Stars get traded for so much more these days. Even flawed ones like Marbury if they are young enough.

gradyandrew wrote:I think Isaiah has said when he made the trade, he was expecting him and Allan Houston would be the best backcourt in the league. Sadly Allan's knees just never healed properly.

Nor did Marbury's brain.

Nalod wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:always thought the Marbury trade was a bad one, but looking back , getting a 25 year old star PG for just 2 firsts was kind of a steal.

Stars get traded for so much more these days. Even flawed ones like Marbury if they are young enough.

But Marbury was a flawed star having issues everywhere. In Minny he let his ego get the best of him. In Jersey, "all alone".....and PHX they were so happy to rid themselves of him. Your not wrong about the price and pehraps the potential with Allan. Isiah thought he could mentor the kid given his leadership chops from his playing days.
Marbury really never gave off the leadership vibe.

Now that we are 20+ years away from the trade and way better understanding. I can say that roster construction was the biggest hurdle. Marbury was one of the best PNR and penetrating PGs in the league. He was a solid shooter, but that wasn't his real strength. Isiah basically did minimal to put Marbury in a position of strength on the court. Isiah knew how to aquire talent. But Isiah didn't know how to properly construct a team that fit together.

A dynamic that may have changed the Knicks fortune would have been if Rasheed Wallace got his way and made his way to the Knicks. As he was willing to sign for the mid level at the time and told teams not to trade for him as he wouldn't resign with them. Detroit made a play anyway and won the chip and the rest is history. Rasheed was a perfect personality and player to fit Marbury's game and fill the Knicks needs as Marbury's go to front court option and enforcer.

As well as what was stated before, Alan Houston's health.

The trade you mentioned:February 19, 2004:

As part of a 3-team trade, traded by the Atlanta Hawks to the Detroit Pistons; the Boston Celtics traded Chris Mills to the Atlanta Hawks; the Boston Celtics traded Mike James to the Detroit Pistons; the Detroit Pistons traded Željko Rebrača, Bob Sura and a 2004 1st round draft pick (Josh Smith was later selected) to the Atlanta Hawks; and the Detroit Pistons traded Chucky Atkins, Lindsey Hunter and a 2004 1st round draft pick (Tony Allen was later selected) to the Boston Celtics.

He did in fact resign with Detroit.

Knicks roster in 2004 after marbury trade:
Glossary
No. Player Pos Ht Wt Birth Date Birth Exp College
49 Shandon Anderson SG 6-6 208 December 31, 1973 us US 7 Georgia
42 Vin Baker PF 6-11 232 November 23, 1971 us US 10 University of Hartford
51 Michael Doleac C 6-11 262 June 15, 1977 us US 5 Utah
1 Anfernee Hardaway SG 6-7 195 July 18, 1971 us US 10 Memphis
32 Othella Harrington PF 6-9 235 January 31, 1974 us US 7 Georgetown
20 Allan Houston SG 6-6 200 April 20, 1971 us US 10 Tennessee
4 DerMarr Johnson SF 6-9 201 May 5, 1980 us US 2 Cincinnati
3 Stephon Marbury PG 6-2 180 February 20, 1977 us US 7 Georgia Tech
13 Nazr Mohammed C 6-10 221 September 5, 1977 us US 5 Kentucky
55 Dikembe Mutombo C 7-2 245 June 25, 1966 cd CD 12 Georgetown
25 Moochie Norris PG 6-1 175 July 27, 1973 us US 6 Auburn, University of West Florida
41 Bruno Šundov C 7-2 220 February 10, 1980 hr HR 5
50 Mike Sweetney PF 6-8 275 October 25, 1982 us US R Georgetown
40 Kurt Thomas PF 6-9 230 October 4, 1972 us US 8 TCU
5 Tim Thomas SF 6-10 230 February 26, 1977 us US 6 Villanova
35 Clarence Weatherspoon PF 6-7 240 September 8, 1970 us US 11 Southern Miss
30 Frank Williams PG 6-3 212 February 25, 1980 us US 1 Illinois

Recall, Isiah is just landing in NY in the fall of 2003 and had done the Marbury deal on January 5th. I cannot speak to what trade we could have done or the cap situation as it was very different then. Lenny Wilkens was also just installed as coach.

newyorknewyork wrote:As stated earlier word was Rasheed was looking to sign as a mid level FA in the offseason believing Knicks were on the rise. Probably a short term deal, see if Isiah could build a contender right quick.

Vince Carter was also looking to get traded to NY from Toronto. But Isiah didn't want to give up Crawford and 2 first round picks. Said Toronto could either have Crawford and a 1st, or 2 1st and other cap filler, but not both.

But he got traded mid season from ATL and still could have found his way here. he signed for 5 years for 58mm in 2004 for what I gather was more than the mid level. He used his leverage well. He thrived under Larry brown winning a chip year one and contined resurgence with two allstar nods playing for Flip Saunders in Detoit. They were formiable a few more year winning 64, 53, 59, games but ran into Miami with Shaq and wade, Then Clev with Lebron, and then Boston to get to finals.

No doubt the buzz at the time with Isiah and an owner willing to spend was a nice change from the failed starphuch that was Dyce. Of course we soured on Layden as the next "Wunderkind" GM so after Magic refused Dolan to be our President, he turned to Isiah who leveraged it up. Like Mcdyess, he had good ideas but failed miserably to execute and the Eddy Curry trade who ate two first round picks that proved valuable given how bad we actually were created another long drought of despair. I guess Vince would have been teh better value11!

We do know in hindisght vince was loafing it and proved to be excellent, but how he'd fit with Marbles is another story.

By the time Zach Randolph got here it was just too late. Crazy that he was only 26 when we got him. Steve Francis was just 28, just two years removed from being an allstar.

Yes, RashWeed Wallace could have been a great pick up for us!!!

Nalod wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:As stated earlier word was Rasheed was looking to sign as a mid level FA in the offseason believing Knicks were on the rise. Probably a short term deal, see if Isiah could build a contender right quick.

Vince Carter was also looking to get traded to NY from Toronto. But Isiah didn't want to give up Crawford and 2 first round picks. Said Toronto could either have Crawford and a 1st, or 2 1st and other cap filler, but not both.

But he got traded mid season from ATL and still could have found his way here. he signed for 5 years for 58mm in 2004 for what I gather was more than the mid level. He used his leverage well. He thrived under Larry brown winning a chip year one and contined resurgence with two allstar nods playing for Flip Saunders in Detoit. They were formiable a few more year winning 64, 53, 59, games but ran into Miami with Shaq and wade, Then Clev with Lebron, and then Boston to get to finals.

No doubt the buzz at the time with Isiah and an owner willing to spend was a nice change from the failed starphuch that was Dyce. Of course we soured on Layden as the next "Wunderkind" GM so after Magic refused Dolan to be our President, he turned to Isiah who leveraged it up. Like Mcdyess, he had good ideas but failed miserably to execute and the Eddy Curry trade who ate two first round picks that proved valuable given how bad we actually were created another long drought of despair. I guess Vince would have been teh better value11!

We do know in hindisght vince was loafing it and proved to be excellent, but how he'd fit with Marbles is another story.

By the time Zach Randolph got here it was just too late. Crazy that he was only 26 when we got him. Steve Francis was just 28, just two years removed from being an allstar.

Yes, RashWeed Wallace could have been a great pick up for us!!!

Its not that complicated.
He was interested in joining the Knicks as he thought they were on a path to being a contender. As on paper they had Marbury, Houston, KVH*turn*Tim Thomas/Muhammad, Penny Hardaway, Kurt Thomas, Mutumobo.
He ended up actually joining a contender and winning a chip who maintained his rights and could pay him within his bird rights. Had the deal fall through with Detroit and he stayed in ATL for the remainder of the season. Who knows very possible he ends up with the Knicks.

Nalod wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:As stated earlier word was Rasheed was looking to sign as a mid level FA in the offseason believing Knicks were on the rise. Probably a short term deal, see if Isiah could build a contender right quick.

Vince Carter was also looking to get traded to NY from Toronto. But Isiah didn't want to give up Crawford and 2 first round picks. Said Toronto could either have Crawford and a 1st, or 2 1st and other cap filler, but not both.

But he got traded mid season from ATL and still could have found his way here. he signed for 5 years for 58mm in 2004 for what I gather was more than the mid level. He used his leverage well. He thrived under Larry brown winning a chip year one and contined resurgence with two allstar nods playing for Flip Saunders in Detoit. They were formiable a few more year winning 64, 53, 59, games but ran into Miami with Shaq and wade, Then Clev with Lebron, and then Boston to get to finals.

No doubt the buzz at the time with Isiah and an owner willing to spend was a nice change from the failed starphuch that was Dyce. Of course we soured on Layden as the next "Wunderkind" GM so after Magic refused Dolan to be our President, he turned to Isiah who leveraged it up. Like Mcdyess, he had good ideas but failed miserably to execute and the Eddy Curry trade who ate two first round picks that proved valuable given how bad we actually were created another long drought of despair. I guess Vince would have been teh better value11!

We do know in hindisght vince was loafing it and proved to be excellent, but how he'd fit with Marbles is another story.

By the time Zach Randolph got here it was just too late. Crazy that he was only 26 when we got him. Steve Francis was just 28, just two years removed from being an allstar.

Yes, RashWeed Wallace could have been a great pick up for us!!!

Dolan was on the Roomates Podcast and said they had a deal in place for Carter and the medical team said something was wrong with his Achilles or something so it killed the trade. He was eventually traded to the Nets and as Dolan put it, the was just waiting for the injury that never happened.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2a7USJu-NNQ

VDesai wrote:Trading for Marbs just didn't make a lot of sense from the perspective of we gave all our assets for him, and adding him didn't really make us a good team, even though he was a better individual player than any we had. With a healthy Houston we maybe were better than a fringe playoff contender, but definitely not a real contender.

Probably worse was moving Van Horn for Thomas and Mohammed- Marbury hated KVH, but he was playing well with KVH and KVH was having a good year. Thomas was a much softer, more inconsistent version of KVH and Nazr was a guy who couldn't defend, but collected rebounds and close baskets at a fair rate because he was large. That said Marbs was a perfect pick and pop partner with Doleac and KVH who could knock down jumpers...but he didn't really like playing with the Utes.