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Rubio's future eligibility?
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nyvector16
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2/1/2010  12:03 PM
From what I could find on draft rules and player rights It would seem that Minnesota has 1 years to negotiate before he reenters the draft.
If undrafted the second time he becomes a free agent?
I am posting the Draft rules below with a link.
If all he has to do is wait it out for 2 years in Spain then Kahn is not really in a good bargaining position here. Thoughts?
I put in bold the section that I think applies here


http://www.nbpa.com/cba_articles/article-X.php

Section 4. Negotiating Rights to Draft Rookies.
(a) A Team that drafts a player shall, during the period from the date of such NBA Draft (hereinafter, the “Initial Draft”) to the date of the next Draft (hereinafter, the “Subsequent Draft”), be the only Team with which such player may negotiate or sign a Player Contract, provided that, on or before the July 15 immediately following the Initial Draft (for a First Round Pick), or in the two (2) weeks before the September 5 immediately following the Initial Draft (for a Second Round Pick), such Team has made a Required Tender to such player. If a Team has made a Required Tender to such a player and the player has not signed a Player Contract within the period between the Initial Draft and the Subsequent Draft, the Team that drafted the player shall lose its exclusive right to negotiate with the player and the player will then be eligible for selection in the Subsequent Draft.

(b) A Team that, in the Subsequent Draft, drafts a player who (i) was drafted in the Initial Draft, (ii) received a Required Tender from the Team that drafted him in the Initial Draft, and (iii) did not sign a Player Contract with such first Team prior to the Subsequent Draft, shall, during the period from the date of the Subsequent Draft to the date of the next NBA Draft, be the only Team with which such player may negotiate or sign a Player Contract, provided such Team has made a Required Tender to such player by the dates specified in Section 4(a) above. If such player has not signed a Player Contract within the period between the Subsequent Draft and the next NBA Draft with the Team that drafted him in the Subsequent Draft, that Team shall lose its exclusive right, which it obtained in the Subsequent Draft, to negotiate with the player, and the player will become a Rookie Free Agent as of the date of the next NBA Draft.

(c) If a player is drafted in an Initial Draft and (i) receives a Required Tender, (ii) does not sign a Player Contract with a Team prior to the Subsequent Draft, and (iii) is not drafted by any Team in such Subsequent Draft, the player will become a Rookie Free Agent immediately upon the conclusion of the Subsequent Draft.

(d) If a player is drafted by a Team in either an Initial or Subsequent Draft and that Team does not make a Required Tender to such player, the player will become a Rookie Free Agent on the July 16 following such Draft (for a First Round Pick) or on the September 6 following such Draft (for a Second Round Pick).

(e) A Team may at any time withdraw a Required Tender it has made to a player, provided that the player agrees in writing to the withdrawal. In the event that a Required Tender is withdrawn, the player shall thereupon become a Rookie Free Agent.

(f) A Team that holds the exclusive rights to negotiate with and sign a drafted player may at any time renounce such exclusive rights, except that, if the Team has made a Required Tender to the player, a renunciation shall not be permitted during the time the player has to accept the Required Tender under Article VIII. In order to renounce its exclusive rights with respect to a drafted player, a Team shall provide the NBA with an express, written statement renouncing such exclusive rights. The NBA shall provide a copy of such statement to the Players Association within three (3) business days following its receipt thereof.

AUTOADVERT
Nalod
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2/1/2010  12:19 PM
Interesting. I expect that Orlando still has Fran Vasquez's rights even after two years. I would imagine he would have to register to be drafted (again) which would be in bad form.

Rubio can I guess infatically state that he won't sign with anyone but "KNicks" (or any other team he wants) but another team can draft his rights and start the whole thing again most likley looking at his rights as trade fodder. Can't imagine a team not tendering him an offer if they draft him.

fishmike
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2/1/2010  12:31 PM
Min owns his rights. Only way he becomes a FA is if Minn doesnt offer him his rookie deal, which they obviously would.

Sabonis was drafted in like 86. Nine years later Port still had his rights when he came to the NBA

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
franco12
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2/1/2010  12:34 PM
I looked at this the other day- and the way I understood it, he would have to sit out a year after his current contract ends, and at that point, he would be eligible again for the draft.
nyvector16
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2/1/2010  12:49 PM
There is almost no clarity on this question of retaining draft rights.
You guys are right... Other teams have kept rights well beyond 3 years in the past.
I am not sure if those circumstances were before the current CBA...
The reason I posted this thread was to try and get to the heart of this.
Pharzeone
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2/1/2010  12:58 PM
There is absolute clarity. Fish is right, Minny can own his rights to his death if he never accepts a rookie contract from them. This has never changed. As I mentioned before Vujanic's draft rights is still floating around the NBA. Last known location for me was with the Suns in the Marbury trade but I think it moved on since then. Just look at Sosa's draft rights. Once drafted you cannot reenter the draft unless the team that drafted you does not reach an agreement for a rookie contract since rookie contracts are automatic salaries there is no longer any negotiations issues like Jimmy Jackson to worry about. Jimmy and his agent thought they could circumvent the CBA as well but could not. He was forced to accept the Mavericks contract or not play in the NBA.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
EwingsGlass
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2/1/2010  1:08 PM
franco12 wrote:I looked at this the other day- and the way I understood it, he would have to sit out a year after his current contract ends, and at that point, he would be eligible again for the draft.

This is the correct one. As long as the drafted player is playing professional ball, the NBA's draft rights to the player tolls. If he sits out an entire year, the NBA team loses its rights to him and he may re-enter the draft. The drafted player can only do that once though, the second time he is drafted, the second team has his rights for good.

You know I gonna spin wit it
EwingsGlass
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2/1/2010  1:17 PM
Section 5. Effect of Contracts with Other Professional Teams.
If a player is drafted by a Team in either an Initial or Subsequent Draft and, during a period in which he may negotiate and sign a Player Contract with only the Team that drafted him, and either (x) is a party to a previously existing player contract with a professional basketball team not in the NBA that covers all or any part of the NBA Season immediately following said Initial or Subsequent Draft, or (y) signs such a player contract, then the following rules will apply:

(a) Subject to Section 5(b) below, the Team that drafts the player shall retain the exclusive NBA rights to negotiate with and sign him for the period ending one (1) year from the earlier of the following two dates: (i) the date the player notifies such Team that he is available to sign a Player Contract with such Team immediately, provided that such notice will not be effective until the player is under no contractual or other legal impediment to sign and play with such Team for the then-current Season (if applicable) and any future Season; or (ii) the date of the NBA Draft occurring in the twelve-month period from September 1 to August 30 in which the player notifies such Team of his availability and intention to play in the NBA during the Season immediately following said twelve-month period, provided that such notice will not be effective until the player is under no contractual or other legal impediment to sign and play with such Team for the then-current Season (if applicable) and any future Season.

(b) If, by July 1 of any year, the player notifies the Team that has drafted him that by September 1 of such year he will, immediately thereafter and for any future Season, be under no contractual or other legal impediment to sign and play with such Team, and provided that on such September 1 the player is in fact under no such contractual or other legal impediment, then, in order to retain the exclusive NBA rights to negotiate with and sign the player as provided in Section 5(a), such Team must make a Required Tender to the player by September 10 of such year.

(c) If the player gives the required notice by July 1 of any year, and the Team that drafted him fails to make a Required Tender by September 10 of such year, the player shall thereupon become a Rookie Free Agent.

(d) If, during the one-year period of exclusive NBA negotiating rights set forth in Section 5(a) above, the player signs a player contract with a professional basketball team not in the NBA and the player has not made a bona fide effort to negotiate a Player Contract with the Team possessing his exclusive NBA rights or such bona fide effort is made and such Team makes a Required Tender to such player in accordance with Section 5(b) above, then such Team shall retain the exclusive NBA rights to negotiate with and sign the player for additional one-year periods as measured in and in accordance with the provisions of Section 5(a) above.

(e) If, during the one-year period of exclusive NBA negotiating rights set forth in subsection (a) above, (i) the player signs a player contract with a professional basketball team not in the NBA, (ii) the player has made a bona fide effort to negotiate a Player Contract with the Team possessing his exclusive NBA rights, and (iii) such Team fails to make a Required Tender to such player in accordance with Section 5(b) above, then the player shall thereupon become a Rookie Free Agent.

(f) If, during the one-year period of exclusive NBA negotiating rights set forth in Section 5(a) above, the Team makes or has made a Required Tender to the player and the player does not sign a player contract with any professional basketball team, then (i) in the case of a player who was previously drafted in an Initial Draft, the next NBA Draft following such one-year period shall be deemed the Subsequent Draft as to such player, and the rules applicable to a player who is subject to a Subsequent Draft will apply, or (ii) in the case of a player who was previously drafted in a Subsequent Draft, such player shall become a Rookie Free Agent at the end of such one-year period.

(g) Notice under this Section 5 shall be provided in writing by personal delivery or pre-paid certified, registered, or overnight mail sent to the Team’s principal address or principal office (as then listed in the NBA’s records), to the attention of the Team’s general manager.

You know I gonna spin wit it
nyvector16
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2/1/2010  1:20 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/1/2010  1:21 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
franco12 wrote:I looked at this the other day- and the way I understood it, he would have to sit out a year after his current contract ends, and at that point, he would be eligible again for the draft.

This is the correct one. As long as the drafted player is playing professional ball, the NBA's draft rights to the player tolls. If he sits out an entire year, the NBA team loses its rights to him and he may re-enter the draft. The drafted player can only do that once though, the second time he is drafted, the second team has his rights for good.

Apparently Franco is correct from what I could find. They own his rights as long as he plays professional basketball somewhere.
It would have been just too sweet to have this blow up in Kahn's face. oh well....

http://www.oregonlive.com/nba/index.ssf/2009/09/nba_notebook_timberwolves_draf.html

Nalod
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2/1/2010  1:22 PM
franco12 wrote:I looked at this the other day- and the way I understood it, he would have to sit out a year after his current contract ends, and at that point, he would be eligible again for the draft.

I recall Rubio's camp said he would do this if he ws still at his old team. That got him "Traded" to Barcelona. The thinking was he is still so young.

Yeah, Minny got him until traded or he sits out from a sanctioned league.

Pharzeone
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2/1/2010  1:46 PM
Nalod wrote:
franco12 wrote:I looked at this the other day- and the way I understood it, he would have to sit out a year after his current contract ends, and at that point, he would be eligible again for the draft.

I recall Rubio's camp said he would do this if he ws still at his old team. That got him "Traded" to Barcelona. The thinking was he is still so young.

Yeah, Minny got him until traded or he sits out from a sanctioned league.

This is where Jimmy Jackson and his agent got fouled out.
Section 3. Loss of Draft Rights.
If for any reason a Team fails to make a Required Tender to a First Round Pick in accordance with Article X, withdraws a Required Tender to a First Round Pick in accordance with Article X, or renounces a First Round Pick in accordance with Article X, or if a First Round Pick selected in a Subsequent Draft does not sign a Contract for a period of one (1) year following such Subsequent Draft in accordance with Article X, then the rules set forth in Sections 1 and 2 above shall not apply, and such First Round Pick shall become a Rookie Free Agent. In addition, any Team that fails to make a Required Tender to a First Round Pick, withdraws a Required Tender to a First Round Pick, renounces a First Round Pick, or fails to sign within one (1) year a First Round Pick selected in a Subsequent Draft shall be prohibited from signing such player until after he has signed a Player Contract with another NBA Team, and either (a) the player completes the playing services called for under the Contract, or (b) the Contract is terminated in accordance with the NBA waiver procedure.

Minny cannot lose his draft rights unless they take action. He is a first round pick and there is no negotiations for 1st round picks. The rule being talked about applies if Minny refuses to offer him a contract before their deadline which they already offer. Rubio refused to sign the agreement/he could not get out of his contract. Minny cover their bases and cannot lose his draft rights since 1st round picks cannot be negotiated and are automatic unlike 2nd round picks. The NBA made it even harder for 1st round picks to escape from undesirable locations.

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
nyvector16
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2/1/2010  2:14 PM
Pharzeone wrote:The NBA made it even harder for 1st round picks to escape from undesirable locations.

What really sucks is how teams circumvent the supposed fairness in the system by simply tanking...
Then the top level player they select is stuck with them through their rookie contract... and then they get to match offers...
Basically a draftee is stuck with the team for like 9 years because a team puts profit & commonsense ahead of honesty in the game.

Tank and have a star for about 9 years is ridiculous...

EwingsGlass
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2/1/2010  4:12 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/1/2010  4:13 PM
Pharzeone wrote:
Nalod wrote:
franco12 wrote:I looked at this the other day- and the way I understood it, he would have to sit out a year after his current contract ends, and at that point, he would be eligible again for the draft.

I recall Rubio's camp said he would do this if he ws still at his old team. That got him "Traded" to Barcelona. The thinking was he is still so young.

Yeah, Minny got him until traded or he sits out from a sanctioned league.

This is where Jimmy Jackson and his agent got fouled out.
Section 3. Loss of Draft Rights.
If for any reason a Team fails to make a Required Tender to a First Round Pick in accordance with Article X, withdraws a Required Tender to a First Round Pick in accordance with Article X, or renounces a First Round Pick in accordance with Article X, or if a First Round Pick selected in a Subsequent Draft does not sign a Contract for a period of one (1) year following such Subsequent Draft in accordance with Article X, then the rules set forth in Sections 1 and 2 above shall not apply, and such First Round Pick shall become a Rookie Free Agent. In addition, any Team that fails to make a Required Tender to a First Round Pick, withdraws a Required Tender to a First Round Pick, renounces a First Round Pick, or fails to sign within one (1) year a First Round Pick selected in a Subsequent Draft shall be prohibited from signing such player until after he has signed a Player Contract with another NBA Team, and either (a) the player completes the playing services called for under the Contract, or (b) the Contract is terminated in accordance with the NBA waiver procedure.

Minny cannot lose his draft rights unless they take action. He is a first round pick and there is no negotiations for 1st round picks. The rule being talked about applies if Minny refuses to offer him a contract before their deadline which they already offer. Rubio refused to sign the agreement/he could not get out of his contract. Minny cover their bases and cannot lose his draft rights since 1st round picks cannot be negotiated and are automatic unlike 2nd round picks. The NBA made it even harder for 1st round picks to escape from undesirable locations.

Yeah, you are wrong:

"f) If, during the one-year period of exclusive NBA negotiating rights set forth in Section 5(a) above, the Team makes or has made a Required Tender to the player and the player does not sign a player contract with any professional basketball team, then (i) in the case of a player who was previously drafted in an Initial Draft, the next NBA Draft following such one-year period shall be deemed the Subsequent Draft as to such player, and the rules applicable to a player who is subject to a Subsequent Draft will apply, or (ii) in the case of a player who was previously drafted in a Subsequent Draft, such player shall become a Rookie Free Agent at the end of such one-year period."

Accordingly, Rubio can simply sit out one year of "professional" ball and be re-entered in a "Subsequent Draft".

You know I gonna spin wit it
Rubio's future eligibility?

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