Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

martin wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:If this trade is inevitable, which i think it is. I can live with giving up Randle, DSJ and the clips pick. Thats the best i can give with out me feeling horrible about it. I just hope the knicks get out bid by other teams and the only way to get him here is to make a melo type deal giving up our starting 5 for a 35 yr old favorite player of the president. Hopefully then Rose can see how foolish the trade is. One step forward, 2 steps back, we will get a great culture player for a price that is an arm and a leg! Please just give Frank and DSJ a chance to show what they can do with a fresh set of coaches to mold them.

My threshold for not feeling horrible about a CP3 trade is much less. OKC would have to basically give him away to the Knicks. If OKC is rebuilding and have moved on from CP3 and they need his salary off books / Cap relief, then Rose is not doing his job if he trades any major assets for CP3.

So what's missing here is that *WE ARE REBUILDING*! But let's scrap all that so that we can help OKC rebuild by taking the albatross off their back and putting it on ours.

Genius.

For randle, Knox and pick 27 .... that would be a huge haul for OKC for 36 year old Paul... but with that said I bet Paul plays till 40 41 ... and he’s off the books in 2 years. He would make our team instantly better. He would do wonders for our youth, and help change our losing culture. I just hope Knox doesn’t turn into a beast.

Look at it from OKC's perspective. They have a PG that just played out of his MIND this past year and they are willing to give him up for 2 non productive players and the 27th pick?

I get the age and $42M per thing. OKC got to show something in return

Cap space (see: Porky)

Cap space for a 35 yo PG entering his 15th season and making $42mil is a good deal. I just looked up the stats for Nash, Kidd and Billups. About age 35 is when the declines start showing. This would be a gamble from our point of view.

Jason Kidd in his last season at 38 years old was a big reason the Knicks won 54 games and made our last actual playoff run

Yeah, but Kidd came in to fill a smaller role and had a smaller salary cap hit on a team that was far more talented. Also, Kidd seemed to always be injured during that run.

Kidd’s leadership cannot be understated that season. Losing him we went from 54 to 37 wins with the same roster

Yes Paul would be the starting PG here playing more minutes than Kidd who was really a 2 that year. That said next season will be 50 games tops so that will help keep Paul on the floor at his best condition

Minus Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, Kmart and Camry.
That team was gassed by years end. Beat boston on its last gasp then to Indy 4-1. It was fun season but it did not build upon itself.
Paul has to be seen as a bridge type player. 84mil is a lot of cap to spend on mentoring.
perhaps we should look to spend on Jake.
From
State
Farm.

The years is more important than the money. Paul is only under contract for 2 more years. Dolan for all the s he gets (deserved) is actually a very good businessman and can absorb an $84 million salary like it’s nothing

If we don't get back any assets, then we're gambling two years of flexibility to make moves on the hope that Paul is motivated to play on a rebuilding team and has enough left in the tank. We have to get assets back.

What is the point of all this flexibility? We are never getting any big time free agents here. We have been trying this for 11 years now the only big FAs we got were Carmelo who is an anomaly we had trade for and Amare who was old and injured and we were the only team offering him the max

The Knicks can’t even keep Porzingis and we’re now going to sign Kawahi Leonard and Giannis Antekonompo

Unless the Knicks start making the playoffs even as just an 8th seed these weak millennial free agents will continue to run from us

NYKBocker wrote:I would not trade any youngins for CP3. Spinover for CP3 straight up only

Amen to this. And even then I am not sure tying up cap space on CP3 is the way to go. The Knicks getting kicked out of the first or even second round of playoffs thanks to CP3's heroics is not going to make us more attractive to top-flight FAs.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

martin wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:If this trade is inevitable, which i think it is. I can live with giving up Randle, DSJ and the clips pick. Thats the best i can give with out me feeling horrible about it. I just hope the knicks get out bid by other teams and the only way to get him here is to make a melo type deal giving up our starting 5 for a 35 yr old favorite player of the president. Hopefully then Rose can see how foolish the trade is. One step forward, 2 steps back, we will get a great culture player for a price that is an arm and a leg! Please just give Frank and DSJ a chance to show what they can do with a fresh set of coaches to mold them.

My threshold for not feeling horrible about a CP3 trade is much less. OKC would have to basically give him away to the Knicks. If OKC is rebuilding and have moved on from CP3 and they need his salary off books / Cap relief, then Rose is not doing his job if he trades any major assets for CP3.

So what's missing here is that *WE ARE REBUILDING*! But let's scrap all that so that we can help OKC rebuild by taking the albatross off their back and putting it on ours.

Genius.

For randle, Knox and pick 27 .... that would be a huge haul for OKC for 36 year old Paul... but with that said I bet Paul plays till 40 41 ... and he’s off the books in 2 years. He would make our team instantly better. He would do wonders for our youth, and help change our losing culture. I just hope Knox doesn’t turn into a beast.

Look at it from OKC's perspective. They have a PG that just played out of his MIND this past year and they are willing to give him up for 2 non productive players and the 27th pick?

I get the age and $42M per thing. OKC got to show something in return

Cap space (see: Porky)

Cap space for a 35 yo PG entering his 15th season and making $42mil is a good deal. I just looked up the stats for Nash, Kidd and Billups. About age 35 is when the declines start showing. This would be a gamble from our point of view.

Jason Kidd in his last season at 38 years old was a big reason the Knicks won 54 games and made our last actual playoff run

Yeah, but Kidd came in to fill a smaller role and had a smaller salary cap hit on a team that was far more talented. Also, Kidd seemed to always be injured during that run.

Kidd’s leadership cannot be understated that season. Losing him we went from 54 to 37 wins with the same roster

Yes Paul would be the starting PG here playing more minutes than Kidd who was really a 2 that year. That said next season will be 50 games tops so that will help keep Paul on the floor at his best condition

Minus Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, Kmart and Camry.
That team was gassed by years end. Beat boston on its last gasp then to Indy 4-1. It was fun season but it did not build upon itself.
Paul has to be seen as a bridge type player. 84mil is a lot of cap to spend on mentoring.
perhaps we should look to spend on Jake.
From
State
Farm.

The years is more important than the money. Paul is only under contract for 2 more years. Dolan for all the s he gets (deserved) is actually a very good businessman and can absorb an $84 million salary like it’s nothing

If we don't get back any assets, then we're gambling two years of flexibility to make moves on the hope that Paul is motivated to play on a rebuilding team and has enough left in the tank. We have to get assets back.

What is the point of all this flexibility? We are never getting any big time free agents here. We have been trying this for 11 years now the only big FAs we got were Carmelo who is an anomaly we had trade for and Amare who was old and injured and we were the only team offering him the max

The Knicks can’t even keep Porzingis and we’re now going to sign Kawahi Leonard and Giannis Antekonompo

Unless the Knicks start making the playoffs even as just an 8th seed these weak millennial free agents will continue to run from us

The point is to keep collecting assets so we are serious players when a disgruntled star becomes available. Meantime, we can watch and hope some of these seeds bear fruit.

Mills got fired for that same stupid plan, and you want the next regime to follow that,

You want Leon to sign a bunch of avg guys with friendly contracts that can be traded, guys who will have no interest in anything but the $$$ 1 yr deals, lose another 50 games with one and done players and continue to let any young players marinate in a losing culture.

fishmike wrote:

fwk00 wrote:There is NO Chris Paul market.

NONE. If the Knicks buy they damned well be getting a couple of future first-rounders coming this way. OKC can afford it.

except Dallas and Milw already showing interest. There is 100% a market for CP and if you dont think you are arent paying attention and its not going to be for free, he's gonna cost assets.

Dallas being involved is a scary thought. I can just see how they purposefully bid up the market for CP3 to mess with Dolan's psyche, so that he, bitter at the way he was played by Cuban twice (first with DSJr over Frank, then in the KP trade), gives up the house for CP3 just not to be "outsmarted" once again.

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

martin wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:If this trade is inevitable, which i think it is. I can live with giving up Randle, DSJ and the clips pick. Thats the best i can give with out me feeling horrible about it. I just hope the knicks get out bid by other teams and the only way to get him here is to make a melo type deal giving up our starting 5 for a 35 yr old favorite player of the president. Hopefully then Rose can see how foolish the trade is. One step forward, 2 steps back, we will get a great culture player for a price that is an arm and a leg! Please just give Frank and DSJ a chance to show what they can do with a fresh set of coaches to mold them.

My threshold for not feeling horrible about a CP3 trade is much less. OKC would have to basically give him away to the Knicks. If OKC is rebuilding and have moved on from CP3 and they need his salary off books / Cap relief, then Rose is not doing his job if he trades any major assets for CP3.

So what's missing here is that *WE ARE REBUILDING*! But let's scrap all that so that we can help OKC rebuild by taking the albatross off their back and putting it on ours.

Genius.

For randle, Knox and pick 27 .... that would be a huge haul for OKC for 36 year old Paul... but with that said I bet Paul plays till 40 41 ... and he’s off the books in 2 years. He would make our team instantly better. He would do wonders for our youth, and help change our losing culture. I just hope Knox doesn’t turn into a beast.

Look at it from OKC's perspective. They have a PG that just played out of his MIND this past year and they are willing to give him up for 2 non productive players and the 27th pick?

I get the age and $42M per thing. OKC got to show something in return

Cap space (see: Porky)

Cap space for a 35 yo PG entering his 15th season and making $42mil is a good deal. I just looked up the stats for Nash, Kidd and Billups. About age 35 is when the declines start showing. This would be a gamble from our point of view.

Jason Kidd in his last season at 38 years old was a big reason the Knicks won 54 games and made our last actual playoff run

Yeah, but Kidd came in to fill a smaller role and had a smaller salary cap hit on a team that was far more talented. Also, Kidd seemed to always be injured during that run.

Kidd’s leadership cannot be understated that season. Losing him we went from 54 to 37 wins with the same roster

Yes Paul would be the starting PG here playing more minutes than Kidd who was really a 2 that year. That said next season will be 50 games tops so that will help keep Paul on the floor at his best condition

Minus Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, Kmart and Camry.
That team was gassed by years end. Beat boston on its last gasp then to Indy 4-1. It was fun season but it did not build upon itself.
Paul has to be seen as a bridge type player. 84mil is a lot of cap to spend on mentoring.
perhaps we should look to spend on Jake.
From
State
Farm.

The years is more important than the money. Paul is only under contract for 2 more years. Dolan for all the s he gets (deserved) is actually a very good businessman and can absorb an $84 million salary like it’s nothing

If we don't get back any assets, then we're gambling two years of flexibility to make moves on the hope that Paul is motivated to play on a rebuilding team and has enough left in the tank. We have to get assets back.

What is the point of all this flexibility? We are never getting any big time free agents here. We have been trying this for 11 years now the only big FAs we got were Carmelo who is an anomaly we had trade for and Amare who was old and injured and we were the only team offering him the max

The Knicks can’t even keep Porzingis and we’re now going to sign Kawahi Leonard and Giannis Antekonompo

Unless the Knicks start making the playoffs even as just an 8th seed these weak millennial free agents will continue to run from us

The point is to keep collecting assets so we are serious players when a disgruntled star becomes available. Meantime, we can watch and hope some of these seeds bear fruit.

Mills got fired for that same stupid plan, and you want the next regime to follow that,

You want Leon to sign a bunch of avg guys with friendly contracts that can be traded, guys who will have no interest in anything but the $$$ 1 yr deals, lose another 50 games with one and done players and continue to let any young players marinate in a losing culture.

Its really not that black and white. First off Mills cleared cap space for Durant. What was evident was this was not a good team for him and his buddy to come to.
Just becuase it did not work in one off season does not mean you can't use some basic form as part of an overall plan. Big picture stuff.
We just cleared our FO and filled it with guy that have a good track record so consider there is a longer play here.
Its a chess game. You think Checkers.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

fishmike wrote:

fwk00 wrote:There is NO Chris Paul market.

NONE. If the Knicks buy they damned well be getting a couple of future first-rounders coming this way. OKC can afford it.

except Dallas and Milw already showing interest. There is 100% a market for CP and if you dont think you are arent paying attention and its not going to be for free, he's gonna cost assets.

Dallas being involved is a scary thought. I can just see how they purposefully bid up the market for CP3 to mess with Dolan's psyche, so that he, bitter at the way he was played by Cuban twice (first with DSJr over Frank, then in the KP trade), gives up the house for CP3 just not to be "outsmarted" once again.

fwk00 wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

martin wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:If this trade is inevitable, which i think it is. I can live with giving up Randle, DSJ and the clips pick. Thats the best i can give with out me feeling horrible about it. I just hope the knicks get out bid by other teams and the only way to get him here is to make a melo type deal giving up our starting 5 for a 35 yr old favorite player of the president. Hopefully then Rose can see how foolish the trade is. One step forward, 2 steps back, we will get a great culture player for a price that is an arm and a leg! Please just give Frank and DSJ a chance to show what they can do with a fresh set of coaches to mold them.

My threshold for not feeling horrible about a CP3 trade is much less. OKC would have to basically give him away to the Knicks. If OKC is rebuilding and have moved on from CP3 and they need his salary off books / Cap relief, then Rose is not doing his job if he trades any major assets for CP3.

So what's missing here is that *WE ARE REBUILDING*! But let's scrap all that so that we can help OKC rebuild by taking the albatross off their back and putting it on ours.

Genius.

For randle, Knox and pick 27 .... that would be a huge haul for OKC for 36 year old Paul... but with that said I bet Paul plays till 40 41 ... and he’s off the books in 2 years. He would make our team instantly better. He would do wonders for our youth, and help change our losing culture. I just hope Knox doesn’t turn into a beast.

Look at it from OKC's perspective. They have a PG that just played out of his MIND this past year and they are willing to give him up for 2 non productive players and the 27th pick?

I get the age and $42M per thing. OKC got to show something in return

Cap space (see: Porky)

Cap space for a 35 yo PG entering his 15th season and making $42mil is a good deal. I just looked up the stats for Nash, Kidd and Billups. About age 35 is when the declines start showing. This would be a gamble from our point of view.

Jason Kidd in his last season at 38 years old was a big reason the Knicks won 54 games and made our last actual playoff run

Yeah, but Kidd came in to fill a smaller role and had a smaller salary cap hit on a team that was far more talented. Also, Kidd seemed to always be injured during that run.

Kidd’s leadership cannot be understated that season. Losing him we went from 54 to 37 wins with the same roster

Yes Paul would be the starting PG here playing more minutes than Kidd who was really a 2 that year. That said next season will be 50 games tops so that will help keep Paul on the floor at his best condition

Minus Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, Kmart and Camry.
That team was gassed by years end. Beat boston on its last gasp then to Indy 4-1. It was fun season but it did not build upon itself.
Paul has to be seen as a bridge type player. 84mil is a lot of cap to spend on mentoring.
perhaps we should look to spend on Jake.
From
State
Farm.

The years is more important than the money. Paul is only under contract for 2 more years. Dolan for all the s he gets (deserved) is actually a very good businessman and can absorb an $84 million salary like it’s nothing

If we don't get back any assets, then we're gambling two years of flexibility to make moves on the hope that Paul is motivated to play on a rebuilding team and has enough left in the tank. We have to get assets back.

What is the point of all this flexibility? We are never getting any big time free agents here. We have been trying this for 11 years now the only big FAs we got were Carmelo who is an anomaly we had trade for and Amare who was old and injured and we were the only team offering him the max

The Knicks can’t even keep Porzingis and we’re now going to sign Kawahi Leonard and Giannis Antekonompo

Unless the Knicks start making the playoffs even as just an 8th seed these weak millennial free agents will continue to run from us

No. Flexibility is not about Starphucking our way to a title. There are lots of useful players who come available both in the FA market and through trade.

There's no magic about CP3. None. There are plenty of less constraining, equally talented alternatives floating around with equally limited markets.

We have to stop getting played for suckers - outbidding ourselves for bargain basement assets.

CP3 is a big name has been who has never been anywhere special enough to win a ring. Nice guy. Sells insurance. An ultimate sugar daddy.

Sure, we *can* trade for him if the benefits cover the risk, investment, and investment cost. If what is being given to us is an orphan mega-millionaire who like the plant in Little Shop of Horrors has an appetite for ever bigger paychecks for years, then we better be getting an insurance policy to go along with the money sink. That insurance policy is future picks.

You would have to have been completely Naive and foolish to think that a SPORTS AGENT, is not going to seek out players and coaches he liked and represented.

You had to Know the CAA is now in Bed with the Knicks pillow talking all day

Welpee wrote:If Conley is on the market and the price is a lot cheaper, I prefer going that route.

We can get Paul for basically nothing. Doesn’t get much cheaper

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

martin wrote:

fitzfarm wrote:

fwk00 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Jimbo5 wrote:If this trade is inevitable, which i think it is. I can live with giving up Randle, DSJ and the clips pick. Thats the best i can give with out me feeling horrible about it. I just hope the knicks get out bid by other teams and the only way to get him here is to make a melo type deal giving up our starting 5 for a 35 yr old favorite player of the president. Hopefully then Rose can see how foolish the trade is. One step forward, 2 steps back, we will get a great culture player for a price that is an arm and a leg! Please just give Frank and DSJ a chance to show what they can do with a fresh set of coaches to mold them.

My threshold for not feeling horrible about a CP3 trade is much less. OKC would have to basically give him away to the Knicks. If OKC is rebuilding and have moved on from CP3 and they need his salary off books / Cap relief, then Rose is not doing his job if he trades any major assets for CP3.

So what's missing here is that *WE ARE REBUILDING*! But let's scrap all that so that we can help OKC rebuild by taking the albatross off their back and putting it on ours.

Genius.

For randle, Knox and pick 27 .... that would be a huge haul for OKC for 36 year old Paul... but with that said I bet Paul plays till 40 41 ... and he’s off the books in 2 years. He would make our team instantly better. He would do wonders for our youth, and help change our losing culture. I just hope Knox doesn’t turn into a beast.

Look at it from OKC's perspective. They have a PG that just played out of his MIND this past year and they are willing to give him up for 2 non productive players and the 27th pick?

I get the age and $42M per thing. OKC got to show something in return

Cap space (see: Porky)

Cap space for a 35 yo PG entering his 15th season and making $42mil is a good deal. I just looked up the stats for Nash, Kidd and Billups. About age 35 is when the declines start showing. This would be a gamble from our point of view.

Jason Kidd in his last season at 38 years old was a big reason the Knicks won 54 games and made our last actual playoff run

Yeah, but Kidd came in to fill a smaller role and had a smaller salary cap hit on a team that was far more talented. Also, Kidd seemed to always be injured during that run.

Kidd’s leadership cannot be understated that season. Losing him we went from 54 to 37 wins with the same roster

Yes Paul would be the starting PG here playing more minutes than Kidd who was really a 2 that year. That said next season will be 50 games tops so that will help keep Paul on the floor at his best condition

Minus Sheed, Kidd, Kurt, Kmart and Camry.
That team was gassed by years end. Beat boston on its last gasp then to Indy 4-1. It was fun season but it did not build upon itself.
Paul has to be seen as a bridge type player. 84mil is a lot of cap to spend on mentoring.
perhaps we should look to spend on Jake.
From
State
Farm.

The years is more important than the money. Paul is only under contract for 2 more years. Dolan for all the s he gets (deserved) is actually a very good businessman and can absorb an $84 million salary like it’s nothing

If we don't get back any assets, then we're gambling two years of flexibility to make moves on the hope that Paul is motivated to play on a rebuilding team and has enough left in the tank. We have to get assets back.

What is the point of all this flexibility? We are never getting any big time free agents here. We have been trying this for 11 years now the only big FAs we got were Carmelo who is an anomaly we had trade for and Amare who was old and injured and we were the only team offering him the max

The Knicks can’t even keep Porzingis and we’re now going to sign Kawahi Leonard and Giannis Antekonompo

Unless the Knicks start making the playoffs even as just an 8th seed these weak millennial free agents will continue to run from us

The point is to keep collecting assets so we are serious players when a disgruntled star becomes available. Meantime, we can watch and hope some of these seeds bear fruit.

Mills got fired for that same stupid plan, and you want the next regime to follow that,

You want Leon to sign a bunch of avg guys with friendly contracts that can be traded, guys who will have no interest in anything but the $$$ 1 yr deals, lose another 50 games with one and done players and continue to let any young players marinate in a losing culture.

Its really not that black and white. First off Mills cleared cap space for Durant. What was evident was this was not a good team for him and his buddy to come to.
Just becuase it did not work in one off season does not mean you can't use some basic form as part of an overall plan. Big picture stuff.
We just cleared our FO and filled it with guy that have a good track record so consider there is a longer play here.
Its a chess game. You think Checkers.

We have been trying this nonsense for 12 years now and other than Carmelo who we had to trade for no other superstars want to come here

Enough is enough. If the Knicks had even made the 8th seed in 2018 Durant and Kyrie are both Knicks

Not true. Durant is making a career making fun of the Knicks and our media.