone of those guys you mentioned have any serious flaws. Warrick, May, Frye & the one-dimensional jumpshooting Webster have serious flows
metra
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6/27/2005  2:58 PM
Posted by Knick2001:

snip

Purely subjective. Based on what information.

[Edited by - knick2001 on 06/27/2005 14:55:42]

His numbers from junior year to senior year are EXACTLY the same.
Knick2001
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6/27/2005  3:08 PM
His numbers from junior year to senior year are EXACTLY the same.

We've been this statistical thing with Frye too many times already. The guy had a great NCAA playoff run and more importantly has worked out well for teams, nuff said for me.
crzymdups
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6/27/2005  3:11 PM
Posted by gunsnewing:


I don't think anyone of those guys you mentioned have any serious flaws. Warrick, May, Frye & the one-dimensional jumpshooting Webster have serious flows

if they don't have flaws, why do most people have Graham going in the mid-first round? why is Green dropping? Why isn't Granger higher?


please, these guys all have questions. if there were really no question about them being superstars, you think MARVIN WILLIAMS would be going ahead of them? please.
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crzymdups
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6/27/2005  3:13 PM
Posted by metra:
Posted by Knick2001:

snip

Purely subjective. Based on what information.

[Edited by - knick2001 on 06/27/2005 14:55:42]

His numbers from junior year to senior year are EXACTLY the same.

yeah, that doesn't have anything to do with the system he was in...
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Knicksfan
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6/27/2005  3:31 PM
Well, who knows who is the BPA yet when we don't know who will be avaliable. Bynum is an intriguing prospect, but so are many other guys that could be avaliable. If someone asked you who would you take between a 7 footer that has the upside to be an All Star or a SG that has the potential to be great, maybe you would go by logic and select the big man. Maybe then you would miss on a guy like Jordan. Maybe the big man could become a bust, like many have. He wasn't selected 1st overall, so somewhere scouts made something wrong. Anyway, the point is that its so difficult to see who will be the best prospect that thats what makes these guys prospects, and this a draft.
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metra
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6/27/2005  6:11 PM
Even if you weren't drafting BPA, Frye isn't what we need.

A skinny big can only compliment a real center, he can never hold his own. Just by logic you know he won't be able to stand up to Amare, TD, Shaq, KG, or any other dominant big man. Frye is an ectomorph and I guarantee you he won't gain weight.

1. Since Frye was hyped up to the lottery, specifically #8 or 9, because of need rather than ability and 2. because no team can survive with out a powerful man inside (not Frye, more like Boozer) then we shouldn't draft him. UNLESS Isiah has Boozer or some powerful center in mind.
rain
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6/27/2005  6:35 PM
Posted by metra:



- Draft Frye, he plays 10-20 mpg averaging maybe 8/6. Those numbers dont get much better since he's tapped almost all of his potential. Result? We keep losing, especially the next two years.

[Edited by - metra on 06/27/2005 13:33:26]

The impression that Frye has little upside is unfounded.

His athletic prowess.. the justification used to determine Bynum's upside.. is very good. He actually has data that suggests he has turned the corner. He's polished in the post, has great fundamentals..

Which big man in this years draft, has more athletic upside than Fry?

Can you name one?


[Edited by - rain on 06/27/2005 18:38:20]
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