Knicks should focus on their draft

Welpee wrote:We are going to have to do something. We only have 7-8 players under guaranteed contracts. I doubt very seriously we're getting a difference maker via free agency this year and counting on getting one in the draft at 19 and 21 is going to be tough. Other than a trade I just don't know if there are better options.

You've created a scenario in your head where there are only two possible outcomes. The Knicks over trade and overpay Sexton and eat Love's horrible deal or they are ****ed.

There are actually more that two possible outcomes. The entire premise of the Cavs having the ability to force the Knicks to take Love into any Sexton deal indicates you don't actually understand the true leverage situation in the current environment.

You are also trying to forecast 2-4 seasons down the road and while there is a pathway for that regarding money, it only really factors in when you have a core locked into your roster ( for example, the Warriors trying to forecast money when they have Curry/Thompson/Green locked in is an entirely different situation)

You've overestimated the actual market demand for Sexton. If he's going to get a ton of interest, it will be from teams looking for a rental shot in the arm and the allure of trying to flip his full Bird Rights in the offseason via sign and trade after hopefully milking some playoff value out of him. That's rental interest, not long term interest.

One of my former college coaches, his wife is an "extreme coupon" person. They go and find deals in drug stores and grocery stores or whatever. They have a garage full of useless **** because she found a coupon for something but was obsessive about getting some kind of deal without regard to whether it was useful in context of everyday life or not. I'm sure some things she gets are very useful. But there is a clear problem of spending because she has it in her hands at the moment over rational thought about whether it actually makes sense on a broad scale.

You are locked into some bizarre "Buy One Get One Free" on some pool inflatables when you aren't in a place that has an actual pool.

There is no leverage situation where the Cavs can force Kevin Love to the Knicks in a Sexton deal. I don't know how you talked yourself into it but it has no actual marketplace reality.

What's the worst that can happen? Sexton gets traded as a rental to some team and the Knicks might have to consider a sign and trade this offseason or extending an offer sheet, just against a different franchise than the Cavs?

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Cleveland prob wants 4# 1 picks 3 swaps and Toppin

Knicks should focus on their draft

Yeah so we can draft another so so player that needs 4 yrs to become avg

99% of the players you probably want were drafted at some point. I'm sure the Knicks are focusing on the draft and possible trades. It's a balance.

ou are locked into some bizarre "Buy One Get One Free" on some pool inflatables when you aren't in a place that has an actual pool.

Welpee wrote:So given the success the Knicks had this season, you expect them to continue going bargain bin shopping versus attempting to go after significant talent upgrades as Woj and Derrick Rose have mentioned?

The Knicks have three well placed picks in a relatively strong draft class. The first six picks are all but a lock. The draft then flattens to the same rough pool to about 12 ish. But the Knicks could pick a guy at 19 who could have reasonably been argued as value for slot at 13. Their pick at 32 could nab a guy that could have been justified by a team in the early 20s. Useful players like Day'Ron Sharpe and Kessler Edwards might go in the mid to late 40s. There will be UDFAs in this class that would have been high 2nd rounders in another year.

While it would be nice to pick earlier than later, the benefit of picking when the draft goes extremely flat is you can pick a player you believe in without as much pressure for value for slot. OKC might not be all that hot about Scottie Barnes at 6th overall, but there is immense pressure to pick him there even if they like someone else better. Rookie slotting is also cheaper at the back end of the draft and the 2nd round pick is not guaranteed any money ( but in practical terms will likely get a contract edging in total dollars like a late first rounder)

The Piston grabbed Hayes, Bey, Beef Stew and Saben Lee last year. On top of Jerami Grant. And they rehabbed Josh Jackson. While most teams won't hit on that kind of volume in one year, it's not impossible for the Knicks to hit on a key contributor in this draft.

The Knicks have massive amount of cap space, meaning any team trying to lock into a massive three or four team deal will almost naturally imply the Knicks involvement to eat money. Not just Sexton. Sexton isn't the only trade possibility this offseason. Many teams will approach the Knicks about being part of a larger deal. Why not take some time to listen to them instead of taking a myopic view that it's Sexton or bust this offseason.

Good teams and well run teams take what the marketplace gives them. If that means more back end free agents, then so be it. If it means trades, so be it. If it means renting the cap space out for assets, then so be it. If it means doubling down in the draft, or moving up or down, then so be it.

You've got a serious case of blue balls with Collin Sexton trapped in your vas deferens and you can't wait to unzip your jeans and unload into Leon Rose's face. I don't get it personally. If you want a specific player, then you want a specific player. But you can't bend market reality to make it a better practical decision if market forces dictates that it's not.

BRIGGS wrote:Cleveland prob wants 4# 1 picks 3 swaps and Toppin

Knicks should focus on their draft

If thats the ask its an obvious pass. However if its Toppin, Knox, and a pick I would take that deal in a second. Its not easy to get scorers of his caliber at 22 on the open market.

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Cleveland prob wants 4# 1 picks 3 swaps and Toppin

Knicks should focus on their draft

Yeah so we can draft another so so player that needs 4 yrs to become avg

99% of the players you probably want were drafted at some point. I'm sure the Knicks are focusing on the draft and possible trades. It's a balance.

The problem I have is we don't keep them, we draft them and they are gone within 2 to 4 yr, and that's been going on for 25 yrs.

That trend figures to continue with this FO waiting to pounce on any star available.

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Cleveland prob wants 4# 1 picks 3 swaps and Toppin

Knicks should focus on their draft

Yeah so we can draft another so so player that needs 4 yrs to become avg

99% of the players you probably want were drafted at some point. I'm sure the Knicks are focusing on the draft and possible trades. It's a balance.

The problem I have is we don't keep them, we draft them and they are gone within 2 to 4 yr, and that's been going on for 25 yrs.

That trend figures to continue with this FO waiting to pounce on any star available.

So the premise of your response is that you would be ok with giving up 4 first rounders, 3 pick swaps and Obi for Sexton because of the Knicks draft history with different front office personnel over the past 25 years. Do I have that about right?

Aside from that, really unsure what your point is about the FO waiting to pounce on any star available. What moves has Rose made to date with the Knicks that would lead you to determine this hypothesis?

foosballnick wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Cleveland prob wants 4# 1 picks 3 swaps and Toppin

Knicks should focus on their draft

Yeah so we can draft another so so player that needs 4 yrs to become avg

99% of the players you probably want were drafted at some point. I'm sure the Knicks are focusing on the draft and possible trades. It's a balance.

The problem I have is we don't keep them, we draft them and they are gone within 2 to 4 yr, and that's been going on for 25 yrs.

That trend figures to continue with this FO waiting to pounce on any star available.

So the premise of your response is that you would be ok with giving up 4 first rounders, 3 pick swaps and Obi for Sexton because of the Knicks draft history with different front office personnel over the past 25 years. Do I have that about right?

Aside from that, really unsure what your point is about the FO waiting to pounce on any star available. What moves has Rose made to date with the Knicks that would lead you to determine this hypothesis?

He said the knicks should focus on the draft, which they will do their due diligence, my point is not about giving up draft 4 picks for anyone, it's about the reality. OBI and Knox are already included in any potential trade for sexton, so that's 2 knicks recent lottery picks (plus this yrs pick) that are still on rookie contracts, If Lillard is on the table, Leon won't hesitate to add RJ, Mitch or IQ.

I'm ok with this because like i always stated, I rather another team deal with the growing pains (even though it would really suck to lose RJ, i really like him)

Another factor is the knicks haven't drafted a Franchise player since EWING, what does that tell you about their track record, the players that have BLOSSOM in NY are Veterans they traded for or signed as FA.

Bad teams draft by talent, they don't care of the position of need, that's why cleveland has Garland and Sexton, We drafted OBI despite having Randle and Konx just because of his talent and from NYC even though we needed a pg, and now both teams are looking to correct their mistakes..