BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:So Hart or Grimes in the starting lineup? For me, this becomes

Brunson/Hart/Barrett/Randle/Hart until Mitch gets back.

Through 10 man
MM/IQ/QG/OT/JS

No disrespect to Grimes intended here, I would want to focus on him more in that second unit. Give him a larger role. Balance out minutes in the 2nd half to get guys ready for post-season.

With the Nets trading everyone, they may still hold on to a playoff spot, but that 5 seed vs the Cavs looks pretty enticing. I’d like to be there.

I think you need Grimes in the starting unit due to his three point shooting. Also, Hart's energy and versatility is made for the bench. He and IQ will provide a jolt. He'll get minutes plenty of minutes behind RJ and Grimes anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Not saying you're wrong, but are we sure that JHart will be in the second unit? I get the feeling that depends on Grimes hitting the 3. Hart hasnt been that great either, but he has more in the toolbox.

I would love to see IQ and Grimes taking turns running the point in the second unit. See how Brunson and his old Villanova teammate does to start.

Yeah and no. I think Grimes is a better passer and offensive connector, something you need with JR, JB and RJ. And even with his recent struggles, Grimes is still steadier from 3 than Hart. I also like the idea of Hart being a Swiss army knife off the bench who can plug in various holes, My only question is how much this cuts into RJ's stewardship off the bench unit.

I mean, Hart averages 4 asts per game and 8 rebounds. I like Grimes a lot, but are we maybe overstating his usefulness in a lineup that has 3 players with 27%+ usage? Hart does most of what he does without needing the ball. Kind of a better complement to our ball hogs. Putting Grimes back with McBride and IQ reunites what is probably our best defensive line. I think Grimes in a more solidified second unit actually gets him more touches.

Perhaps... I still see problems putting in a sub average three point shooter (this season) in a lineup that already has spacing issues. I might change my mind if Hart starts picking up from the outside.

My guess is that Thibs is going to give Grimes a few weeks to pick up the 3pt shooting. Having the the lowest scoring starting SG in the league, creates spacing problems of its own IMO. Allows elite teams to get off to a good start. If Hart is picking up his 3pt shooting, that might be enough to make Thibs want to start him. Feels like too much, too soon, for Grimes.

Benching RJ would be a bad idea. We saw what happened when he was benched for just a quarter. More than that, and Barrett will probably ask to be moved. Benching him wont help his trade value. I would let RJ finish the season, and then the FO makes a decision on RJ's future. There is still the OG trade to revisit.

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:So Hart or Grimes in the starting lineup? For me, this becomes

Brunson/Hart/Barrett/Randle/Hart until Mitch gets back.

Through 10 man
MM/IQ/QG/OT/JS

No disrespect to Grimes intended here, I would want to focus on him more in that second unit. Give him a larger role. Balance out minutes in the 2nd half to get guys ready for post-season.

With the Nets trading everyone, they may still hold on to a playoff spot, but that 5 seed vs the Cavs looks pretty enticing. I’d like to be there.

I think you need Grimes in the starting unit due to his three point shooting. Also, Hart's energy and versatility is made for the bench. He and IQ will provide a jolt. He'll get minutes plenty of minutes behind RJ and Grimes anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Not saying you're wrong, but are we sure that JHart will be in the second unit? I get the feeling that depends on Grimes hitting the 3. Hart hasnt been that great either, but he has more in the toolbox.

I would love to see IQ and Grimes taking turns running the point in the second unit. See how Brunson and his old Villanova teammate does to start.

Yeah and no. I think Grimes is a better passer and offensive connector, something you need with JR, JB and RJ. And even with his recent struggles, Grimes is still steadier from 3 than Hart. I also like the idea of Hart being a Swiss army knife off the bench who can plug in various holes, My only question is how much this cuts into RJ's stewardship off the bench unit.

I mean, Hart averages 4 asts per game and 8 rebounds. I like Grimes a lot, but are we maybe overstating his usefulness in a lineup that has 3 players with 27%+ usage? Hart does most of what he does without needing the ball. Kind of a better complement to our ball hogs. Putting Grimes back with McBride and IQ reunites what is probably our best defensive line. I think Grimes in a more solidified second unit actually gets him more touches.

Perhaps... I still see problems putting in a sub average three point shooter (this season) in a lineup that already has spacing issues. I might change my mind if Hart starts picking up from the outside.

My guess is that Thibs is going to give Grimes a few weeks to pick up the 3pt shooting. Having the the lowest scoring starting SG in the league, creates spacing problems of its own IMO. Allows elite teams to get off to a good start. If Hart is picking up his 3pt shooting, that might be enough to make Thibs want to start him. Feels like too much, too soon, for Grimes.

Benching RJ would be a bad idea. We saw what happened when he was benched for just a quarter. More than that, and Barrett will probably ask to be moved. Benching him wont help his trade value. I would let RJ finish the season, and then the FO makes a decision on RJ's future. There is still the OG trade to revisit.

Is it the low usage SG or the high usage SG who continues to shoot even when his shot is off? I think Grimes helps more with spacing than "Kobe" does.

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:So Hart or Grimes in the starting lineup? For me, this becomes

Brunson/Hart/Barrett/Randle/Hart until Mitch gets back.

Through 10 man
MM/IQ/QG/OT/JS

No disrespect to Grimes intended here, I would want to focus on him more in that second unit. Give him a larger role. Balance out minutes in the 2nd half to get guys ready for post-season.

With the Nets trading everyone, they may still hold on to a playoff spot, but that 5 seed vs the Cavs looks pretty enticing. I’d like to be there.

I think you need Grimes in the starting unit due to his three point shooting. Also, Hart's energy and versatility is made for the bench. He and IQ will provide a jolt. He'll get minutes plenty of minutes behind RJ and Grimes anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Not saying you're wrong, but are we sure that JHart will be in the second unit? I get the feeling that depends on Grimes hitting the 3. Hart hasnt been that great either, but he has more in the toolbox.

I would love to see IQ and Grimes taking turns running the point in the second unit. See how Brunson and his old Villanova teammate does to start.

Yeah and no. I think Grimes is a better passer and offensive connector, something you need with JR, JB and RJ. And even with his recent struggles, Grimes is still steadier from 3 than Hart. I also like the idea of Hart being a Swiss army knife off the bench who can plug in various holes, My only question is how much this cuts into RJ's stewardship off the bench unit.

I mean, Hart averages 4 asts per game and 8 rebounds. I like Grimes a lot, but are we maybe overstating his usefulness in a lineup that has 3 players with 27%+ usage? Hart does most of what he does without needing the ball. Kind of a better complement to our ball hogs. Putting Grimes back with McBride and IQ reunites what is probably our best defensive line. I think Grimes in a more solidified second unit actually gets him more touches.

Perhaps... I still see problems putting in a sub average three point shooter (this season) in a lineup that already has spacing issues. I might change my mind if Hart starts picking up from the outside.

My guess is that Thibs is going to give Grimes a few weeks to pick up the 3pt shooting. Having the the lowest scoring starting SG in the league, creates spacing problems of its own IMO. Allows elite teams to get off to a good start. If Hart is picking up his 3pt shooting, that might be enough to make Thibs want to start him. Feels like too much, too soon, for Grimes.

Benching RJ would be a bad idea. We saw what happened when he was benched for just a quarter. More than that, and Barrett will probably ask to be moved. Benching him wont help his trade value. I would let RJ finish the season, and then the FO makes a decision on RJ's future. There is still the OG trade to revisit.

Is it the low usage SG or the high usage SG who continues to shoot even when his shot is off? I think Grimes helps more with spacing than "Kobe" does.

Does the usage have either to be too high or too low? The FO shouldnt have passed on Goldilocks last draft..%@%&%@ Keels!

martin wrote:I dont see a scenario where Josh doesn't come off bench and play with IQ, Hart, RJ, Obi, iHart.

I agree. Knicks really started winning when Grimes was put in the lineup and they really need his shooting. Hart just doesn’t offer that. He may finish a lot of games though.

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:So Hart or Grimes in the starting lineup? For me, this becomes

Brunson/Hart/Barrett/Randle/Hart until Mitch gets back.

Through 10 man
MM/IQ/QG/OT/JS

No disrespect to Grimes intended here, I would want to focus on him more in that second unit. Give him a larger role. Balance out minutes in the 2nd half to get guys ready for post-season.

With the Nets trading everyone, they may still hold on to a playoff spot, but that 5 seed vs the Cavs looks pretty enticing. I’d like to be there.

I think you need Grimes in the starting unit due to his three point shooting. Also, Hart's energy and versatility is made for the bench. He and IQ will provide a jolt. He'll get minutes plenty of minutes behind RJ and Grimes anyway, so I wouldn't worry about it.

I mean, Q is a 36% 3 point shoot (career) and Hart is 34% career. Hart is bringing a lot more length 6’9 vs 6’5 wingspan for Q.

I think those screen assists from Hart are going to be valuable.

I’m not saying I’m certain on this, but I certainly think it’s more open for discussion than not.

Hart is like 6'4"?

With a 6’9 wingspan.

Not that it matters much, but Grimes has wing span just shy of 6'8".

I'm wrong. I misread Grimes chart. He measured 6'8 at the combine. So its 1 inch and worse shooting for more intangibles without the ball (screens, offball movement, rebounds)

Yeah, but I like said, worse shooting in a lineup that needs shooting. I'm not saying who the better player is, I'm just talking about fit. Don't you think all of the strength's you mentioned for Josh are tailored made for the second unit? Hart should be out sixth man.

Its not that much worse. 34% career vs 36% career. I do suggest makeing Hart swap with Sims with this change which will open up the paint some and can be compensated for with JHart's rebounding where Grimes is more parked outside the 3pt line.

JB/JH/RB/JR/IH seems like the obvious lineup to me.

MM/IQ/QG is a strong line that has worked amazing together. The opportunity to put that on the floor more often is valuable.

Rookie wrote:None of you seem to want to address the issue of ‘does Hart who can be a FA after this season see himself as a starter’. If he’s a team first guy and has already been guaranteed a payday by the FO then fine’. But if he sees himself as a starter does he buy in to a bench role and then bolt as a FA? Easier to move RJ and his inefficient shooting to the bench and let him earn his way back.

How about this: There should be no doubt that there are many ties to Josh within the Knicks organization. Leon has been his agent. Josh is still rep'ed by CAA. They probably have a good inclination about what type of contract he is looking for.

Obvious bro ties to Brunson and Josh looks like a really nice fit with Thibs and what the Knicks are running.

Is Hart, who only averages like 10ppg (with the rebounding and assists) really the type of player who would increase/decrease his value for this coming summer if he starts or comes off the bench? I don't think so. 2-3 months of playing off of Knicks bench won't lower his overall value and I'd guess his overall stats won't vary that much.

We aren't talking about taking a high teens or 20ppg player who a team kind of focuses on for either offense or defense necessarily. He is a well established, high level'ish role player. Bench, start, it really don't matter is what I would guess.

martin wrote:

Rookie wrote:None of you seem to want to address the issue of ‘does Hart who can be a FA after this season see himself as a starter’. If he’s a team first guy and has already been guaranteed a payday by the FO then fine’. But if he sees himself as a starter does he buy in to a bench role and then bolt as a FA? Easier to move RJ and his inefficient shooting to the bench and let him earn his way back.

How about this: There should be no doubt that there are many ties to Josh within the Knicks organization. Leon has been his agent. Josh is still rep'ed by CAA. They probably have a good inclination about what type of contract he is looking for.

Obvious bro ties to Brunson and Josh looks like a really nice fit with Thibs and what the Knicks are running.

Is Hart, who only averages like 10ppg (with the rebounding and assists) really the type of player who would increase/decrease his value for this coming summer if he starts or comes off the bench? I don't think so. 2-3 months of playing off of Knicks bench won't lower his overall value and I'd guess his overall stats won't vary that much.

We aren't talking about taking a high teens or 20ppg player who a team kind of focuses on for either offense or defense necessarily. He is a well established, high level'ish role player. Bench, start, it really don't matter is what I would guess.

Thats the thing I'd like to find out. If 10ppg is the best JHart can do as a starter. Blazers games have been blacked out locally for almost all of his time in Portland. Hard for me to gauge.

Maybe his role changes in NY. Because of who he's playing with now, new coach, system. Maybe not rely on Randle and Brunson as much for buckets. Would make things tougher on opposing defenses. More to worry about. Why Id like to see better than league worst scoring from the 2.

SergioNYK wrote:

martin wrote:I dont see a scenario where Josh doesn't come off bench and play with IQ, Hart, RJ, Obi, iHart.

I think at first Hart will come off the bench to spell RJ and Grimes but eventually I think Thibs will start him. We'll likely just have Hart replace Grimes and Grimes replace Deuce in terms of minutes.

I respect your posts but don't agree with this at all

Hart is not going to cut into Deuce's minutes at all

he will be 2/3 spelling RJ i suspect early on and perhaps cutting into Grimes but not mucgh

I see Thibs having RJ/Hart at 3 and Grimes/IQ at 2 primarily. of course there will be times IQ is 1, Hart or RJ are at 2 etc.

i also suspect there is no "plan" to start Hart. it will come down to who he think is playing best and fitting best. Grimes has to settle down a bit but promises more consistent shooting which would give him an edge at the 2