fishmike wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:

wargames wrote:Ya’ll realize there are a decent number of PG or Combo PGs that should be in our draft range

Josh Giddey
Tre Mann
Jaden Springer
Sharifs Cooper
Jared Butler
Ayo Dosunmu
Joel Ayayi
Daishen Nix

If the Knicks are looking they could probably come away with three of them and hope to hit on one. I rather they do that, try to keep some of the role players (Burk, Bullock, Rose. And Noel) and then also have money for Lavine or Beal.

I think keeping what we got, getting better PG play through the draft, and adding a high level scorer like Lavine or Beal is a better chance of a championship than adding Ball.

Like we have enough draft picks to hunt for a better PG, and back up PG. Ball is injury prone on the low, and I just get Timmy vibes from him the more I watch him. Aka I don’t think he would be reliable third option.

We don’t expect ball to be a first second or third option.

We expect him to be a floor general, play defense and Knock down the open 3.

Create more easy bucket opportunities in transition (Robinson/Toppin etc)

As far as your point I’ve had that theory as well. I have issues with a lot of guys on that list.

except it seems like most of the routes to adding Ball include paying like a 1,2 or 3 and is covered in week 1 of "how to **** up your roster 101"

IF WE WHIFF on the bigger fish we should look to incremental upgrades that fit our time line and keep us flexible. Ball at a reasonable rate for 2nd round pick compensation in a S&T seems about right.

My fantasy outcome would be this scenario and 18m a season

jskinny35 wrote:Since we're rolling with Randle as our guy (26y/o) I think better to go for Ball instead of drafting a PG with our pick (unless we move up to top 3-4). Ball would increase the passing/ball movement, and most importantly the pace. Teams need that when their engine stalls (eg Randle's off) and it forces more defensive pressure. Even in the Pelican game there were too many times when everyone was standing around while Randle went at Zion. Ball is like a younger Rubio with slightly better shooting and defense - he would definitely help and if we resign Rose and keep IQ - we'd really have a little of everything at the PG position. I'd go as high as $24m per for Ball.

I agree with you points. But if I’m the front office I’m trying to get him for as little as possible.
The more we save that’s money for another contributing player in the future

fishmike wrote:

xblvdels3 wrote:

wargames wrote:Ya’ll realize there are a decent number of PG or Combo PGs that should be in our draft range

Josh Giddey
Tre Mann
Jaden Springer
Sharifs Cooper
Jared Butler
Ayo Dosunmu
Joel Ayayi
Daishen Nix

If the Knicks are looking they could probably come away with three of them and hope to hit on one. I rather they do that, try to keep some of the role players (Burk, Bullock, Rose. And Noel) and then also have money for Lavine or Beal.

I think keeping what we got, getting better PG play through the draft, and adding a high level scorer like Lavine or Beal is a better chance of a championship than adding Ball.

Like we have enough draft picks to hunt for a better PG, and back up PG. Ball is injury prone on the low, and I just get Timmy vibes from him the more I watch him. Aka I don’t think he would be reliable third option.

We don’t expect ball to be a first second or third option.

We expect him to be a floor general, play defense and Knock down the open 3.

Create more easy bucket opportunities in transition (Robinson/Toppin etc)

As far as your point I’ve had that theory as well. I have issues with a lot of guys on that list.

except it seems like most of the routes to adding Ball include paying like a 1,2 or 3 and is covered in week 1 of "how to **** up your roster 101"

IF WE WHIFF on the bigger fish we should look to incremental upgrades that fit our time line and keep us flexible. Ball at a reasonable rate for 2nd round pick compensation in a S&T seems about right.

Exactly it’s a Timmy situation 2.0. I rather they keep some of our roleplayers and then see if Lavine or Beal want to join us. I don’t think Ball pushes us to being a contender with the roleplayers, nor would he bring the value of any combination of the two or even three of them his salary would equate.

At the end of the day something has to give. Either we let most of the roleplayers go (aka Noel, Bullock, Rose, and Burk), we get a young PG or PG’s instead of Lonzo or a Schroeder, or we give up attempting to sign Lavine and Beal.

Of those three scenarios not getting Ball seems like the middle way. Our floor is the majority of this team with young PG, but our ceiling would be this team with Lavine or Beal. And that ceiling is a top competitor team.

smackeddog wrote:Weird to think Mills and Perry’s main mistake from their offseason, was not matching the Rozier contract the Hornets offered him (they wanted him but not at that price)- Would have been a great addition to this team and a nice contract, and a good PG for Thibs system- imagine having Randle and Rozier locked up for another year at $18mil per each.

Yup, Rozier would be perfect here. Randle/Rozier would have been an awesome off-season.

Jimbo5 wrote:Not sure if this is even possible but if De'Aaron Fox would suddenly ask for a trade out of Sacramento, should the knicks break their draft assets and maybe include IQ and Toppin to get him in a trade?

Not sure what direction the Kings are heading to, maybe Fox miraculously as for a trade. Will he fit well with Randle and RJ in the starting line up?

This might be my dream line up instead of Lonzo. The teAm's roster depth might suffer of the Knicks engage on a trade for Fox but that will he a fun team to watch day in and day out!

They should investigate, but it would take more than that to get a deal done. They laughed off a KP trade proposal years ago.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:Not sure if this is even possible but if De'Aaron Fox would suddenly ask for a trade out of Sacramento, should the knicks break their draft assets and maybe include IQ and Toppin to get him in a trade?

Not sure what direction the Kings are heading to, maybe Fox miraculously as for a trade. Will he fit well with Randle and RJ in the starting line up?

This might be my dream line up instead of Lonzo. The teAm's roster depth might suffer of the Knicks engage on a trade for Fox but that will he a fun team to watch day in and day out!

They should investigate, but it would take more than that to get a deal done. They laughed off a KP trade proposal years ago.

Fox just signed his max extension. So lets say he pushes his way to the Knicks it could be good for both. Knicks trade IQ/Obi/Mitch + 4 first rounders for Fox (lets say this year's draft and 2023). You could resign Noel, bring back Bullock/Taj and Rose at a discount.

Crew would look like:
PG Fox
SG RJ
SF Bullock
PF Randle
C Noel
Bench: Rose/Taj/Knox

I’m not advocating for a “better Lock up payton” like some are clamoring for with Burks and Bullock but really, we doing ok. Few weeks ago in losing streak we looking for answers. What’s the question now????
If SAC wants to move Fox they gonna want RJ. Fox can ask for trade but they can tell him to eat shyt. You really think the will want picks? They will dump Walton, perhaps move another’s. I’m not trading RJ and two first round picks for Fox. He is not that good.
I don’t want Buddy or Bagley either.

nyvector16 wrote:Would that be a good contract if you have to say goodbye to one of Rose, Burks, Noel?

This season is Rose’s last hurrah

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Ball didn’t look great today. But the things he does still would really help this team. Rose looked great today finally.

Agreed. That said, back from injury and a PG that no longer has the ball in his hands wasn’t easy for him to do much in that lineup where they aren’t using him to initiate offense. That entire Pelicans team has talent but not a lot of teamwork.

Definitely didn’t leave me screaming for Ball, but makes me wonder what Thibs could do with that guy. He has the IQ, size and the skill to be an All Star.

Him not having the ball in his hands for stretches isn't an aberration. That's where he is right now. They've found more success with other guys initiating the offense. He's a secondary, tertiary ball handler.

Disagree. Its more about his multi-generational teammate who the coach wants running the team at some point. As well as a wing in Ingram who can also handle the rock. Not sure why this part is so easily dismissed by some.

Besides Lonzo plays too fast for them. He's usually a step faster than his teammates. Some of us see Lonzo on a squad that can push the tempo, with the right PG.

Believe part of it is that Lonzo makes tough passes look deceptively easy. Mitch/Noel/Obi the whole team, would all benefit from Lonzo's pin point accuracy.

Lonzo isnt like the current crop of stud PGs like Morant, with off the charts athleticism. More of a throwback. Some have mentioned Jason Kidd. Doesnt have the all around game, but Ball has the court vision. I'll take that.

I’m with Gustav. Ingram and Williamson really need the ball in their hands to play. Doesn’t leav a lot of room for Ball to operate. The Knicks seem to move a bit better off the ball. Randle and Barrett may be the same, but Barrett moves without the Ball. So does Randle. They both float out to the 3.

I’m not as crazy about Williamson as most people. Kind of feel like his body will keep catching up with him.

I’d still go for Ball, if only for his defense and hope that Jalen Johnson’s draft stock plummeted enough for the Knicks to swoop in and get him — even if they have to package picks to move up.

I think the Knicks could have a very opportunistic offseason and could make a couple splashes no one expected.

What about his stint with the Lakers? Dealt with the same issues. When the point Zion experiment was implemented, it was implied that it was done because the Pelicans did not have a guard who consistently initiate the offense.

A lot of players have left the Lakers only to blossom in recent years. Randle, Ingram, Russell and Lonzo. The lakers back then was the Kobe retirement show media circus I wouldn’t hold that period against them