Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:<snip>
Does Mitch really need to develop an outside shot? Joakim Noah and Marcus Camby never did and those are the 2 players he’s most similar to

He more Capella and Deandre Jordan.
Joakim and Camby had nice midrange game. Joakim's got ugly as a knick.
Joakims % as a knick is about as accurate as your posts.

Mitch has a few paths to becoming a $20m+/yr player:
* develop a serviceable post up game
* develop a hook shot
* develop a floater
* develop a short jumper 5-10ft is sufficient
* develop a 3pt shot
* work in a passing game from the high post
* develop a rudimentary slashing game

He's flashed all of these in work out videos - well, all of them except for any sense of passing! In workout vids he NEVER passes for assists. He'd be a dramatically more dangerous player if he incorporated any one of those. To date, his offensive game consists of almost exclusively dunks and putbacks.

He really needs to get a few reps in real game situations. (and no, doing moves on 6'5" guys in a high school gym over the summer doesn't count)

technomaster wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:<snip>
Does Mitch really need to develop an outside shot? Joakim Noah and Marcus Camby never did and those are the 2 players he’s most similar to

He more Capella and Deandre Jordan.
Joakim and Camby had nice midrange game. Joakim's got ugly as a knick.
Joakims % as a knick is about as accurate as your posts.

Mitch has a few paths to becoming a $20m+/yr player:
* develop a serviceable post up game
* develop a hook shot
* develop a floater
* develop a short jumper 5-10ft is sufficient
* develop a 3pt shot
* work in a passing game from the high post
* develop a rudimentary slashing game

He's flashed all of these in work out videos - well, all of them except for any sense of passing! In workout vids he NEVER passes for assists. He'd be a dramatically more dangerous player if he incorporated any one of those. To date, his offensive game consists of almost exclusively dunks and putbacks.

He really needs to get a few reps in real game situations. (and no, doing moves on 6'5" guys in a high school gym over the summer doesn't count)

Inflation works also.

I think his value is understated but was priced right on this contract. He has a path forward to max contract which looks like Rudy Gobert. Mitch is 24 and Rudy is 30.

This offense style suits Robinson BUT he has an interesting player in Hart behind him. I think you have a NY starting center for the next 8-10 years and he will continue to improve.

His next contract in NY is $30mm per unless he gets traded for a KAT.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/JCMacriNBA/status/1585999791753928704

I think we let him go window shopping and match any offer he gets . Then work on trades to get us under the apron . In a year.

Again all click bait don’t believe anything till it’s final

I still have hope this front office knows what they are doing . They definitely are the only source with real insider knowledge.. not any of these click bait clowns.

ramtour420 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:I'm not emotionally prepared enough to talk about the possibility of life after Mitch, so I am desperate that the Knicks front office should pull their heads out of their asses and get Mitch signed. I don't need them to make run at Lebron or anything else. Pay the man his money. I remembered this thread, because it demonstrated the work Mitch put in to get his game to be the most elite offensive rebounder in the league. Fuck free throws. You have a man willing to work. Willing to do the dirty jobs. Puts in the extra time to be the player the organization asks him to be and you are going to artificially cap yourself at the second apron to make some sort of moral argument about cap dynamics? Every dollar up to the 2nd apron is getting charged the same multiplier. And in a couple years, with the expansion draft, there will be a hefty check to the owners. Pay the man his money.

If Mitch signs a team friendly contract to stay on the best team in the league, sure. He wants to get payed? For what, man? For not adding anything to his game over his years here?You do understand that he is still a dunker on offense, right? You do understand that as soon as the opponent goes into a " Hack-a-Mitch" we are desperately looking to take an unnecessary foul to get him out of the game. That's who we need to keep in order to repeat? His health record is atrocious, his playing time depends on whether or not the opposing team wants to foul him. He needs to take a MAJOR paycut or pack his bags. For real. We aren't talking prime Shaq over here. We are talking a specialist, a one way player.There is no more time for this man to get his **** together. If he was a legit backup I would have a different opinion. Do you remember us being fking forced to play Hukporti( who held his ground ,btw)in the Finals?

And those limitations are all reasons why Mitch was making $13M and not a deal like Jarrett Allen's. Despite his warts, he continues to make a huge impact, that opposing teams recognize and fear. Defense. Blocks. Extra possessions. We've watched Boston start the Hack-a-Mitch before they're even in the ****ing penalty because he scares them. The free throws are a major Achilles heel, but the team has strategized around it.

If we don't pay Mitch, it's because someone else is going to. It's not Mitch vs. anyone else at the same price, it's pay Mitch or be stuck vet min or MAYBE MLE level guys, which is a very depleted market right now. Ask the Lakers.

Pay the man. Dip your toe into the 2nd if you need to in order to DEFEND THE FUCKING TITLE! There's no better reason to go into the 2nd apron. Throw in a pair of truck nuts for him.

Yeah, his health has been a concern. And the team has been cautious with him. You have 13mm to spend unless you use exceptions to exceed the apron using exceptions. Even if you disagree with him for whatever reason. He is the best offensive rebounding big in the league. His plus minus is off the charts. And you cannot replace him with the money you have left. Who is taking 6.1mm MLE that hard caps you anyway? Ayton turned down 8mm to pursue a 20mm per contract. Time lord? Maybe. All the exact same issues with a worse health history.

Think on multiple levels - not just FT%. You cannot replace his production.

We read of his "Mental health issues" a few weeks ago? right?
Then shortly after he pulls up with a broken "pinkie". It was reported "not basketball related". Further it was said he had something called a bone break related to hitting something with a fist.

For all its worth, we got a chip and he was a big part of it. But lets give FO credit that sometimes its time to let a player walk and thank him for his years and. hope he had a meaningful experience!

technomaster wrote:Mitch has a few paths to becoming a $20m+/yr player:
* develop a serviceable post up game
* develop a hook shot
* develop a floater
* develop a short jumper 5-10ft is sufficient
* develop a 3pt shot
* work in a passing game from the high post
* develop a rudimentary slashing game

He's flashed all of these in work out videos - well, all of them except for any sense of passing! In workout vids he NEVER passes for assists. He'd be a dramatically more dangerous player if he incorporated any one of those. To date, his offensive game consists of almost exclusively dunks and putbacks.

He really needs to get a few reps in real game situations. (and no, doing moves on 6'5" guys in a high school gym over the summer doesn't count)

Hello past me. It's been 4 years. Mitch has not developed in any of these ways, at least not in-game.
But he now sets really good screens and become a really dominant offensive rebounder, perhaps the best in the game. He kicks the ball out effectively after offensive boards, often leading to hockey assists as the perimeter players like to play hot potato with the ball. He doesn't block shots the way he used to (whether that's by design to save his body or if he's really lost some quickness, who knows), but still finishes like a beast.

But he now forms perhaps the best center tandem in the league with KAT and winning an NBA title while thwarting the league's new up-and-coming big man Wemby in the process.

Yes, there's inflation in salaries, but not all around. While beefy centers have become more rare, it feels like every wing who can shoot is getting $20-30m/year. Even Christian Braun (5yr/$125m).

Looking at some recent comps:
Last year Myles Turner netted a 4yr/$109m deal perhaps in large thanks to his 3pt shooting, then proceeded to have an invisible season ending with Giannis getting traded and the team in shambles at the moment. That move is widely seen as a huge mistake. Zubac signed for 3yr/$59m. Mark Williams just got signed for 3/39. Plays somewhat similar mins to Mitch. Not as elite on D, but contributes on the other end. The Knicks already have the chemistry built for a squad playing around Mitch. We have the blueprint.

ramtour420 wrote:

MaTT4281 wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:I'm not emotionally prepared enough to talk about the possibility of life after Mitch, so I am desperate that the Knicks front office should pull their heads out of their asses and get Mitch signed. I don't need them to make run at Lebron or anything else. Pay the man his money. I remembered this thread, because it demonstrated the work Mitch put in to get his game to be the most elite offensive rebounder in the league. Fuck free throws. You have a man willing to work. Willing to do the dirty jobs. Puts in the extra time to be the player the organization asks him to be and you are going to artificially cap yourself at the second apron to make some sort of moral argument about cap dynamics? Every dollar up to the 2nd apron is getting charged the same multiplier. And in a couple years, with the expansion draft, there will be a hefty check to the owners. Pay the man his money.

If Mitch signs a team friendly contract to stay on the best team in the league, sure. He wants to get payed? For what, man? For not adding anything to his game over his years here?You do understand that he is still a dunker on offense, right? You do understand that as soon as the opponent goes into a " Hack-a-Mitch" we are desperately looking to take an unnecessary foul to get him out of the game. That's who we need to keep in order to repeat? His health record is atrocious, his playing time depends on whether or not the opposing team wants to foul him. He needs to take a MAJOR paycut or pack his bags. For real. We aren't talking prime Shaq over here. We are talking a specialist, a one way player.There is no more time for this man to get his **** together. If he was a legit backup I would have a different opinion. Do you remember us being fking forced to play Hukporti( who held his ground ,btw)in the Finals?

And those limitations are all reasons why Mitch was making $13M and not a deal like Jarrett Allen's. Despite his warts, he continues to make a huge impact, that opposing teams recognize and fear. Defense. Blocks. Extra possessions. We've watched Boston start the Hack-a-Mitch before they're even in the ****ing penalty because he scares them. The free throws are a major Achilles heel, but the team has strategized around it.

If we don't pay Mitch, it's because someone else is going to. It's not Mitch vs. anyone else at the same price, it's pay Mitch or be stuck vet min or MAYBE MLE level guys, which is a very depleted market right now. Ask the Lakers.

Pay the man. Dip your toe into the 2nd if you need to in order to DEFEND THE FUCKING TITLE! There's no better reason to go into the 2nd apron. Throw in a pair of truck nuts for him.

You are right on everything except one thing. Teams aren't "Hack-a-Mitch" because they are scared if him . While yes, they are scared there is no logic to that statement. It's not related. Picture this, let's say there is a player on the floor who shoots FT at a 30% clip. This player could be terrible ( we are talking hypotheticals here) and he would still be sent to the free throw line. In other words, it doesn't matter how good or bad a player is. If he is the worst ever at shooting free throws he is getting hacked. It's not because they are scared, that's backwards logic and it's something Mitch himself has mentioned on social media. Instead of improving on his free throws.

I'll disagree, although can't lump every team and every coach's strategy into the same analytical bucket. There's a reason we don't see it often* when we're winning - because it's a desperation move. Racking up fouls early is a risky play.

Asterisk for the couple brave souls who wish to tempt the basketball gods. Thank you for our karmic comebacks.

The good outweighs the bad (despite how bad the FT is), and teams won't resort to it if they'd rather Mitch stay on the court.

ramtour420 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:I'm not emotionally prepared enough to talk about the possibility of life after Mitch, so I am desperate that the Knicks front office should pull their heads out of their asses and get Mitch signed. I don't need them to make run at Lebron or anything else. Pay the man his money. I remembered this thread, because it demonstrated the work Mitch put in to get his game to be the most elite offensive rebounder in the league. Fuck free throws. You have a man willing to work. Willing to do the dirty jobs. Puts in the extra time to be the player the organization asks him to be and you are going to artificially cap yourself at the second apron to make some sort of moral argument about cap dynamics? Every dollar up to the 2nd apron is getting charged the same multiplier. And in a couple years, with the expansion draft, there will be a hefty check to the owners. Pay the man his money.

If Mitch signs a team friendly contract to stay on the best team in the league, sure. He wants to get payed? For what, man? For not adding anything to his game over his years here?You do understand that he is still a dunker on offense, right? You do understand that as soon as the opponent goes into a " Hack-a-Mitch" we are desperately looking to take an unnecessary foul to get him out of the game. That's who we need to keep in order to repeat? His health record is atrocious, his playing time depends on whether or not the opposing team wants to foul him. He needs to take a MAJOR paycut or pack his bags. For real. We aren't talking prime Shaq over here. We are talking a specialist, a one way player.There is no more time for this man to get his **** together. If he was a legit backup I would have a different opinion. Do you remember us being fking forced to play Hukporti( who held his ground ,btw)in the Finals?

He does have the 2nd best player efficiency on the team, and is the best offensive rebounder in the league. No matter what, losing Robinson will be a step back.

Chandler wrote:

jaydh wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:I'm not emotionally prepared enough to talk about the possibility of life after Mitch, so I am desperate that the Knicks front office should pull their heads out of their asses and get Mitch signed. I don't need them to make run at Lebron or anything else. Pay the man his money. I remembered this thread, because it demonstrated the work Mitch put in to get his game to be the most elite offensive rebounder in the league. Fuck free throws. You have a man willing to work. Willing to do the dirty jobs. Puts in the extra time to be the player the organization asks him to be and you are going to artificially cap yourself at the second apron to make some sort of moral argument about cap dynamics? Every dollar up to the 2nd apron is getting charged the same multiplier. And in a couple years, with the expansion draft, there will be a hefty check to the owners. Pay the man his money.

If Mitch signs a team friendly contract to stay on the best team in the league, sure. He wants to get payed? For what, man? For not adding anything to his game over his years here?You do understand that he is still a dunker on offense, right? You do understand that as soon as the opponent goes into a " Hack-a-Mitch" we are desperately looking to take an unnecessary foul to get him out of the game. That's who we need to keep in order to repeat? His health record is atrocious, his playing time depends on whether or not the opposing team wants to foul him. He needs to take a MAJOR paycut or pack his bags. For real. We aren't talking prime Shaq over here. We are talking a specialist, a one way player.There is no more time for this man to get his **** together. If he was a legit backup I would have a different opinion. Do you remember us being fking forced to play Hukporti( who held his ground ,btw)in the Finals?

He does have the 2nd best player efficiency on the team, and is the best offensive rebounder in the league. No matter what, losing Robinson will be a step back.

Exactly. And keep in mind the effect of Mitch’s rebounding. It allows our smurfs like Deuce Kolek and Jose to be on the floor more as they contribute near zero to that effort. Mitch is a one man gang often on the boards

Our smurfs lol