nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:I actually really like the Popper or Bondy trade idea of Jerami Grant + Jrue Holiday for KAT.

Never really loved Sabonis, especially at C, but I do kind of like him here at PF. My gut tells me Brown isn't itching to reunite with his old Kings players though.

no way, those two guys are very close to being washed and play redundant positions.

Much better off with Sabonis and using Yabu to get a backup C. we were never winning anything without Mitch being healthy anyway.

If we can flip KAT for Sabonis, then great. I think it's highly unlikely though. What exactly would appetize the Kings to make that trade? We are most likely looking at a Trae Young deal here or something mildly better than that.

I think you keep KAT if thats the case. Sabonis wants out of SAC, they aren't getting much for him either as he makes 43m. Maybe we send them the WSH pick as well. I think that's fair value for both teams given their situations.

I mean SAC is the dumbest organization in the NBA so you can't put anything past them. But trading for another all offense player after all of the moves they have made to ruin their team lately would just make no sense at all. If they can't win with Sabonis in that spot why would they try Towns? They are more likely to tank from here if they had any brains.

fitzfarm wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:It’s sad that towns is getting the finger pointed at for our issues … last night he had 22 and 18

The two guys we should be looking at moving are OG and Mikel … I’d call Memphis and see if they would do a Ja and Jackson for Mikel and OG and picks . Mikel and OG are the two most inconsistent players in our starting 5 . Love OG but he needs to be more consistent on offense to be considered a star … and Mikel is just Mid .

We should have hung the banner, since then I’m guessing the nba commissioner made it a point to get the refs to look the other way . Brunson has barely gone to the ft line since the cup win. Kat isn’t the problem it’s our 3rd and forth options that have been the issue . I’d imagine Ja and Kat would rock the house with pick and rolls and Jackson gives us defense and consistency from behind the ark .

Sorry, IMO OG and Bridges are untouchable and only symptomatic of the issues with the Knicks.

These guys are both top notch pros that you go to war with. OG and Bridges will deliver.

We need a bigger guard who plays defense when it matters and we need some toughness when its important to send a message.

Bridges is having one of the worst statistical years of his career, he’s also extremely overrated on defense… sure he’s an iron man but he’s pretty mid at everything. OG is fantastic defensively but he’s very inconsistent on offense… that’s why neither one can be trusted on a
Night in night out basis .

Towns was having the best year of his career with thibs but now that brown is the coach ya’ll are screaming to trade him ? This is a carbon copy of what happened in Sacramento they came in hot running and gunning then when teams adjusted to their play brown was unable to change they were awful on defense and the players lost respect and stopped trying . It led to brown getting fired and they got peanuts for fox…

Brown will be fired before the season is over unless he gets the players to buy back in … something he’s failed to do at every spot he’s coached …. So don’t hold your breath.

Again the only player you move towns for is the Greek otherwise you’re not going to get equal value back… sabonis ??? Dude is a fringe all star that plays even worse defense than towns. Towns is a superstar who our coach has under utilized… and it’s not just towns the entire team has played like trash on defense… minus OG. Mikel is averaging 10pts a game and is a turnover machine when he becomes more of a focal point of the offense .

If you can get Ja and Jackson for OG and Mikel why on earth would you not make that trade Jackson is a former DPOY . And Ja would give us another ball handler and open up the floor for towns and Brunson.

Chances are that the Knicks will do something else but let's make a spirited argument of this theoretical trade scenario.

You obviously favor losing OG and Bridges. And you seem to think doubling down on - gasp- Towns because he puts up points is a good idea.

Brown ain't going anywhere this year and this team ain't getting younger nor more endearing to the fanbase AND the East is there for the taking. It's time to make the donuts.

Towns is not cutting it regardless of everybody else's stats. OG and Bridges are not the problem. They simply aren't. They have more defensive chops than anybody you'll get to replace either. You'd be blowing holes in the roster that you'd spend years fixing.

Sabonis is only a "border line All-Star"? Okay, that's all these other guys need - somebody with a clue - who they can trust. If not Sabonis then somebody/anybody along those lines. Sabonis has a decent contract - that's good news, no? To make salaries match Sacto dumps Schroder who works for us. And you're contending.

Maybe Brown needed more time with the Sacto unit - maybe Sabonis clicks right in. It's a risk.

Every other trade I see looks like a big learning curve that the Knicks have no time for this year.

But OK next year it will be different, right?

I worry that exchanging towns for Sabonis really doesn’t do anything for us. He might even be a worse defender than towns. But Schroeder would be awesome, Clarkson and Yabusele were big misses . Don’t forget that towns was huge for us in the playoffs last year . He really can’t be stopped when he’s focused …

To me bridges and OG are replaceable . I’m not saying they are bad but for someone like bridges who is averaging 10 points a game and is a turnover machine when we give him more focus on offense . We were up by double digits vs the suns and bridges was a big reason they came back .. he’s also extremely over rated on defense it seems like anyone can blow right by him. He’s also an extremely streaky shooter.

Bridges is more replaceable than towns . The fact that we don't focus the offense around towns more is devastating because he is a force that teams struggle to stop…. Do teams struggle to stop bridges ? That answer is simply no.

OG is a great defender and when he’s on offensively he is a borderline all star. But he is super inconsistent on offense. He also is injury prone and we can sell high on him now.

We will not get an upgrade on towns unless it’s for the Greek.

Memphis is in rebuilding mode Jackson is probably gone after this year … we already know Ja is on the trading block … why not call and see if we can get the two of them for bridges and OG players with good contracts with team control for years .

Ja will get everyone involved and Jackson is an all nba defender.

Towns, Jackson, hart, Ja, Brunson would be unreal then you can pair up Jackson and Mitch and who is going to score in the paint vs us no one .

Also the contracts match to make the trade with Memphis.

On brown if we keep loosing he won’t make it through the season. Especially when a guy like Mike Malone is a FA …

Clarkson came for vet min. I wouldn't consider him a big miss. Yabu was the big miss. We basically got iHart a few years back on the same kind of signing.

That franchise has not won a chip since 1951!!!!
They were in Rochester then. They moved to Cinncinatti, then Kansas City/Omaha, then just KC, then to SAC in 1985.

In 12 seasons (984 games), Kings owner Vivek has has won 414 games (42%), had 8 coaches, 3 GMs, and 1 playoff appearance.

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:I actually really like the Popper or Bondy trade idea of Jerami Grant + Jrue Holiday for KAT.

Never really loved Sabonis, especially at C, but I do kind of like him here at PF. My gut tells me Brown isn't itching to reunite with his old Kings players though.

no way, those two guys are very close to being washed and play redundant positions.

Much better off with Sabonis and using Yabu to get a backup C. we were never winning anything without Mitch being healthy anyway.

If we can flip KAT for Sabonis, then great. I think it's highly unlikely though. What exactly would appetize the Kings to make that trade? We are most likely looking at a Trae Young deal here or something mildly better than that.

I think you keep KAT if thats the case. Sabonis wants out of SAC, they aren't getting much for him either as he makes 43m. Maybe we send them the WSH pick as well. I think that's fair value for both teams given their situations.

I mean SAC is the dumbest organization in the NBA so you can't put anything past them. But trading for another all offense player after all of the moves they have made to ruin their team lately would just make no sense at all. If they can't win with Sabonis in that spot why would they try Towns? They are more likely to tank from here if they had any brains.

IDK that they can get much more for Sabonis than that WSH pick. and yes they seem to like their "star power".

I think if there was ever a shot that we couldve gotten Giannis for KAT + some and we didn't do it, that was a huge fail.

Leon's moves have not been panning out.

Always felt the OG trade was rushed and the beginning of an ERA that wasn't as fun anymore.

IDK, the Knicks record with OG is insanely good. I don't mind them going after 2 way wings. Honestly all the guys they have gone after make a ton of sense around Brunson. Where they seemed to have failed is trying to replicate the KP/Boston trade with Towns, nuking the defensive identity of this team and pairing the worst defensive 1-5 tandem in basketball. The stretch from Brunson in the playoffs 2 years ago he was putting up numbers only MJ has put up, and he did that with no spacing. The need for a stretch 5 was overblown, and it seems like the league reverted back to normal defense/rebounding 5s instantly after we made the trade. I understand iHart left, but we could have formed a new platoon with Mitch with some minor moves instead of the seismic Towns trade.

IMO we can get back to where we were a couple years ago, but Towns has got to go to do that.

FWIW, the odds of a Towns trade have surged today on Polymarket to over 50%.

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:

DLeethal wrote:I actually really like the Popper or Bondy trade idea of Jerami Grant + Jrue Holiday for KAT.

Never really loved Sabonis, especially at C, but I do kind of like him here at PF. My gut tells me Brown isn't itching to reunite with his old Kings players though.

no way, those two guys are very close to being washed and play redundant positions.

Much better off with Sabonis and using Yabu to get a backup C. we were never winning anything without Mitch being healthy anyway.

If we can flip KAT for Sabonis, then great. I think it's highly unlikely though. What exactly would appetize the Kings to make that trade? We are most likely looking at a Trae Young deal here or something mildly better than that.

I think you keep KAT if that's the case. Sabonis wants out of SAC, they aren't getting much for him either as he makes 43m. Maybe we send them the WSH pick as well. I think that's fair value for both teams given their situations.

I mean SAC is the dumbest organization in the NBA so you can't put anything past them. But trading for another all offense player after all of the moves they have made to ruin their team lately would just make no sense at all. If they can't win with Sabonis in that spot why would they try Towns? They are more likely to tank from here if they had any brains.

IDK that they can get much more for Sabonis than that WSH pick. and yes they seem to like their "star power".

I think if there was ever a shot that we could've gotten Giannis for KAT + some and we didn't do it, that was a huge fail.

Leon's moves have not been panning out.

Always felt the OG trade was rushed and the beginning of an ERA that wasn't as fun anymore.

With the Knicks in free fall, I see a lot of criticism of Leon Rose that, IMO, is misguided.

The moves the Knicks have made are simply coming back to earth after a very fortuitous run for the last 5 years or so. You win some, you lose some but expecting anyone to **** gold bars is irrational.

Likewise, the criticism of OG and Bridges strikes me as being over-the-top. They require a functional, predictable teamplay. The Brunson/Townes disconnect distorts their contributions.

A Yabu trade isn't going to move the needle. The team needs some hardening physically and in smarts. Players like that are available but the cost is holding your nose because they come with some **** in their baggage.

fwk00 wrote:
Towns is not cutting it regardless of everybody else's stats. OG and Bridges are not the problem. They simply aren't. They have more defensive chops than anybody you'll get to replace either. You'd be blowing holes in the roster that you'd spend years fixing.

Would you send out KAT in this scenario ......

NYK gets:
JJ & Ja

SA gets:
Mitch Rob

Griz get:
KAT, Olynyk, 2026 Washington pick from NY, 2030 NY pick, 2027 ATL pick from SA

I see it as a no brainer for SA. They get exactly what they need for a pick they don't need while cutting some salary. Maybe get them to throw in a favorable swap to the griz as well.

It gives the Griz three unprotected first rounders - two of which are potential lottery. Olynyk is on an expiring. If their goal is to rebuild, KAT's going to be an expiring right when they would look to bring in a star to run with the youth they bring in over the next two years. People are not banging down the door for JA - a first rounder is a win for them. Then two more first is good compensation for JJ on a down year.

Add in a swap with SA they like and as many second rounders as they want. I'm not sure who's beating that offer.

I'd be so happy.. There are issues but I'd be so happy

fwk00 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

fwk00 wrote:IMO, Towns & Yabu for Sabonis, Schroder, and a second rounder

then dadiet for mason Plumlee

Risky but its an all-in play

Do that trade in a nanosecond

Here's my logic.

We are buying low on Sabonis who could very well raise his level of contribution to the Knicks that iHart supplied,

Schroder is a guy who got burned and isn't having it. He's a beast but playing in NY and getting a ring would heal a ****-ton of past grievances.

For Sacto, Towns will look like a haul. Grab a second rounder or two from them (30s) and call it a deal.

Imagine OG, Bridges, Schroder on D. They'll eat the opponent alive.

Sabonis is excellent and he would have great chemistry with this roster.

Agreed. He's exactly what Brunson, Bridges, and OG have been missing. Towns' offence is great but we wouldn't miss it.

The passing, team play, and sheer complementary presence of Sabonis would be a huge plus.

AND, we aren't blowing out the team for a star-phuk.

The issue would be we'd be very short in starting unit - across the board - zero rim protection.

I think offense would buzz unless Jalen once again can't mesh smoothly with another #2. Sabonis is much sharper with the ball and isn't constantly doing dumb stuff but very limited physically from a lateral foot speed and vertical contest perspective. Plus perimeter shooting goes away - putting more pressure on up/down shooters (Josh/OG/Mikal).

I don't think Kat's dumb stuff is fixable so if there isn't a better trade option out there Sabonis is a definite thought - wish Kat would just play good ball but +10 years of same old stuff.

LivingLegend wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

fwk00 wrote:IMO, Towns & Yabu for Sabonis, Schroder, and a second rounder

then dadiet for mason Plumlee

Risky but its an all-in play

Do that trade in a nanosecond

Here's my logic.

We are buying low on Sabonis who could very well raise his level of contribution to the Knicks that iHart supplied,

Schroder is a guy who got burned and isn't having it. He's a beast but playing in NY and getting a ring would heal a ****-ton of past grievances.

For Sacto, Towns will look like a haul. Grab a second rounder or two from them (30s) and call it a deal.

Imagine OG, Bridges, Schroder on D. They'll eat the opponent alive.

Sabonis is excellent and he would have great chemistry with this roster.

Agreed. He's exactly what Brunson, Bridges, and OG have been missing. Towns' offence is great but we wouldn't miss it.

The passing, team play, and sheer complementary presence of Sabonis would be a huge plus.

AND, we aren't blowing out the team for a star-phuk.

The issue would be we'd be very short in starting unit - across the board - zero rim protection.

I think offense would buzz unless Jalen once again can't mesh smoothly with another #2. Sabonis is much sharper with the ball and isn't constantly doing dumb stuff but very limited physically from a lateral foot speed and vertical contest perspective. Plus perimeter shooting goes away - putting more pressure on up/down shooters (Josh/OG/Mikal).

I don't think Kat's dumb stuff is fixable so if there isn't a better trade option out there Sabonis is a definite thought - wish Kat would just play good ball but +10 years of same old stuff.

All good points, no doubt. But its a thin field out there in terms of what's available without a fire sale.

I think that between Sabonis/Mitch that we'd hold our own and I'm assuming we acquire an inexpensive enforcer vet along the way.

One of our weaknesses has been the secondary holding their own. The second unit has an ugly efficiency set of ratings. Schroder instantly improves that.

KAT is in his thirties. C'mon. If he hasn't figured it out yet let's stop spending time believing in miracles. He's a one-dimensional superstar who needs a team that isn't the Knicks.

Our problem is that the window of opportunity is NOW. Any talk about patience or "it will pass" is expensive opportunity cost.

This wouldn't be a natural talent upgrade at all. It's a gamble on a return to that electric chemistry the Knicks had with iHart who 'got' Brunson, Og, Bridges all in a vibe.
The NBA is difficult to watch these days and a hustle, chemistry team would reignite some interest. I have trouble following this particular assemblage.