Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Finestrg:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Andy's pitching injured right now. He was pretty good (ERA around 4) for most of the season. If you can get a 5th starter who's better than Andy, then don't resign him. But right now, he'd be our #3 starter next year and that's IF Mussina comes back. The Yankees would need to sign FOUR quality starters this off-season (counting Mussina) before I felt confident turning Andy away. If you're gonna overspend in any one area of the game, it HAS to be starting pitching.
Not necessarily. Not if you move Joba to the rotation, then you have Chamberlain, Wang, Hughes and either Mussina or Aceves. They only might have to sign two starting pitchers: Mussina and Sabathia or Burnett or maybe even one if Moose packs it in (Aceves now gets a chance to be the 5th starter).
You go out and sign FA Juan Cruz for the bullpen to cover Joba's move to the rotation. IF THAT DOESN'T WORK for any reason, there will always be time to shift Joba back to the bullpen. The Yanks need to try this first. It's more cost effective and they'd look like geniuses if it worked.
Gardner 2 for 2 tonight against Halladay btw. Just scored the first run of the game....
[Edited by - finestrg on 09-25-2008 8:43 PM]
Joba's been a starting pitcher for about two-thirds of a season in his entire career and he's had injury problems. He certainly isn't going to be in the starting rotation all year and no one knows how he'll even hold up as a starter for part of the year. When you have the huge financial advantage the Yankees do, you don't need to make an unclear gamble like that. That's the biggest reason I thought it was a mistake to rely on Hughes and Kennedy. If the team had a $40 mil payroll, it would have been another story. But there was just no reason to rely on starters who hadn't proven themselves year in and year out. If we have 5 starters, Joba will get his chance when inevitably one of the starters gets injured. And he'll get a chance to continue building up his innings. Then if he stays healthy, maybe next year he could join the starting rotation from the start of the season because Mussina and/or Pettitte would likely not be back by then.
All of that said, if you do count on Joba as a starter next season, then we still need to add THREE quality starting pitchers this off-season. It's awfully uncommon for a team to add that many in one off-season. So as long as Andy fully heals, I wouldn't mind bringing him back. He pitched very well before his injury.
I don't agree at all, respectfully. Joba was a starter in the minors so when you consider his 'career' in baseball, minor league ball is considered professional ball. Starter in college at Nebraska also. It just so happens that when they brought him up to the majors they needed bullpen help, he had a power arm and he excelled pitching out of the bullpen beyond their expectations and they ran with it. Wasn't even given a chance to show how effective he could be as a starter at first. If he goes to the Arz. Fall League with Hughes, he'll be back on schedule to where the team wanted him to be when this season concludes. The decision makers (Hank, Cash, Joe) for this team all envision him as a starter. They've all came out and said as much. I believe they panicked when he returned from the DL and they never should have broke away from their original plan. Instead they gambled based on Joba's past bullpen success (remember they're thinking about making the post season when he got back, as we all were) - they thought they had enough starting pitching to squeak by and they thought Joba best served the team out of the bullpen down the stretch of the season. They are so rediculous in the way they baby this guy too IMO. He's a big strong kid. They need to put him in the rotation right from the beginning AND LEAVE HIM THERE (there's ways they can baby him there too, maybe they limit him to 85 pitches or 5,6 innings early on in April, May etc.). Jesus, it would just be nice if this team's brain trust just showed enough confidence and conviction in their own decisions. HE WAS SUCCESSFUL AS A STARTER. HE WILL BE AGAIN. You don't go into Fenway Park and beat Josh Beckett 1-0 if you can't handle being a starter. I bet you weren't calling him an 'unclear gamble' after that game Bonn. And IMO, you don't jerk Joba around by making him the main setup guy next year (which is what he will be, clearly, if they chicken out and he remains part of the bullpen) then all of a sudden spot start him when a starter sustains an injury. That's how you use a Darrell Rasner, a Dan Giese, maybe an Al Aceves. But not this kid. Joba Chamberlain's not some fill-in guy. It's stuff like that that will get this kid hurt. It's either one or the other, rotation or bullpen, and you stick to it.
Futhermore, Joba didn't get hurt because they made him a starter as a lot of people seem to believe. He got hurt because he got hurt. Simple as that. Freak little injury in the 100+ degree heat of Texas. It's not everyday that a pitcher has to suddenly hit the deck hard to avoid being hit by his catcher on a throw to 2nd base! And don't bother telling me that hitting the deck doesn't automatically give you rotator cuff tendinitis - I'll go along with that - but hitting the deck hard and the extreme temperature could have exacerbated it. You don't know. He got hurt just like Andrew Brackman got hurt. Just like Humberto Sanchez got hurt, Phil Hughes, Christian Garcia, etc... It happens. However, you put him in the rotation next year and that's one less starter you have to import or retain for millions (like retaining Pettitte for example - in my book Pettitte's an 'unclear gamble' at this point, much more than making Joba Chamberlain a full-time starter). Now I'm not saying we don't need a FA starter or 2. We do and I'm gonna want the best out there. I once believed we shouldn't bring back Moose and go for a guy like Jon Garland instead just because he's younger. I think I was wrong on that. I quickly realized Moose can come back and be effective and also that you just can't go out there and buy a whole new starting rotation. Even if you're the Yankees. Not realistic. There simply isn't the money for something as ambitious as that. Not when Sabathia alone will be asking $20 mil a season and big Mark Tex. is gonna want his too. There's a point where you have to start being creative and fiscally responsible. That's why I recommend bringing in Juan Cruz for the bullpen. He's the best bullpen arm out there that's available, he replaces Joba in the pen - power arm for power arm, allows Joba to move to the rotation w/o the pen losing much if anything, and he'll come cheaper than signing a Jon Garland and/or an AJ Burnett, being a middle reliever. We shouldn't be talking starter or closer money here for this guy.
[Edited by - finestrg on 09-26-2008 01:27 AM]
9/25/2008 3:16 PM
