Knixkik wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If Frank was in this yrs draft, there's no damn way he would get picked before Trae or collen.

Most 2017 re-drafts have him in the mid to late 20's.

Show me re-drafts where he's in the mid to late 20s. All the ones i have seen have him in the top half of the teens. You love to take shots at this kid for no reason.

Knicks1248;

Re-drafts:

The ringer- 9th
Bleacher Report 13th
CBS Sports 10th
94 Feet 11th

There are 4 prominent sites with re-drafts. I could go on. I just feel like you need to get called out on your BS. I bet you can't show me one re-draft from a known site that shows a re-draft where he is in mid-to-late 20s, let alone "most." You won't be taken seriously at all when you post this type of nonsense, just an FYI.

why do you make it seem like im down on this kid, I don't know how many time i have to say i like frank a lot, but some feel obligated to make it seem like i don't because my expectations are a lot lower than those that have him as an untouchable player.

Those sites are prominent only when they have something good to say about the knicks, as soon as something negative comes out about the knicks, they trash them as idiots that don't know anything..lol

A player is as good as the system he's in, the talent around him, and his coaching staff. Lin and lowery are perfect examples

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If Frank was in this yrs draft, there's no damn way he would get picked before Trae or collen.

Most 2017 re-drafts have him in the mid to late 20's.

I look forward to the eventual back tracking. "Frank was my guy the whole time, I just didn't like the way Jeff was developing him".

As said last yrs draft. Scoring guards come along every draft. There is no immediate rush to acquire one due to the constant supply offered to the NBA. Young offers some uniqueness that makes him intriguing to look at and analyze. To see if he can provide game changing abilities. But guys like Frank offer unique abilities that you aren't going to find every yr.

Frank as a pure prospect can potentially do more on a basketball court than either of them. Would like to land a big like Carter who provides similar uniqueness and flexibility &/or a wing that can provide similar multi positional defending and versatile offense with premium lotto pick. Because that's the substance that will take to win in this league today.

"Scoring guard". So easy to find. So easy that we had to start Jarett Jack.

I dont believe you want to see anyone supplant Frank as a PG. You talk about turnovers, Frank was a turnover machine, and some of the most amateurish TOs a pro can make.

Talk about scoring being overrated. Nothing to do with little or no scoring from Frank? I know wait 4-5 years.

Yet we could have drafted Smith or Mitchell last year. Could have traded for Blesdoe or Kemba. Did sign Trey Burke. That is all based on just one offseason. The availability is there, Knicks just chose not to pull the trigger. But its not like there are NO AVAILABLE resources and as soon as one becomes available we need to jump on him as we won't see another one come along for years.

I don't even know if I view Frank as a pure PG like Martin does. So the notion that I don't want anyone to supplant Frank isn't accurate. They all play for the Knicks at the end of the day regardless. I wouldn't mind at all for another 2-way PG to be in the fold. I mean I was pushing for Knicks to show interest in Khryie Thomas wondering if he can translate into a PG or if SGA is a good enough lead guard to pair with Frank and provide 2 guards with 7ft wingspans locking down the perimeter. The type of risky innovation needed to force the NBA to adapt to you and maybe win you a chip down the road as you caught them off guard. This would allow Frank to be used all over the place depending on need rather than locked into one position. Same reason why I wanted the Knicks to find a way to nab Frank AND Mitchell at the draft last yr. If Mudiay actually reached his potential given his physical makeup I would be ecstatic.

Again, if players like Smith and Mitchell were so plentiful, fans wouldnt still be crying about missing out on Curry. There are scoring guards out there not so plentiful that the Knicks can pick one up in the draft any time they want.

How many PGs have we drafted that have come close to fitting the bill over the last 15 years? Not that easy. Burke was a former top ten pick, who had to get out of his own way before becoming a more well rounded player.

I just dont buy passing up on a player because he doesnt have go-go gadget arms.

Young's skillset transcends his measurements. I hope Frank turns into an All star. Not so confident in that happening that I would pass on a PG who looks like a game changer.

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If Frank was in this yrs draft, there's no damn way he would get picked before Trae or collen.

Most 2017 re-drafts have him in the mid to late 20's.

Show me re-drafts where he's in the mid to late 20s. All the ones i have seen have him in the top half of the teens. You love to take shots at this kid for no reason.

Knicks1248;

Re-drafts:

The ringer- 9th
Bleacher Report 13th
CBS Sports 10th
94 Feet 11th

There are 4 prominent sites with re-drafts. I could go on. I just feel like you need to get called out on your BS. I bet you can't show me one re-draft from a known site that shows a re-draft where he is in mid-to-late 20s, let alone "most." You won't be taken seriously at all when you post this type of nonsense, just an FYI.

why do you make it seem like im down on this kid, I don't know how many time i have to say i like frank a lot, but some feel obligated to make it seem like i don't because my expectations are a lot lower than those that have him as an untouchable player.

Those sites are prominent only when they have something good to say about the knicks, as soon as something negative comes out about the knicks, they trash them as idiots that don't know anything..lol

A player is as good as the system he's in, the talent around him, and his coaching staff. Lin and lowery are perfect examples

You may not be down on him, i am simply calling you out on your exaggeration when it comes to him. If you didn't have an agenda when it comes to him, you wouldn't be flat out lying about most re-drafts having him in the mid to low 20s. I am not one of those guys pushing his tremendous upside or anything like that, i am simply saying that if you put out that type of stuff, you will get called out on it.

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If Frank was in this yrs draft, there's no damn way he would get picked before Trae or collen.

Most 2017 re-drafts have him in the mid to late 20's.

I look forward to the eventual back tracking. "Frank was my guy the whole time, I just didn't like the way Jeff was developing him".

As said last yrs draft. Scoring guards come along every draft. There is no immediate rush to acquire one due to the constant supply offered to the NBA. Young offers some uniqueness that makes him intriguing to look at and analyze. To see if he can provide game changing abilities. But guys like Frank offer unique abilities that you aren't going to find every yr.

Frank as a pure prospect can potentially do more on a basketball court than either of them. Would like to land a big like Carter who provides similar uniqueness and flexibility &/or a wing that can provide similar multi positional defending and versatile offense with premium lotto pick. Because that's the substance that will take to win in this league today.

"Scoring guard". So easy to find. So easy that we had to start Jarett Jack.

I dont believe you want to see anyone supplant Frank as a PG. You talk about turnovers, Frank was a turnover machine, and some of the most amateurish TOs a pro can make.

Talk about scoring being overrated. Nothing to do with little or no scoring from Frank? I know wait 4-5 years.

Yet we could have drafted Smith or Mitchell last year. Could have traded for Blesdoe or Kemba. Did sign Trey Burke. That is all based on just one offseason. The availability is there, Knicks just chose not to pull the trigger. But its not like there are NO AVAILABLE resources and as soon as one becomes available we need to jump on him as we won't see another one come along for years.

I don't even know if I view Frank as a pure PG like Martin does. So the notion that I don't want anyone to supplant Frank isn't accurate. They all play for the Knicks at the end of the day regardless. I wouldn't mind at all for another 2-way PG to be in the fold. I mean I was pushing for Knicks to show interest in Khryie Thomas wondering if he can translate into a PG or if SGA is a good enough lead guard to pair with Frank and provide 2 guards with 7ft wingspans locking down the perimeter. The type of risky innovation needed to force the NBA to adapt to you and maybe win you a chip down the road as you caught them off guard. This would allow Frank to be used all over the place depending on need rather than locked into one position. Same reason why I wanted the Knicks to find a way to nab Frank AND Mitchell at the draft last yr. If Mudiay actually reached his potential given his physical makeup I would be ecstatic.

Again, if players like Smith and Mitchell were so plentiful, fans wouldnt still be crying about missing out on Curry. There are scoring guards out there not so plentiful that the Knicks can pick one up in the draft any time they want.

How many PGs have we drafted that have come close to fitting the bill over the last 15 years? Not that easy. Burke was a former top ten pick, who had to get out of his own way before becoming a more well rounded player.

I just dont buy passing up on a player because he doesnt have go-go gadget arms.

Young's skillset transcends his measurements. I hope Frank turns into an All star. Not so confident in that happening that I would pass on a PG who looks like a game changer.

Curry became a generational talent. Of course fans are still upset about missing out on him. Fans were also upset about missing out on Brandon Jennings from the same draft when he dropped 50pts as a rookie (he also played for the Knicks just last season) until he dropped off the map. The draft also isn't the only avenue to land a one.

The Knicks specific situation towards guards doesn't represent a scarcity throughout the league. ATL went from Bibby to Teague to Shroeder. Boston went from Rondo to Thomas to Irving etc...

How many first round draft picks have we had over the last 15 yrs?

I think there is a misunderstanding which is strange as I have pretty much clarified this multiple times by now. If Young skill set is transcendent of his measurements and potential flaws then there is no issue. The question is if he actually is transcendent of his measurements and potential flaws.

And we are arguing about a player who is going to be drafted by the Magic at 6.

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If Frank was in this yrs draft, there's no damn way he would get picked before Trae or collen.

Most 2017 re-drafts have him in the mid to late 20's.

Show me re-drafts where he's in the mid to late 20s. All the ones i have seen have him in the top half of the teens. You love to take shots at this kid for no reason.

Knicks1248;

Re-drafts:

The ringer- 9th
Bleacher Report 13th
CBS Sports 10th
94 Feet 11th

There are 4 prominent sites with re-drafts. I could go on. I just feel like you need to get called out on your BS. I bet you can't show me one re-draft from a known site that shows a re-draft where he is in mid-to-late 20s, let alone "most." You won't be taken seriously at all when you post this type of nonsense, just an FYI.

why do you make it seem like im down on this kid, I don't know how many time i have to say i like frank a lot, but some feel obligated to make it seem like i don't because my expectations are a lot lower than those that have him as an untouchable player.

Those sites are prominent only when they have something good to say about the knicks, as soon as something negative comes out about the knicks, they trash them as idiots that don't know anything..lol

A player is as good as the system he's in, the talent around him, and his coaching staff. Lin and lowery are perfect examples

You may not be down on him, i am simply calling you out on your exaggeration when it comes to him. If you didn't have an agenda when it comes to him, you wouldn't be flat out lying about most re-drafts having him in the mid to low 20s. I am not one of those guys pushing his tremendous upside or anything like that, i am simply saying that if you put out that type of stuff, you will get called out on it.

Gustav's points on Burke are a big reason to pass on Young as well. Burke was as good a college prospect as Young and yes... its taken a few years but he certainly appeared to have found something good.

HofstraBBall wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

Nalod wrote:
They say sometimes a sign of intelligence is knowing what you don't know.
1248 lacks this.

Are you serious? Someone likes Young and feels Frank is not suited for PG and you question his intellgence. Guess guys that post drunken nonsense are much smarter?

No matter how much the 24/7 posters on here claim it to be true...ITS NOT! Frank has not shown he is a modern day PG. In case anyone watches the NBA, there are not that many All Star caliber PG focused on defense and shooting in the 30's. Kemba, Kyle, Lillard, KI, CP3, Westbrook, Steph. In fact, if Frank continues this type of play, its safe to say he will be playing role minutes in within the next three years. BTW, guess the Knicks FO has no "Signs of Intelligence" or did they just invite Young out to their training facility for ****s and giggles? So lets just talk about what is REAL, not FAN dream state bull****, Frank was picked for PG. He did not play well at that position. Knicks seem to think he is better suited at the 2 and may be going after another PG in the draft.

I don't think his comments are based on him liking Young.

While I agree Frank needs to show more when speaking on his ability to run PG specifically. His shot attempts being as low as they were kind of exaggerate his fg%. Due to the volume Frank shot at. Frank would have only needed to hit 48 of the shots he took to be at 46% fg%. Basically he would have had to have made .6 shots a game based on his volume to jump 10% points which is pretty drastic. He would have had to have make only 20 more 3s total on the year based on the volume he took to jump from 32%-45% from 3. Him being able score as a play maker will probably take more seasoning than just one off season as well as his overall PG development. But him getting that 3 pointer down can be something that he can fix this off season.

That may be true. But that is one of my concerns for him, on offense, at the 2 and definitely at PG. Just not a style of play that fits in with NBA teams experiencing success in todays NBA. Meaning the PG that is creating and always putting pressure on the defense. He is not very aggressive nor does he seem to have a shooters confidence. Which btw, are tough things to teach. You either have that scorers mentality or you don't. I am hoping it was because of a new system, first year but if you look at some other first year guys like Kuzma, Mitchell, Smith, you see guys that have a more aggressive mentality.

Those guys are also more physically developed then Frank with more experience with US ball. Frank missed all combine, summer league and preseason. And didnt lift a weight in his life. Jaylen Brown gives me hope from a jump in offensive aggressiveness. As well as Franks last few games of him showing he at least is capable of doing it.

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If Frank was in this yrs draft, there's no damn way he would get picked before Trae or collen.

Most 2017 re-drafts have him in the mid to late 20's.

I look forward to the eventual back tracking. "Frank was my guy the whole time, I just didn't like the way Jeff was developing him".

As said last yrs draft. Scoring guards come along every draft. There is no immediate rush to acquire one due to the constant supply offered to the NBA. Young offers some uniqueness that makes him intriguing to look at and analyze. To see if he can provide game changing abilities. But guys like Frank offer unique abilities that you aren't going to find every yr.

Frank as a pure prospect can potentially do more on a basketball court than either of them. Would like to land a big like Carter who provides similar uniqueness and flexibility &/or a wing that can provide similar multi positional defending and versatile offense with premium lotto pick. Because that's the substance that will take to win in this league today.

"Scoring guard". So easy to find. So easy that we had to start Jarett Jack.

I dont believe you want to see anyone supplant Frank as a PG. You talk about turnovers, Frank was a turnover machine, and some of the most amateurish TOs a pro can make.

Talk about scoring being overrated. Nothing to do with little or no scoring from Frank? I know wait 4-5 years.

Yet we could have drafted Smith or Mitchell last year. Could have traded for Blesdoe or Kemba. Did sign Trey Burke. That is all based on just one offseason. The availability is there, Knicks just chose not to pull the trigger. But its not like there are NO AVAILABLE resources and as soon as one becomes available we need to jump on him as we won't see another one come along for years.

I don't even know if I view Frank as a pure PG like Martin does. So the notion that I don't want anyone to supplant Frank isn't accurate. They all play for the Knicks at the end of the day regardless. I wouldn't mind at all for another 2-way PG to be in the fold. I mean I was pushing for Knicks to show interest in Khryie Thomas wondering if he can translate into a PG or if SGA is a good enough lead guard to pair with Frank and provide 2 guards with 7ft wingspans locking down the perimeter. The type of risky innovation needed to force the NBA to adapt to you and maybe win you a chip down the road as you caught them off guard. This would allow Frank to be used all over the place depending on need rather than locked into one position. Same reason why I wanted the Knicks to find a way to nab Frank AND Mitchell at the draft last yr. If Mudiay actually reached his potential given his physical makeup I would be ecstatic.

Again, if players like Smith and Mitchell were so plentiful, fans wouldnt still be crying about missing out on Curry. There are scoring guards out there not so plentiful that the Knicks can pick one up in the draft any time they want.

How many PGs have we drafted that have come close to fitting the bill over the last 15 years? Not that easy. Burke was a former top ten pick, who had to get out of his own way before becoming a more well rounded player.

I just dont buy passing up on a player because he doesnt have go-go gadget arms.

Young's skillset transcends his measurements. I hope Frank turns into an All star. Not so confident in that happening that I would pass on a PG who looks like a game changer.

Curry became a generational talent. Of course fans are still upset about missing out on him. Fans were also upset about missing out on Brandon Jennings from the same draft when he dropped 50pts as a rookie (he also played for the Knicks just last season) until he dropped off the map. The draft also isn't the only avenue to land a one.

The Knicks specific situation towards guards doesn't represent a scarcity throughout the league. ATL went from Bibby to Teague to Shroeder. Boston went from Rondo to Thomas to Irving etc...

How many first round draft picks have we had over the last 15 yrs?

I think there is a misunderstanding which is strange as I have pretty much clarified this multiple times by now. If Young skill set is transcendent of his measurements and potential flaws then there is no issue. The question is if he actually is transcendent of his measurements and potential flaws.

And we are arguing about a player who is going to be drafted by the Magic at 6.

You are still suggesting that these players are plentiful when you need a high pick to have a good chance of finding one. Not easy to find in the second round, or FA, trade, unless you're paying top dollar.

Naming players and saying we could have gotten them easy, through the draft instead of picking players like Jordan Hill? Really? Well we didnt.

When an opportunity presents itself to pick a PG good enough to be a real threat, I dont want the Knicks to play it safe.

If Young's skill set didnt transcend his measurements, he wouldnt have been able to lead the NCAA in scoring and assts. Curry showed that quality in the NBA.

No guarantee Young can make the leap. At 9, and KP still without nearly enough help, the last thing I want them to look for is just another role player.

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If Frank was in this yrs draft, there's no damn way he would get picked before Trae or collen.

Most 2017 re-drafts have him in the mid to late 20's.

I look forward to the eventual back tracking. "Frank was my guy the whole time, I just didn't like the way Jeff was developing him".

As said last yrs draft. Scoring guards come along every draft. There is no immediate rush to acquire one due to the constant supply offered to the NBA. Young offers some uniqueness that makes him intriguing to look at and analyze. To see if he can provide game changing abilities. But guys like Frank offer unique abilities that you aren't going to find every yr.

Frank as a pure prospect can potentially do more on a basketball court than either of them. Would like to land a big like Carter who provides similar uniqueness and flexibility &/or a wing that can provide similar multi positional defending and versatile offense with premium lotto pick. Because that's the substance that will take to win in this league today.

"Scoring guard". So easy to find. So easy that we had to start Jarett Jack.

I dont believe you want to see anyone supplant Frank as a PG. You talk about turnovers, Frank was a turnover machine, and some of the most amateurish TOs a pro can make.

Talk about scoring being overrated. Nothing to do with little or no scoring from Frank? I know wait 4-5 years.

Yet we could have drafted Smith or Mitchell last year. Could have traded for Blesdoe or Kemba. Did sign Trey Burke. That is all based on just one offseason. The availability is there, Knicks just chose not to pull the trigger. But its not like there are NO AVAILABLE resources and as soon as one becomes available we need to jump on him as we won't see another one come along for years.

I don't even know if I view Frank as a pure PG like Martin does. So the notion that I don't want anyone to supplant Frank isn't accurate. They all play for the Knicks at the end of the day regardless. I wouldn't mind at all for another 2-way PG to be in the fold. I mean I was pushing for Knicks to show interest in Khryie Thomas wondering if he can translate into a PG or if SGA is a good enough lead guard to pair with Frank and provide 2 guards with 7ft wingspans locking down the perimeter. The type of risky innovation needed to force the NBA to adapt to you and maybe win you a chip down the road as you caught them off guard. This would allow Frank to be used all over the place depending on need rather than locked into one position. Same reason why I wanted the Knicks to find a way to nab Frank AND Mitchell at the draft last yr. If Mudiay actually reached his potential given his physical makeup I would be ecstatic.

Again, if players like Smith and Mitchell were so plentiful, fans wouldnt still be crying about missing out on Curry. There are scoring guards out there not so plentiful that the Knicks can pick one up in the draft any time they want.

How many PGs have we drafted that have come close to fitting the bill over the last 15 years? Not that easy. Burke was a former top ten pick, who had to get out of his own way before becoming a more well rounded player.

I just dont buy passing up on a player because he doesnt have go-go gadget arms.

Young's skillset transcends his measurements. I hope Frank turns into an All star. Not so confident in that happening that I would pass on a PG who looks like a game changer.

Curry became a generational talent. Of course fans are still upset about missing out on him. Fans were also upset about missing out on Brandon Jennings from the same draft when he dropped 50pts as a rookie (he also played for the Knicks just last season) until he dropped off the map. The draft also isn't the only avenue to land a one.

The Knicks specific situation towards guards doesn't represent a scarcity throughout the league. ATL went from Bibby to Teague to Shroeder. Boston went from Rondo to Thomas to Irving etc...

How many first round draft picks have we had over the last 15 yrs?

I think there is a misunderstanding which is strange as I have pretty much clarified this multiple times by now. If Young skill set is transcendent of his measurements and potential flaws then there is no issue. The question is if he actually is transcendent of his measurements and potential flaws.

And we are arguing about a player who is going to be drafted by the Magic at 6.

You are still suggesting that these players are plentiful when you need a high pick to have a good chance of finding one. Not easy to find in the second round, or FA, trade, unless you're paying top dollar.

Naming players and saying we could have gotten them easy, through the draft instead of picking players like Jordan Hill? Really? Well we didnt.

When an opportunity presents itself to pick a PG good enough to be a real threat, I dont want the Knicks to play it safe.

If Young's skill set didnt transcend his measurements, he wouldnt have been able to lead the NCAA in scoring and assts. Curry showed that quality in the NBA.

No guarantee Young can make the leap. At 9, and KP still without nearly enough help, the last thing I want them to look for is just another role player.

If Young had a transcendent skill set he would be a top 5 pick. That is TBD. His one college season was wildly inconsistent and it seems like the big arguments FOR Young regarding his inconsistent play are
1) he had no talent on his team and this will improve in the NBA
2) things will be easier in the NBA (fewer double teams)

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If Frank was in this yrs draft, there's no damn way he would get picked before Trae or collen.

Most 2017 re-drafts have him in the mid to late 20's.

I look forward to the eventual back tracking. "Frank was my guy the whole time, I just didn't like the way Jeff was developing him".

As said last yrs draft. Scoring guards come along every draft. There is no immediate rush to acquire one due to the constant supply offered to the NBA. Young offers some uniqueness that makes him intriguing to look at and analyze. To see if he can provide game changing abilities. But guys like Frank offer unique abilities that you aren't going to find every yr.

Frank as a pure prospect can potentially do more on a basketball court than either of them. Would like to land a big like Carter who provides similar uniqueness and flexibility &/or a wing that can provide similar multi positional defending and versatile offense with premium lotto pick. Because that's the substance that will take to win in this league today.

"Scoring guard". So easy to find. So easy that we had to start Jarett Jack.

I dont believe you want to see anyone supplant Frank as a PG. You talk about turnovers, Frank was a turnover machine, and some of the most amateurish TOs a pro can make.

Talk about scoring being overrated. Nothing to do with little or no scoring from Frank? I know wait 4-5 years.

Yet we could have drafted Smith or Mitchell last year. Could have traded for Blesdoe or Kemba. Did sign Trey Burke. That is all based on just one offseason. The availability is there, Knicks just chose not to pull the trigger. But its not like there are NO AVAILABLE resources and as soon as one becomes available we need to jump on him as we won't see another one come along for years.

I don't even know if I view Frank as a pure PG like Martin does. So the notion that I don't want anyone to supplant Frank isn't accurate. They all play for the Knicks at the end of the day regardless. I wouldn't mind at all for another 2-way PG to be in the fold. I mean I was pushing for Knicks to show interest in Khryie Thomas wondering if he can translate into a PG or if SGA is a good enough lead guard to pair with Frank and provide 2 guards with 7ft wingspans locking down the perimeter. The type of risky innovation needed to force the NBA to adapt to you and maybe win you a chip down the road as you caught them off guard. This would allow Frank to be used all over the place depending on need rather than locked into one position. Same reason why I wanted the Knicks to find a way to nab Frank AND Mitchell at the draft last yr. If Mudiay actually reached his potential given his physical makeup I would be ecstatic.

Again, if players like Smith and Mitchell were so plentiful, fans wouldnt still be crying about missing out on Curry. There are scoring guards out there not so plentiful that the Knicks can pick one up in the draft any time they want.

How many PGs have we drafted that have come close to fitting the bill over the last 15 years? Not that easy. Burke was a former top ten pick, who had to get out of his own way before becoming a more well rounded player.

I just dont buy passing up on a player because he doesnt have go-go gadget arms.

Young's skillset transcends his measurements. I hope Frank turns into an All star. Not so confident in that happening that I would pass on a PG who looks like a game changer.

Curry became a generational talent. Of course fans are still upset about missing out on him. Fans were also upset about missing out on Brandon Jennings from the same draft when he dropped 50pts as a rookie (he also played for the Knicks just last season) until he dropped off the map. The draft also isn't the only avenue to land a one.

The Knicks specific situation towards guards doesn't represent a scarcity throughout the league. ATL went from Bibby to Teague to Shroeder. Boston went from Rondo to Thomas to Irving etc...

How many first round draft picks have we had over the last 15 yrs?

I think there is a misunderstanding which is strange as I have pretty much clarified this multiple times by now. If Young skill set is transcendent of his measurements and potential flaws then there is no issue. The question is if he actually is transcendent of his measurements and potential flaws.

And we are arguing about a player who is going to be drafted by the Magic at 6.

You are still suggesting that these players are plentiful when you need a high pick to have a good chance of finding one. Not easy to find in the second round, or FA, trade, unless you're paying top dollar.

Naming players and saying we could have gotten them easy, through the draft instead of picking players like Jordan Hill? Really? Well we didnt.

When an opportunity presents itself to pick a PG good enough to be a real threat, I dont want the Knicks to play it safe.

If Young's skill set didnt transcend his measurements, he wouldnt have been able to lead the NCAA in scoring and assts. Curry showed that quality in the NBA.

No guarantee Young can make the leap. At 9, and KP still without nearly enough help, the last thing I want them to look for is just another role player.

Its not about never spending a premium pick on a scoring guard. But I would target more difficult pieces to acquire first. Due the the nature of them being more difficult to acquire. Now if a transcendent player is available to be had. I will take the transcendent player due to the same principals. As transcendent players being extremely hard to acquire and probably offering the same type of uniqueness I am talking about which is what makes them transcending.

None of the players I would look to draft over Young would be due to me looking to draft role players. But to have a collection of positionless players which is the trend the NBA has morphed towards. Hard to match up with a KP and Carter frontcourt who can play inside and outside and not gets destroyed off of switches defensively. Paired together with a guard like Frank who can defend PNR very well and hold his own on a switch himself. Any offensive guard you bring into a situation like that would have a field day. Now imagine if that guard was also pretty decent defensively himself.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If Frank was in this yrs draft, there's no damn way he would get picked before Trae or collen.

Most 2017 re-drafts have him in the mid to late 20's.

Show me re-drafts where he's in the mid to late 20s. All the ones i have seen have him in the top half of the teens. You love to take shots at this kid for no reason.

Knicks1248;

Re-drafts:

The ringer- 9th
Bleacher Report 13th
CBS Sports 10th
94 Feet 11th

There are 4 prominent sites with re-drafts. I could go on. I just feel like you need to get called out on your BS. I bet you can't show me one re-draft from a known site that shows a re-draft where he is in mid-to-late 20s, let alone "most." You won't be taken seriously at all when you post this type of nonsense, just an FYI.

why do you make it seem like im down on this kid, I don't know how many time i have to say i like frank a lot, but some feel obligated to make it seem like i don't because my expectations are a lot lower than those that have him as an untouchable player.

Those sites are prominent only when they have something good to say about the knicks, as soon as something negative comes out about the knicks, they trash them as idiots that don't know anything..lol

A player is as good as the system he's in, the talent around him, and his coaching staff. Lin and lowery are perfect examples

You may not be down on him, i am simply calling you out on your exaggeration when it comes to him. If you didn't have an agenda when it comes to him, you wouldn't be flat out lying about most re-drafts having him in the mid to low 20s. I am not one of those guys pushing his tremendous upside or anything like that, i am simply saying that if you put out that type of stuff, you will get called out on it.

knicks1248 gets an idea, draws a conclusion based on that idea, then makes up facts to support it, like the imaginary mock redrafts that all have Frank in the 20s.

Gustav's points on Burke are a big reason to pass on Young as well. Burke was as good a college prospect as Young and yes... its taken a few years but he certainly appeared to have found something good.

I remember him saying awhile back if there was a re-draft, Frank would go in the late first round. Even though he probably can't show 1 credible re-draft with Frank in the late first round, he stats that as fact simply because that is how he feels. So you're spot on with your analysis. He got that idea and then literally made up facts to support it. I am still waiting for his proof. I'm only asking for 1 example, let alone "most re-drafts" as he stated. But we won't get that for obvious reasons.

Yes what bothers me is that his "facts" are just his own speculation. I have not seen 1 drft mock ether from last year or this year re-draft mock that shows Frank in the 20's. Despie what he says he is not a fan of Frank. Thats perfectly fine but at least be up front about it.

Neither have I. I could care less about who he likes or dislikes, just please don't make up crap to support it, that's all i ask. Instant loss in credibility.

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:If Frank was in this yrs draft, there's no damn way he would get picked before Trae or collen.

Most 2017 re-drafts have him in the mid to late 20's.

I look forward to the eventual back tracking. "Frank was my guy the whole time, I just didn't like the way Jeff was developing him".

As said last yrs draft. Scoring guards come along every draft. There is no immediate rush to acquire one due to the constant supply offered to the NBA. Young offers some uniqueness that makes him intriguing to look at and analyze. To see if he can provide game changing abilities. But guys like Frank offer unique abilities that you aren't going to find every yr.

Frank as a pure prospect can potentially do more on a basketball court than either of them. Would like to land a big like Carter who provides similar uniqueness and flexibility &/or a wing that can provide similar multi positional defending and versatile offense with premium lotto pick. Because that's the substance that will take to win in this league today.

"Scoring guard". So easy to find. So easy that we had to start Jarett Jack.

I dont believe you want to see anyone supplant Frank as a PG. You talk about turnovers, Frank was a turnover machine, and some of the most amateurish TOs a pro can make.

Talk about scoring being overrated. Nothing to do with little or no scoring from Frank? I know wait 4-5 years.

Yet we could have drafted Smith or Mitchell last year. Could have traded for Blesdoe or Kemba. Did sign Trey Burke. That is all based on just one offseason. The availability is there, Knicks just chose not to pull the trigger. But its not like there are NO AVAILABLE resources and as soon as one becomes available we need to jump on him as we won't see another one come along for years.

I don't even know if I view Frank as a pure PG like Martin does. So the notion that I don't want anyone to supplant Frank isn't accurate. They all play for the Knicks at the end of the day regardless. I wouldn't mind at all for another 2-way PG to be in the fold. I mean I was pushing for Knicks to show interest in Khryie Thomas wondering if he can translate into a PG or if SGA is a good enough lead guard to pair with Frank and provide 2 guards with 7ft wingspans locking down the perimeter. The type of risky innovation needed to force the NBA to adapt to you and maybe win you a chip down the road as you caught them off guard. This would allow Frank to be used all over the place depending on need rather than locked into one position. Same reason why I wanted the Knicks to find a way to nab Frank AND Mitchell at the draft last yr. If Mudiay actually reached his potential given his physical makeup I would be ecstatic.

Again, if players like Smith and Mitchell were so plentiful, fans wouldnt still be crying about missing out on Curry. There are scoring guards out there not so plentiful that the Knicks can pick one up in the draft any time they want.

How many PGs have we drafted that have come close to fitting the bill over the last 15 years? Not that easy. Burke was a former top ten pick, who had to get out of his own way before becoming a more well rounded player.

I just dont buy passing up on a player because he doesnt have go-go gadget arms.

Young's skillset transcends his measurements. I hope Frank turns into an All star. Not so confident in that happening that I would pass on a PG who looks like a game changer.

Not to mention there's No way in hell phil would have drafted a AAU type PG. Base on his knowledge about frank, he looked at him as a good defender and spot up shooter who defers to his teammates, and that's exactly what he has shown. But ya'll want to now say he's more than that

more lies.... your talking to Phil now?

So phil didnt draft frank because he thought he would be a excellent fit to his system?

Fish stop playing yourself trying to prove me wrong, it's not a good look for you

You are putting words in Phil's mouth. "Base on his knowledge about frank". Thats pretty funny stuff you do.