Panos wrote:Bump.
This team ain't got it. Brunson is a ****ing ball hog, and the supporting staff needs to step up, not throw the ball away on every possession and wtf was i watching to tonight. Terrible And predictable train wreck

We just don’t have enough shot creation. Whether it’s in the starting lineup or off the bench, we need someone who can handle the ball besides Brunson. Brunson is a ball hog because literally no one on the team can create real space off the dribble other than him. And no one tell me Kolek. I’m talking guys who can dribble and get a good shot. McBride has turned into a pumpkin for whatever ability he had before injury. We need a real offensive spark plug.

Knixkik wrote:

Panos wrote:Bump.
This team ain't got it. Brunson is a ****ing ball hog, and the supporting staff needs to step up, not throw the ball away on every possession and wtf was i watching to tonight. Terrible And predictable train wreck

We just don’t have enough shot creation. Whether it’s in the starting lineup or off the bench, we need someone who can handle the ball besides Brunson. Brunson is a ball hog because literally no one on the team can create real space off the dribble other than him. And no one tell me Kolek. I’m talking guys who can dribble and get a good shot. McBride has turned into a pumpkin for whatever ability he had before injury. We need a real offensive spark plug.

We have not had the best version of Shamet since he was out a bit. Basicalluy knicks have enough talent to play him and deuce into shape/groove as playoffs go along. We need them to go deep. If not, well we saw what happens. GTA was given minutes to little effect. Lot of blame to go around. Our bench did not get it done.

Can we trade deuce? He’s the only guy of real value I wouldn’t miss. I like him but he’s a bad fit for this teams needs

Chandler wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Panos wrote:Bump.
This team ain't got it. Brunson is a ****ing ball hog, and the supporting staff needs to step up, not throw the ball away on every possession and wtf was i watching to tonight. Terrible And predictable train wreck

We just don’t have enough shot creation. Whether it’s in the starting lineup or off the bench, we need someone who can handle the ball besides Brunson. Brunson is a ball hog because literally no one on the team can create real space off the dribble other than him. And no one tell me Kolek. I’m talking guys who can dribble and get a good shot. McBride has turned into a pumpkin for whatever ability he had before injury. We need a real offensive spark plug.

We have not had the best version of Shamet since he was out a bit. Basicalluy knicks have enough talent to play him and deuce into shape/groove as playoffs go along. We need them to go deep. If not, well we saw what happens. GTA was given minutes to little effect. Lot of blame to go around. Our bench did not get it done.

Agreed. Deuce and Shamet have not been good since their injuries and it’s starting to matter.

Deuce has no idea what to do when the ball is in his hands. I don’t think that’s an injury thing unless he hurt his head

He’s a short SG. Bad fit on this roster

The lineup numbers suggest he’s really a great fit, but I see your point. He’s not tall and he’s not a shot-creator. We need elite shooting from Deuce and Shamet along with their defense if we are going to beat good teams. We simply can’t rely on 5 starters who haven’t been great together all season plus Mitch. If we don’t get more from them this is a major problem and the bench probably gets completely rebuilt this summer, along with possibly much more of the roster.

BlueKnickers wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:Lets stop beating around the bush.....The problem is Brunson and Brown. These 4th quarter collapses playing "hero ball" has been an issue all season and no one seems interested in addressing it

I have been saying it since mid-season, but these last two games is the first time most people are coming to understand what I've been saying.

Unless he changes his mindset, you cannot build a championship roster around Jalen Brunson as the primary ball handler.

Brunson has had two seasons with KAT and he still cannot figure it out, so odds are he never will.

The now radical suggestion I have that almost no one will think is reasonable until we bomb out of the playoffs is to trade Brunson.

If these hero ball collapses occur a few more times then there will be many people agreeing with me.

As much as I hate him, imagine Haliburton assisting all our shooters all over the court. It would be Showtime Lakers

BlueKnickers wrote:

Panos wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:Lets stop beating around the bush.....The problem is Brunson and Brown. These 4th quarter collapses playing "hero ball" has been an issue all season and no one seems interested in addressing it

I have been saying it since mid-season, but these last two games is the first time most people are coming to understand what I've been saying.

Unless he changes his mindset, you cannot build a championship roster around Jalen Brunson as the primary ball handler.

Brunson has had two seasons with KAT and he still cannot figure it out, so odds are he never will.

The now radical suggestion I have that almost no one will think is reasonable until we bomb out of the playoffs is to trade Brunson.

If these hero ball collapses occur a few more times then there will be many people agreeing with me.

As much as I hate him, imagine Haliburton assisting all our shooters all over the court. It would be Showtime Lakers

This team would be way better with Halliburton replacing Brunson, there's no question about it.

Personality wise it's a losing trade, but if you want to win a chip that's clearly a better team.

Haliburton is a totally different fit, but I still favor Brunson because of the shot creation. The problem with this roster is we don’t have another shot creator. So it falls on Brunson. Haliburton is great but Siakam and Nembhard can get shots when they need to. No other Knick can. I get that we have hit that stage of Brunson’s Knicks career similar to Melo and Ewing where he’s judged negatively after not winning a title, but he’s one of the best 4th quarter players of all time. There’s bigger issues on this team.

BlueKnickers wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Panos wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:Lets stop beating around the bush.....The problem is Brunson and Brown. These 4th quarter collapses playing "hero ball" has been an issue all season and no one seems interested in addressing it

I have been saying it since mid-season, but these last two games is the first time most people are coming to understand what I've been saying.

Unless he changes his mindset, you cannot build a championship roster around Jalen Brunson as the primary ball handler.

Brunson has had two seasons with KAT and he still cannot figure it out, so odds are he never will.

The now radical suggestion I have that almost no one will think is reasonable until we bomb out of the playoffs is to trade Brunson.

If these hero ball collapses occur a few more times then there will be many people agreeing with me.

As much as I hate him, imagine Haliburton assisting all our shooters all over the court. It would be Showtime Lakers

This team would be way better with Halliburton replacing Brunson, there's no question about it.

Personality wise it's a losing trade, but if you want to win a chip that's clearly a better team.

Haliburton is a totally different fit, but I still favor Brunson because of the shot creation. The problem with this roster is we don’t have another shot creator. So it falls on Brunson. Haliburton is great but Siakam and Nembhard can get shots when they need to. No other Knick can. I get that we have hit that stage of Brunson’s Knicks career similar to Melo and Ewing where he’s judged negatively after not winning a title, but he’s one of the best 4th quarter players of all time. There’s bigger issues on this team.

There is no bigger issue than not being able to build around the player your team is built around.

I agree with your view KAT needs to be the alpha or at least more and Brunson needs to facilitate this.
Im sure we are all over reacting to a bad loss the other night to some degree.

Turned on the ORL-Det game at half time which was tied enough to see the brilliant destruction in the 3rd period. They simply ****ed them up! Duncan Freaking Robinson was the man. As good as Cade is, they play a formula of ball movement that gets the best of each. Very pretty to watch when its clicking. Winning 60 games was no fluke.
I know we put a lot **** on Brunson when he is off or being defended well and the ISO is not there but as said he is an elite closer.
WE have seen Knicks ball moving well and can't say they were not getting good shots vs. ATL Tuesday that normally fall. WE gonna fire the coach, rip the roster out based on one game? WE lose this series then perhaps.

Nalod wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Panos wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:Lets stop beating around the bush.....The problem is Brunson and Brown. These 4th quarter collapses playing "hero ball" has been an issue all season and no one seems interested in addressing it

I have been saying it since mid-season, but these last two games is the first time most people are coming to understand what I've been saying.

Unless he changes his mindset, you cannot build a championship roster around Jalen Brunson as the primary ball handler.

Brunson has had two seasons with KAT and he still cannot figure it out, so odds are he never will.

The now radical suggestion I have that almost no one will think is reasonable until we bomb out of the playoffs is to trade Brunson.

If these hero ball collapses occur a few more times then there will be many people agreeing with me.

As much as I hate him, imagine Haliburton assisting all our shooters all over the court. It would be Showtime Lakers

This team would be way better with Halliburton replacing Brunson, there's no question about it.

Personality wise it's a losing trade, but if you want to win a chip that's clearly a better team.

Haliburton is a totally different fit, but I still favor Brunson because of the shot creation. The problem with this roster is we don’t have another shot creator. So it falls on Brunson. Haliburton is great but Siakam and Nembhard can get shots when they need to. No other Knick can. I get that we have hit that stage of Brunson’s Knicks career similar to Melo and Ewing where he’s judged negatively after not winning a title, but he’s one of the best 4th quarter players of all time. There’s bigger issues on this team.

There is no bigger issue than not being able to build around the player your team is built around.

I agree with your view KAT needs to be the alpha or at least more and Brunson needs to facilitate this.
Im sure we are all over reacting to a bad loss the other night to some degree.

Turned on the ORL-Det game at half time which was tied enough to see the brilliant destruction in the 3rd period. They simply ****ed them up! Duncan Freaking Robinson was the man. As good as Cade is, they play a formula of ball movement that gets the best of each. Very pretty to watch when its clicking. Winning 60 games was no fluke.
I know we put a lot **** on Brunson when he is off or being defended well and the ISO is not there but as said he is an elite closer.
WE have seen Knicks ball moving well and can't say they were not getting good shots vs. ATL Tuesday that normally fall. WE gonna fire the coach, rip the roster out based on one game? WE lose this series then perhaps.

Yes, KAT should be the alpha. Etc, etc, etc you and I agree but basic basketball IQ is not manifesting on the court yet. It is getting late for that.

TBH, I think you just like to keep all possible outcomes open because it pains you to come to a strong conclusion about the failures of this version of the Knicks.

That strikes me as a different attitude than believing in this version of the Knicks.

I see no reason to believe in this version of the Knicks and I have not seen anyone make a good case for why this squad is championship quality.

There is nothing premature about declaring this version of the Knicks a dysfunctional mess.

They put together a decent regular season record due to a reasonably high level of talent in a mediocre league.

Talent doesn't mean sh!t in the playoffs when you play teams with greater discipline and execution.

Saying don't over-react or the sky isn't falling or it isn't over until the fat lady sings are not reasonable responses any longer considering what a sh!t brand of basketball this team plays.

This team looks like they don't understand the fundamentals of the game. They just rely on individual effort to overcome adversity. That is both stupid and it is boring as hell to watch.

How do you maintain any expectation these guys can contend? It boggles my mind that anyone is actually hopeful they are going anywhere this season

If they make it to finals I'll eat a giant plate of crow. Trust me, I'd be glad to be wrong. However, I doubt the crow population is cowering in fear right now.

Get an innovative coach who doesn't allow players to dictate how to play the game.

Thibs let Brunson run the show. Brown ended up doing exactly the same.

The ONLY way you could conceivably get a team into true contention with Brunson as the heart of the offense is by playing the kind of basketball Brown was signed to implement in the first place.

They played that brand of ball the first few weeks of this season and it was a breath of fresh air. Brunson was not running out the clock, he was making his ISO moves earlier in the clock or getting rid of the ball quickly. The ball zipped around the court and everyone was involved. OG was playing like an all-star and KAT was involved more than the previous year.

Then pffffftt it just vanished like air out of a balloon. Brunson went back to ISO ball and here we are.

Either Brunson needs to reform himself or you need a stronger coach who will not bow to the whims of their stars and get total buy-in. Only then can you build around Brunson.

But if you keep getting wimpy coaches, and yes Thibs was a wimp too, some of you think he was some kind of tough guy which is nonsense. He was too lazy to run offensive sets. Having Brunson was like getting a lap dance from a young Derrick Rose which meant he could say "it's your ball, go make something happen" which is what lazy coaches do. Because young Rose and prime Brunson are exciting players who will win you a good share of games due to their fearless attack. But it is not a strategy. It is just singular talents doing their thing. That's not coaching. It's capitulation.

Get a coach with both a vision to move the ball and the spine to enforce that vision and maybe then you can contend with Brunson. Short of that, this team won't sniff a chip with Brunson. Get over your attachment to Brunson. I get it, you love him, but the way he plays now he is not a franchise player unless he has a sharp horse bit in his mouth and a coach with a whip to guide him. Brunson is not a Kobe or a Jordan. He clearly needs a higher authority to guide him.

Panos wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:There is only one other response to what I have to said to all of you:

Get an innovative coach who doesn't allow players to dictate how to play the game.

Thibs let Brunson run the show. Brown ended up doing exactly the same.

The ONLY way you could conceivably get a team into true contention with Brunson as the heart of the offense is by playing the kind of basketball Brown was signed to implement in the first place.

They played that brand of ball the first few weeks of this season and it was a breath of fresh air. Brunson was not running out the clock, he was making his ISO moves earlier in the clock or getting rid of the ball quickly. The ball zipped around the court and everyone was involved. OG was playing like an all-star and KAT was involved more than the previous year.

Then pffffftt it just vanished like air out of a balloon. Brunson went back to ISO ball and here we are.

Either Brunson needs to reform himself or you need a stronger coach who will not bow to the whims of their stars and get total buy-in. Only then can you build around Brunson.

But if you keep getting wimpy coaches, and yes Thibs was a wimp too, some of you think he was some kind of tough guy which is nonsense. He was too lazy to run offensive sets. Having Brunson was like getting a lap dance from a young Derrick Rose which meant he could say "it's your ball, go make something happen" which is what lazy coaches do. Because young Rose and prime Brunson are exciting players who will win you a good share of games due to their fearless attack. But it is not a strategy. It is just singular talents doing their thing. That's not coaching. It's capitulation.

Get a coach with both a vision to move the ball and the spine to enforce that vision and maybe then you can contend with Brunson. Short of that, this team won't sniff a chip with Brunson. Get over your attachment to Brunson. I get it, you love him, but the way he plays now he is not a franchise player unless he has a sharp horse bit in his mouth and a coach with a whip to guide him. Brunson is not a Kobe or a Jordan. He clearly needs a higher authority to guide him.

I actually think the minimum that should happen this off-season is that Rick Brunson should go. That Nepotism needs to end. Then hire a real offensive coordinator.

Amen to that.

What's disgusting about it is every player on the team sees the featured attraction play ego-centric hoops with his Daddy watching from the sidelines.

Get a ticket and sit the stands like KAT's father does you slug.

Did Rick or Jalen ever for a second consider how privileged that makes him look in the other players' eyes? It must make them all feel like second class citizens.

The chemistry on this team is wayyyyyyy off. They're not clicking. And crap like this contributes to that.