Clean wrote:Yea bird rights and qualifying offers are two different things. By not extending a qualifying offer we just made him an unrestricted FA. We can still sign him to whatever we want since we have his full bird rights.

We have his bird right but are also constrained by whichever apron we hit on the Mikal trade? Is that right? I'm not sure

SupremeCommander wrote:

martin wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

martin wrote:Honest question: Would any of you taken the $74M for 4 over the $87m for 3?

I would have stayed in NY 100 out of 100 times.

Me, 100 percent, and I guarantee anyone reading this they would do the same in his position. He can set up generational wealth per freaking quickly. He gets to be a key cog on the best regular season team in the league and a team that's on the rise. I think once everyone puts down the koolaid they would say the same thing. If not then, maybe everyone would stop deluding themselves after they went home and talked to their wife

Everyone has a different definition of generational wealth.

Is there an official number?

oh come on. When have you ever been like "sure, I will work for 50 percent less". come on

everyone's definition is different, so he should subscribe to your worldview and take a 50 percent haircut 🙄

Except that IHart's contract with OKC is front loaded but only guarantees $59.5M over 3 years. So the question is, would you rather get a guaranteed $72M in NYK with a likely starting spot rotating with an oft injured player as well as fan adoration and a system that highlighted your skills....or......a balloon payment and guaranteed $59.5M over 3 years behind a #2 overall pick in a new system and fanbase.

https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/turning-the-page-0f3

Multiple Knick beat writers conveyed the fact that this was a very difficult decision for Hartenstein and that he wished he could have stayed. Lastly on the I-Hart front, Fred Katz reports that while New York was disappointed to lose their center, his departure “did not catch the Knicks by surprise.”

VDesai wrote:

martin wrote:OK, so what is the fall back plan then?

https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/turning-the-page-0f3

Multiple Knick beat writers conveyed the fact that this was a very difficult decision for Hartenstein and that he wished he could have stayed. Lastly on the I-Hart front, Fred Katz reports that while New York was disappointed to lose their center, his departure “did not catch the Knicks by surprise.”

I think they have a trade in play with one of these TPEs and some of the extra 2nds they acquired in the draft. These are the guys that fit the trade bucket:

Walker Kessler
Nick Richards
Dayron Sharpe
Isiah Jackson
Duop Reath

My question: Guy like Kessler seems like a really nice fit, right? Those seconds won't be enough or would they?

The unfortunate follow up question: Deuce in exchange for Kessler makes sense for both teams in the realm of even asset exchange?

Knicks are in contention. When you are in contention you do not fool around with a very important position in your system. I would guess they are targeting someone in exchange for Deuce as the value. It feels right and they need to make the Mikal trade part of like Utah, etc. with perhaps DFS and others moving.

Isiah Jackson could also be a target with the relationship with Pacers.

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/BenRitholtzNBA/status/1808160557398183971

VDesai wrote:The 3rd year is non-guaranteed and it essentially guarantees 59.5mm in 2yrs as opposed to 72 over 4. The 59.5 over the first 2 yrs is a little less than double the 33mm or so he'd have made in the first 2 yrs of his deal here.

If you could make 3.5 yrs worth of salary in 2 yrs worth of work and sit home on your butt for an extra 1.5 yrs in retirement you'd do that every day of the week.

Sure, makes sense if you're middle aged and worried mostly about retirement finances. However if you're a 20 something professional athlete you're likely thinking more about your chances at winning, coaching staff, playing time, impact, fit on the roster, teammates, legacy and next contract. Put another way. IHart blossomed under a coach, team and scheme from an unknown to getting $30M offers a year as a FA. Will that continue to be the case in OKC?

VDesai wrote:

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:

martin wrote:OK, so what is the fall back plan then?

https://knicksfilmschool.substack.com/p/turning-the-page-0f3

Multiple Knick beat writers conveyed the fact that this was a very difficult decision for Hartenstein and that he wished he could have stayed. Lastly on the I-Hart front, Fred Katz reports that while New York was disappointed to lose their center, his departure “did not catch the Knicks by surprise.”

I think they have a trade in play with one of these TPEs and some of the extra 2nds they acquired in the draft. These are the guys that fit the trade bucket:

Walker Kessler
Nick Richards
Dayron Sharpe
Isiah Jackson
Duop Reath

My question: Guy like Kessler seems like a really nice fit, right? Those seconds won't be enough or would they?

The unfortunate follow up question: Deuce in exchange for Kessler makes sense for both teams in the realm of even asset exchange?

Knicks are in contention. When you are in contention you do not fool around with a very important position in your system. I would guess they are targeting someone in exchange for Deuce as the value. It feels right and they need to make the Mikal trade part of like Utah, etc. with perhaps DFS and others moving.

Isiah Jackson could also be a target with the relationship with Pacers.

Yeah I think draft capital alone (2nd rounders/pick swaps) may not get it done for Kessler. That said Utah is in a weird spot as they have Eubanks and Filipowski behind Kessler and John Collins was starting at C for them ahead of Kessler. Maybe McBride would be a piece for them - with Sexton, George, Clarkson etc. maybe not an easy fit, but I guess let's see how it plays out. That said why sign Eubanks and draft Filipowski if they aren't thinking of dealing Kessler.

Its probably impossible for us to know what we're working with till the Bridges deal is finalized.

Knicks have some TPE's and the Detroit and Wash picks. From a Danny Ainge perspective, those might be worth something in terms of flipping the Kessler assets down the line and fit in playing time for the other tall white dudes.

Nalod wrote:
On last year of contract Capella might be a trade chip for ATL. If not, at 30years old he at some point becomes a buy out candidate. Most likely clears waivers and perhaps us to sign for the playoff push? I'd assume ATL is rebuilding still.

I thought that by being above the first apron, the Knicks are no longer able to sign people clearing waivers if they are making more than the MLE, like Capela is.

martin wrote:Cross these guys off list?

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://www.twitter.com/BenRitholtzNBA/status/1808160557398183971

Sharpe is still a very young player with good potential.I wouldn't give up on him yet. Especially when you consider the alternatives.

VDesai wrote:With Wiseman going to Indiana, Isiah Jackson feels like a potential target. From what I understand he is a Sam Rose client and he's a Kentucky alum. We gave the Pacers a nice deal last year with Toppin, maybe they return the favor here. IF we could get it done with a TPE and a couple 2nd rounders, its a no-brainer. I thought he was really good against us the in the playoffs. His energy, shotblocking and finishing ability in the paint were impressive.

Give them the crappy ass seconds they gave us and call it a day!

VDesai wrote:The 3rd year is non-guaranteed and it essentially guarantees 59.5mm in 2yrs as opposed to 72 over 4. The 59.5 over the first 2 yrs is a little less than double the 33mm or so he'd have made in the first 2 yrs of his deal here.

If you could make 3.5 yrs worth of salary in 2 yrs worth of work and sit home on your butt for an extra 1.5 yrs in retirement you'd do that every day of the week.

not sure i agree. the marginal utility of that extra money isn't the same when you're already talking 18mill/year isn't the same compared to someone making 50k vs 100k.

there are more important things than money. I wish no ill-will but i suspect as he's counting his money he might wonder whether it was worth it. He had a very good thing going here.