martin wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:"Dump Crowd" sound off!

For 3 unprotected first round picks and a young player on a controlled rookie contract

Let's get all Danny Ainge on them!

martin wrote:I don’t know how that’s calculated but ok!

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/theknicksrecap/status/1614679132989804550

He's got sourpuss body language, Heat Meiser hair, and his game is hard to watch at times but despite all that I do think we are lucky to have him

Nalod wrote:Seems of late Randle took things to a meaner level. Pacer game he was a bit out of sorts but went for 16 rebs.
More physicality going to the rim. This was a big part of his game before Thibs evolved him. WIth Fiz, and prior teams he was a interior terror.

RJ also having some in lane dunks also and exacting more physicality since his slow start. Our guys might have been a bit finesse but are finding some power.

Are slow starts by young players needing time to work in off season skills to instinctive levels?
As for Randle, he came to us young and he has developed. The dump crowd likes to point to his pre knick playing but he is a hard working young man who really got better as a knick. Not a smooth line always.
And he was a free agent.
As is Brunson.

We said nobody wants to come here? Better yet are getting players who excel AFTER they do. As a fan we have little to go on but past performance. Its why we suck at this. Its why its hard for teams to do this.
At this moment, Brunson and Randle are playing beyond their contract. Randle took a step back last season. Brunson might have hit his ceiling here but its thats fine. I expect he tails off some as teams learn to deal with him.
But now they have to deal with Randle.
Which leads to RJ at 22 and his still upside. Im optimistic that this knick culture grows players. I push back when I read we should trade for guys established but understand its not in every knick fan to have imagination given our history.
At this moment we are playing good ball, are in the hunt for a playoff (not play in) spot and I think Thibs is getting the most of this roster. Pundits and media given predictions should be thinking we are playing above their preseason thoughts. Who cares about predictions, the season is here and its going very good.
I don’t know if we at the level we can find a finishing piece, but its fun……..

Nalod, this is a really great essay. Nice work.

EwingsGlass wrote:Watching Randle lately, he is a step away from being elite. That’s not garbage. Or a throw away. He’s made real strides to improve shot selection and that was key. He is now settling for jumpers less. He is a little too willing to shoot the 3 with a hand in his face. He’s feast or famine there. 0-9 one game. 6-6 the next. I think we would all accept 6 for 15. It’s just that the 0-9 is glaring and the 6-6 gets overlooked.

Randle’s defense has been legit also. Guys have bad games against him. Giannis had 24 points, yeah, but that was a bad game for Giannis in an offense orchestrated to let Giannis score.

He needs to pick his head up with the passing. With his offensive skills, he could avg 6-7 assists per game. More than Siakam. He just doesn’t for reasons aforementioned. He kind of decides which possessions he is shooting and that’s that. Maybe a jump pass if he gets stuck. More likely a long jumper.

It’s time to put it all together and be elite. I think he can do it. He’s taken the right step to get me from coin flip on which Randle shows up this year. Now, he’s gotta add the passing and court vision to get All NBA PF.

I have been one of Randle's biggest critics and I still don't trust him leading our team and worry about the low BB IQ... that said I will admit he's played harder/more consistently on defense and has reduced the frequency of bone headed plays, spinovers and sulking when things are not going well. I still don't believe we should anchor to him but he's definitely been easier to root for this season. Wouldn't expect him to improve his court vision in year 9-10 and think we should accept him for what he is - a hardworking, feast or famine type of player that can help but not be the primary leader on a high level team. With him in the primary role here - we should anticipate more nights where we wonder if he can take the next step...followed 2 nights later with us all pulling our hair out and thinking he needs to go.

I do wonder if a different offensive focus (eg Brunson) would be a better way to get the most out of Randle as it would force him to be more selective with his shooting and hopefully more efficient overall.

East Wild Cards
Julius Randle
Jimmy Butler
If the last two years had never happened—both the highs of being an All-NBA jewel and the lows of his catastrophic follow-up—Julius Randle would be one of this season’s biggest stories. With zero missed games, the 28-year-old is averaging 24.4 points and 10.7 rebounds. All his advanced numbers are at or near a career-high level, and the Knicks can’t score when he’s off the floor. (Here’s every player who ranks above Randle in real plus-minus wins: Tatum, Luka, Jokic, and LeBron.)

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Watching Randle lately, he is a step away from being elite. That’s not garbage. Or a throw away. He’s made real strides to improve shot selection and that was key. He is now settling for jumpers less. He is a little too willing to shoot the 3 with a hand in his face. He’s feast or famine there. 0-9 one game. 6-6 the next. I think we would all accept 6 for 15. It’s just that the 0-9 is glaring and the 6-6 gets overlooked.

Randle’s defense has been legit also. Guys have bad games against him. Giannis had 24 points, yeah, but that was a bad game for Giannis in an offense orchestrated to let Giannis score.

He needs to pick his head up with the passing. With his offensive skills, he could avg 6-7 assists per game. More than Siakam. He just doesn’t for reasons aforementioned. He kind of decides which possessions he is shooting and that’s that. Maybe a jump pass if he gets stuck. More likely a long jumper.

It’s time to put it all together and be elite. I think he can do it. He’s taken the right step to get me from coin flip on which Randle shows up this year. Now, he’s gotta add the passing and court vision to get All NBA PF.

I have been one of Randle's biggest critics and I still don't trust him leading our team and worry about the low BB IQ... that said I will admit he's played harder/more consistently on defense and has reduced the frequency of bone headed plays, spinovers and sulking when things are not going well. I still don't believe we should anchor to him but he's definitely been easier to root for this season. Wouldn't expect him to improve his court vision in year 9-10 and think we should accept him for what he is - a hardworking, feast or famine type of player that can help but not be the primary leader on a high level team. With him in the primary role here - we should anticipate more nights where we wonder if he can take the next step...followed 2 nights later with us all pulling our hair out and thinking he needs to go.

I do wonder if a different offensive focus (eg Brunson) would be a better way to get the most out of Randle as it would force him to be more selective with his shooting and hopefully more efficient overall.

I think it’s pretty clear that the team needs 1 more player that is better than Brunson and Randle both, and when that happens, things will sort themselves out.

I think Thibs needs to reel Randle in when he starts playing too loose. He’s at his best when playing tight.

I know ATL handed us a nasty loss, but those assist numbers in the first unit were solid. I was looking for that. I think the second unit with Hart, Fournier and Toppin hasn’t got enough defense to translate. I really would be using Cam there. Second unit is a sieve and can’t get a stop.

Yep. Randle is not the most engaged player or the most mentally sharp. Gets caught up

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSkool/status/1617583812829118466

Rookie wrote:This was the 4th time we played them. You’d have to think they had gone over film and knew what Toronto was going to do. I have to ask, is Randle coachable. Then there are instances of RJ and Brunson getting trapped as well and I have to ask is it bad coaching

I am constantly looking at the players to see what they do in similar situation over and over and over again. It's unfortunate for us Knicks fans, but both Randle and RJ get overwhelmed IQ-wise very easily. I guess we can say RJ is still young but he has been in this similar situation too many times already to not adjust better IMO.

Brunson makes some mistakes but for whatever reason IMO they are just more about this being his first year being an offensive focal point; he'll adjust. He does get flustered some and overdoes dribbling, etc. but I am sure Rick is all over that.

Rookie wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Watching Randle lately, he is a step away from being elite. That’s not garbage. Or a throw away. He’s made real strides to improve shot selection and that was key. He is now settling for jumpers less. He is a little too willing to shoot the 3 with a hand in his face. He’s feast or famine there. 0-9 one game. 6-6 the next. I think we would all accept 6 for 15. It’s just that the 0-9 is glaring and the 6-6 gets overlooked.

Randle’s defense has been legit also. Guys have bad games against him. Giannis had 24 points, yeah, but that was a bad game for Giannis in an offense orchestrated to let Giannis score.

He needs to pick his head up with the passing. With his offensive skills, he could avg 6-7 assists per game. More than Siakam. He just doesn’t for reasons aforementioned. He kind of decides which possessions he is shooting and that’s that. Maybe a jump pass if he gets stuck. More likely a long jumper.

It’s time to put it all together and be elite. I think he can do it. He’s taken the right step to get me from coin flip on which Randle shows up this year. Now, he’s gotta add the passing and court vision to get All NBA PF.

I have been one of Randle's biggest critics and I still don't trust him leading our team and worry about the low BB IQ... that said I will admit he's played harder/more consistently on defense and has reduced the frequency of bone headed plays, spinovers and sulking when things are not going well. I still don't believe we should anchor to him but he's definitely been easier to root for this season. Wouldn't expect him to improve his court vision in year 9-10 and think we should accept him for what he is - a hardworking, feast or famine type of player that can help but not be the primary leader on a high level team. With him in the primary role here - we should anticipate more nights where we wonder if he can take the next step...followed 2 nights later with us all pulling our hair out and thinking he needs to go.

I do wonder if a different offensive focus (eg Brunson) would be a better way to get the most out of Randle as it would force him to be more selective with his shooting and hopefully more efficient overall.

I think it’s pretty clear that the team needs 1 more player that is better than Brunson and Randle both, and when that happens, things will sort themselves out.

I think Thibs needs to reel Randle in when he starts playing too loose. He’s at his best when playing tight.

I know ATL handed us a nasty loss, but those assist numbers in the first unit were solid. I was looking for that. I think the second unit with Hart, Fournier and Toppin hasn’t got enough defense to translate. I really would be using Cam there. Second unit is a sieve and can’t get a stop.

Yep. Randle is not the most engaged player or the most mentally sharp. Gets caught up

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSkool/status/1617583812829118466

This was the 4th time we played them. You’d have to think they had gone over film and knew what Toronto was going to do. I have to ask, is Randle coachable. Then there are instances of RJ and Brunson getting trapped as well and I have to ask is it bad coaching

This clip summaries why I was against building a team around Randle as the top dog. This also shows you the challenge to play against a zone. You have to have a certain skill set and even Brunson (who’s a great guard) was fumbling and stumbling. If players don’t know how to beat a zone by now, who’s at fault? Holding the ball against the zone is not the best way, unless your an elite player.

Same issue at all levels of basketball. That’s why I love playing matchup zone but can’t understand why Thibs doesn’t go zone. I’ve had a team that sucked on defense. 1 on 1 defense was terrible. We had a few Fournier type players. But we beat the zone with ball and player movement. In the starting 5 we have three players where the ball sticks while attacking the middle. It’s like nobody trust the ball to make it back to them after they pass, so everybody is trying to get their own. As a result, we get this sloppy half court stuff.

Move Randle and / or Thibs. Just start over. Can’t say we didn’t try. It’s been 4 years of RJ and Randle. Randle is the better player but I rather trade him than RJ who’s younger, could possibly play off the bench. He can play multiple positions. Randle is not that flexible. Only plays 1 position and would never come off the bench. Or find a coach who can get the best out of RJ and Randle.

Thibs, RJ and Randle trio has to split up. Even moving 1 of the 3 will help. Still have our picks and yoots so it’s not a huge loss. And it’s not like Randle alone can help us win a playoff series, so there’s no impact on wins and loses. We lose with or without Randle just fine.

blkexec wrote:

Rookie wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

martin wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Watching Randle lately, he is a step away from being elite. That’s not garbage. Or a throw away. He’s made real strides to improve shot selection and that was key. He is now settling for jumpers less. He is a little too willing to shoot the 3 with a hand in his face. He’s feast or famine there. 0-9 one game. 6-6 the next. I think we would all accept 6 for 15. It’s just that the 0-9 is glaring and the 6-6 gets overlooked.

Randle’s defense has been legit also. Guys have bad games against him. Giannis had 24 points, yeah, but that was a bad game for Giannis in an offense orchestrated to let Giannis score.

He needs to pick his head up with the passing. With his offensive skills, he could avg 6-7 assists per game. More than Siakam. He just doesn’t for reasons aforementioned. He kind of decides which possessions he is shooting and that’s that. Maybe a jump pass if he gets stuck. More likely a long jumper.

It’s time to put it all together and be elite. I think he can do it. He’s taken the right step to get me from coin flip on which Randle shows up this year. Now, he’s gotta add the passing and court vision to get All NBA PF.

I have been one of Randle's biggest critics and I still don't trust him leading our team and worry about the low BB IQ... that said I will admit he's played harder/more consistently on defense and has reduced the frequency of bone headed plays, spinovers and sulking when things are not going well. I still don't believe we should anchor to him but he's definitely been easier to root for this season. Wouldn't expect him to improve his court vision in year 9-10 and think we should accept him for what he is - a hardworking, feast or famine type of player that can help but not be the primary leader on a high level team. With him in the primary role here - we should anticipate more nights where we wonder if he can take the next step...followed 2 nights later with us all pulling our hair out and thinking he needs to go.

I do wonder if a different offensive focus (eg Brunson) would be a better way to get the most out of Randle as it would force him to be more selective with his shooting and hopefully more efficient overall.

I think it’s pretty clear that the team needs 1 more player that is better than Brunson and Randle both, and when that happens, things will sort themselves out.

I think Thibs needs to reel Randle in when he starts playing too loose. He’s at his best when playing tight.

I know ATL handed us a nasty loss, but those assist numbers in the first unit were solid. I was looking for that. I think the second unit with Hart, Fournier and Toppin hasn’t got enough defense to translate. I really would be using Cam there. Second unit is a sieve and can’t get a stop.

Yep. Randle is not the most engaged player or the most mentally sharp. Gets caught up

Tweet was deleted or there was problem with the URL:

https://twitter.com/KnickFilmSkool/status/1617583812829118466

This was the 4th time we played them. You’d have to think they had gone over film and knew what Toronto was going to do. I have to ask, is Randle coachable. Then there are instances of RJ and Brunson getting trapped as well and I have to ask is it bad coaching

This clip summaries why I was against building a team around Randle as the top dog. This also shows you the challenge to play against a zone. You have to have a certain skill set and even Brunson (who’s a great guard) was fumbling and stumbling. If players don’t know how to beat a zone by now, who’s at fault? Holding the ball against the zone is not the best way, unless your an elite player.

Same issue at all levels of basketball. That’s why I love playing matchup zone but can’t understand why Thibs doesn’t go zone. I’ve had a team that sucked on defense. 1 on 1 defense was terrible. We had a few Fournier type players. But we beat the zone with ball and player movement. In the starting 5 we have three players where the ball sticks while attacking the middle. It’s like nobody trust the ball to make it back to them after they pass, so everybody is trying to get their own. As a result, we get this sloppy half court stuff.

Move Randle and / or Thibs. Just start over. Can’t say we didn’t try. It’s been 4 years of RJ and Randle. Randle is the better player but I rather trade him than RJ who’s younger, could possibly play off the bench. He can play multiple positions. Randle is not that flexible. Only plays 1 position and would never come off the bench. Or find a coach who can get the best out of RJ and Randle.

Thibs, RJ and Randle trio has to split up. Even moving 1 of the 3 will help. Still have our picks and yoots so it’s not a huge loss. And it’s not like Randle alone can help us win a playoff series, so there’s no impact on wins and loses. We lose with or without Randle just fine.

so basically your saying they should do things differently, but not specifically.
Player is hot, he will cool off. It happens. Do you know his conditioning levels? If his leg still hurts some? On a minute restriction?
Its conceptual so you can say "should have kept him in".
As for trades, but nothing material.
Yoot? Not developing to what measurement? Sims?, IQ? Grimes? McBride are all failing? I think Mcbride is a month younger the RJ. Grimes is also just 22.
IQ is 23, Keels is 19. Obi is 24 to be 25 in march.
OBI seems to be disappointing.
Ask for a new coach, but assume all things the same its an improvement. You know if that's true, a new coach might be worse?
You did not name a single coach or what schematic he'd bring to improve the team.
They should hire you.