CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Skudra wrote:winning? did he won something? apart from nice rookie contract?

Was a part of a winning team. He played well. 18 year old with men.
That's a bit special, speaks about character. You wanted more. You might have to wait.
You wanted more, it might not happen. Ever see a player at that age consistent?
You know about Kobe, you know KG, who came out at that same age.
You know the postscript. You don't know if this one. Might be he is average, might be a wall he had to work thru.
But you can't label the kid with accuracy. I can't either, but I can call him a prospect.

KG was one of the most athletically gifted players all time. Kobe had tremendous athleticism. They also were both fierce competitors on both ends of the court and had a mental toughness not seen in many players. Frank shares the fact that he came into the league as a teenager with them and that is it. The other stuff isn't there. Few players have that. Nothing about Frank screams athletic freak. He certainly could become a mentally tough player. I don't see that hof fierceness that those two had ever being a part of what might make him more than a rotation player.

LIke I said, you know the post script as KG and Kobe are HOF players. Kobe was a bit delusional in his shot choice his rookie year?
KG physically a bit light and got pushed around. They were high ceiling prospects. So was Bill Willoughby. Moses Malone did not light the world on fire his rookie year. Daryl Dawkins no doubt would have benefited from waiting.
But.....We know the careers of those guys. we don't know Frank. Phil was a nut, but he knew players as a coach. Gaines pretty good too.
Really the discussion was frank vs. Monk, DSM and Mitchell. THe focus always to the best player we passed on. And so does every other team and its fans.
And to think Philly moved up to get Fultz!!! Oh boy.
I think Frank doing what he did last season at 18 showed a lot of character. These guys fill out and get stronger too. Most 18 year olds including Kobe an KG all transformed. Kobe not until season three did he really start to shine. Remember what coach was able to take him to the next level?

martin wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

martin wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Frank 35% fg, 33% from 3...69% from the free throw...

I like how a few of you said he's on an upswing with his 3pt%... thats actually true he's shooting 46% the last 10 games! Hooray! But the last 10 games he's scoring 33% from the field and 63% from the free throw line....

He's giving us 4pts 2 assists and 1 rebound in 17 minutes the last 10 games. Even if you double his minutes to 34, he's only giving you 8pts, 4 assists and 2 rebounds... his defense is horrible too. Averaging .5 steals in his 17 minutes... while opposing point guards are torching him.

He's a guy that just doesn't belong in the NBA right now. Again his career is just starting, but it's not fair to other players to keep playing this kid when he doesn't deserve to play

I 100% do not understand this sentiment. Why not? Do you think getting experience is NOT a good thing? Even if he is not performing up to YOUR expectations?

Should we only draft and play guys that are 100% ready?

Frank is coming off the bench and getting minutes and experience, sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. This is how player development can be done. Players with potential should be given minutes to get used to the speed, physicality, and competition.

Good Post. We all knew Frank was raw. That doesnt mean he doesnt belong in the nba. i think some want instant gratifcation out of the draft. It may take Frank a year to really get comfortable BUT it may be worth the wait. Its not like the Knicks were ready to win now anyway. I like what ive seen from frank. Hopefully after the ASB Jeff stops jerking the kid around and let him and Mudiay pay together for the bul of the minutes

Heck, it may take Frank 2-3 years to even be an average player, and I'd still give him minutes as long as his game kept getting better.

This is what drafting a 18/19 year old is like. If you see and like the potential and the player is working hard (and even if on court performance sucks), you still give him time and minutes.

My hope is that next year we see huge growth from Frank, plus getting KP back around the first of the year and bringing along another lottery pick. By 2019/2020 season, hopefully Frank has ascended into a starting caliber guard, our 2018 pick makes a 2nd year jump, and KP is back to his all-star self and we can really become a playoff team. With the injury to KP, it's easy to be patient with Frank until his 3rd year.

Knixkik wrote:

Uptown wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Frank 35% fg, 33% from 3...69% from the free throw...

I like how a few of you said he's on an upswing with his 3pt%... thats actually true he's shooting 46% the last 10 games! Hooray! But the last 10 games he's scoring 33% from the field and 63% from the free throw line....

He's giving us 4pts 2 assists and 1 rebound in 17 minutes the last 10 games. Even if you double his minutes to 34, he's only giving you 8pts, 4 assists and 2 rebounds... his defense is horrible too. Averaging .5 steals in his 17 minutes... while opposing point guards are torching him.

He's a guy that just doesn't belong in the NBA right now. Again his career is just starting, but it's not fair to other players to keep playing this kid when he doesn't deserve to play

Nothing about his game right now screams 3 and D. He is a jumper away from being close to that guy (he's a good defender/not great). However, we've seen hundreds of athletes enter the league and were a jumper away and never found it, but found themselves out of the league trying to find their games in China or Europe or the old CBA or the USBL or teaching PE in a city high school....We'll see how Frank turns out...

Frank has a jumper. 34% 3pt at age 19 is decent. It's league average. Obviously he will improve on that. He is the best shooting PG in the top 10 to this point. He is also the best defensive player in the draft so far. He is also the youngest player in the draft. These things take time. He has shown enough flashes that he will at least be a useful role player. His number are just low because he's incredibly timid on offense, but it has nothing to do with ability.

Frank has the worse FG% of all the pg's in the top ten at 35%...Its not obvious he will improve, its hopeful. Being the youngest in the draft is overstated. Most of the guys in the draft are 19 or 20 which isn't much of a difference especially when you consider Fox, (who is only 6 months older than Frank) and Smith and others did not have pro experience when they entered the NBA. We were told that Frank had and advantage on these players because he played against pros in a supposed tougher league than the NCAA...

BigDaddyG wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Uptown wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Frank 35% fg, 33% from 3...69% from the free throw...

I like how a few of you said he's on an upswing with his 3pt%... thats actually true he's shooting 46% the last 10 games! Hooray! But the last 10 games he's scoring 33% from the field and 63% from the free throw line....

He's giving us 4pts 2 assists and 1 rebound in 17 minutes the last 10 games. Even if you double his minutes to 34, he's only giving you 8pts, 4 assists and 2 rebounds... his defense is horrible too. Averaging .5 steals in his 17 minutes... while opposing point guards are torching him.

He's a guy that just doesn't belong in the NBA right now. Again his career is just starting, but it's not fair to other players to keep playing this kid when he doesn't deserve to play

Nothing about his game right now screams 3 and D. He is a jumper away from being close to that guy (he's a good defender/not great). However, we've seen hundreds of athletes enter the league and were a jumper away and never found it, but found themselves out of the league trying to find their games in China or Europe or the old CBA or the USBL or teaching PE in a city high school....We'll see how Frank turns out...

Frank has a jumper. 34% 3pt at age 19 is decent. It's league average. Obviously he will improve on that. He is the best shooting PG in the top 10 to this point. He is also the best defensive player in the draft so far. He is also the youngest player in the draft. These things take time. He has shown enough flashes that he will at least be a useful role player. His number are just low because he's incredibly timid on offense, but it has nothing to do with ability.

Frank has the worse FG% of all the pg's in the top ten at 35%...Its not obvious he will improve, its hopeful. Being the youngest in the draft is overstated. Most of the guys in the draft are 19 or 20 which isn't much of a difference especially when you consider Fox, (who is only 6 months older than Frank) and Smith and others did not have pro experience when they entered the NBA. We were told that Frank had and advantage on these players because he played against pros in a supposed tougher league than the NCAA...

Frank's FG% is basically tied with Ball's (.3%), yet I don't sense the same amount pessimism from Lakers fans regarding Ball's shooting. Plus, Frank has the highest 3 point fg,% of all PGs in the top 10. What does this tell us in the long run? Nothing, except there are bunch of young lead guards on this draft class that need to develop. Unless you have an accurate system to project player 3-5 years out, it's too early read anything into rookie year stats

Nalod wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Skudra wrote:winning? did he won something? apart from nice rookie contract?

Was a part of a winning team. He played well. 18 year old with men.
That's a bit special, speaks about character. You wanted more. You might have to wait.
You wanted more, it might not happen. Ever see a player at that age consistent?
You know about Kobe, you know KG, who came out at that same age.
You know the postscript. You don't know if this one. Might be he is average, might be a wall he had to work thru.
But you can't label the kid with accuracy. I can't either, but I can call him a prospect.

KG was one of the most athletically gifted players all time. Kobe had tremendous athleticism. They also were both fierce competitors on both ends of the court and had a mental toughness not seen in many players. Frank shares the fact that he came into the league as a teenager with them and that is it. The other stuff isn't there. Few players have that. Nothing about Frank screams athletic freak. He certainly could become a mentally tough player. I don't see that hof fierceness that those two had ever being a part of what might make him more than a rotation player.

LIke I said, you know the post script as KG and Kobe are HOF players. Kobe was a bit delusional in his shot choice his rookie year?
KG physically a bit light and got pushed around. They were high ceiling prospects. So was Bill Willoughby. Moses Malone did not light the world on fire his rookie year. Daryl Dawkins no doubt would have benefited from waiting.
But.....We know the careers of those guys. we don't know Frank. Phil was a nut, but he knew players as a coach. Gaines pretty good too.
Really the discussion was frank vs. Monk, DSM and Mitchell. THe focus always to the best player we passed on. And so does every other team and its fans.
And to think Philly moved up to get Fultz!!! Oh boy.
I think Frank doing what he did last season at 18 showed a lot of character. These guys fill out and get stronger too. Most 18 year olds including Kobe an KG all transformed. Kobe not until season three did he really start to shine. Remember what coach was able to take him to the next level?

StarksEwing1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Uptown wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Frank 35% fg, 33% from 3...69% from the free throw...

I like how a few of you said he's on an upswing with his 3pt%... thats actually true he's shooting 46% the last 10 games! Hooray! But the last 10 games he's scoring 33% from the field and 63% from the free throw line....

He's giving us 4pts 2 assists and 1 rebound in 17 minutes the last 10 games. Even if you double his minutes to 34, he's only giving you 8pts, 4 assists and 2 rebounds... his defense is horrible too. Averaging .5 steals in his 17 minutes... while opposing point guards are torching him.

He's a guy that just doesn't belong in the NBA right now. Again his career is just starting, but it's not fair to other players to keep playing this kid when he doesn't deserve to play

Nothing about his game right now screams 3 and D. He is a jumper away from being close to that guy (he's a good defender/not great). However, we've seen hundreds of athletes enter the league and were a jumper away and never found it, but found themselves out of the league trying to find their games in China or Europe or the old CBA or the USBL or teaching PE in a city high school....We'll see how Frank turns out...

Frank has a jumper. 34% 3pt at age 19 is decent. It's league average. Obviously he will improve on that. He is the best shooting PG in the top 10 to this point. He is also the best defensive player in the draft so far. He is also the youngest player in the draft. These things take time. He has shown enough flashes that he will at least be a useful role player. His number are just low because he's incredibly timid on offense, but it has nothing to do with ability.

Frank has the worse FG% of all the pg's in the top ten at 35%...Its not obvious he will improve, its hopeful. Being the youngest in the draft is overstated. Most of the guys in the draft are 19 or 20 which isn't much of a difference especially when you consider Fox, (who is only 6 months older than Frank) and Smith and others did not have pro experience when they entered the NBA. We were told that Frank had and advantage on these players because he played against pros in a supposed tougher league than the NCAA...

Frank's FG% is basically tied with Ball's (.3%), yet I don't sense the same amount pessimism from Lakers fans regarding Ball's shooting. Plus, Frank has the highest 3 point fg,% of all PGs in the top 10. What does this tell us in the long run? Nothing, except there are bunch of young lead guards on this draft class that need to develop. Unless you have an accurate system to project player 3-5 years out, it's too early read anything into rookie year stats

Exactly. Like i mentioned before some wnat instant gratification. Most of us knew Frank was raw and it would take time especially since he is one of the youngest players in the league

Dont think this is true. The reason he climbed to 8th pick and why so many were saying he was a better pick than others is because of his advanced maturity, BB IQ, experience against "grown men/NBA type competition and rediness to contribute at this level. Fact is, that was just not true and those same people are now excusing their failed perception with the "he is only 19" narrative. Not saying that this was you. You probably were able to see, as I did, that any 19 year old, is a long term project and more of a risk. Problem is, a long term project should not be taken as an 8th pick. Most on here think that is calling the kid out. Its not. Im calling out the people that chose him and passed on others that have shown they were closer to contributing. I really do hope and think the kid will figure it out. But it wont change my oppinion that a Euro 19 year old, with limited exposure, should not be taken at the 8 spot.

EnySpree wrote:

martin wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

martin wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Frank 35% fg, 33% from 3...69% from the free throw...

I like how a few of you said he's on an upswing with his 3pt%... thats actually true he's shooting 46% the last 10 games! Hooray! But the last 10 games he's scoring 33% from the field and 63% from the free throw line....

He's giving us 4pts 2 assists and 1 rebound in 17 minutes the last 10 games. Even if you double his minutes to 34, he's only giving you 8pts, 4 assists and 2 rebounds... his defense is horrible too. Averaging .5 steals in his 17 minutes... while opposing point guards are torching him.

He's a guy that just doesn't belong in the NBA right now. Again his career is just starting, but it's not fair to other players to keep playing this kid when he doesn't deserve to play

I 100% do not understand this sentiment. Why not? Do you think getting experience is NOT a good thing? Even if he is not performing up to YOUR expectations?

Should we only draft and play guys that are 100% ready?

Frank is coming off the bench and getting minutes and experience, sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. This is how player development can be done. Players with potential should be given minutes to get used to the speed, physicality, and competition.

Good Post. We all knew Frank was raw. That doesnt mean he doesnt belong in the nba. i think some want instant gratifcation out of the draft. It may take Frank a year to really get comfortable BUT it may be worth the wait. Its not like the Knicks were ready to win now anyway. I like what ive seen from frank. Hopefully after the ASB Jeff stops jerking the kid around and let him and Mudiay pay together for the bul of the minutes

Heck, it may take Frank 2-3 years to even be an average player, and I'd still give him minutes as long as his game kept getting better.

This is what drafting a 18/19 year old is like. If you see and like the potential and the player is working hard (and even if on court performance sucks), you still give him time and minutes.

If you guys condone playing guys that don't deserve to play because you want to develop them, then you have truly lost your kool aid loving minds. This is the top level of basketball. This is not where guys learn how to play. Frank has to learn how to play. I been posting stats like crazy but anyhow that's still not enough. You guys just want to play the kid hoping he learns how to play. So we're supposed to force Frank to play for 2-3 years when he doesn't deserve to? I mean what are you even saying? No player in the NBA deserves that treatment. That's just as bad as signing JR Smith's brother.

I'm not saying trade Frank. He's 19... you don't give up on the kid.... but we don't reward a guy even he doesn't deserve to be out there. Mudiay and Burke earned their time. Frank shouldn't be playing over them, especially even he's playing 20 minutes and only getting 2 rebounds in games. Tats not fair to guys that are contributing

Knixkik wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

martin wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

martin wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Frank 35% fg, 33% from 3...69% from the free throw...

I like how a few of you said he's on an upswing with his 3pt%... thats actually true he's shooting 46% the last 10 games! Hooray! But the last 10 games he's scoring 33% from the field and 63% from the free throw line....

He's giving us 4pts 2 assists and 1 rebound in 17 minutes the last 10 games. Even if you double his minutes to 34, he's only giving you 8pts, 4 assists and 2 rebounds... his defense is horrible too. Averaging .5 steals in his 17 minutes... while opposing point guards are torching him.

He's a guy that just doesn't belong in the NBA right now. Again his career is just starting, but it's not fair to other players to keep playing this kid when he doesn't deserve to play

I 100% do not understand this sentiment. Why not? Do you think getting experience is NOT a good thing? Even if he is not performing up to YOUR expectations?

Should we only draft and play guys that are 100% ready?

Frank is coming off the bench and getting minutes and experience, sometimes it works, sometimes it does not. This is how player development can be done. Players with potential should be given minutes to get used to the speed, physicality, and competition.

Good Post. We all knew Frank was raw. That doesnt mean he doesnt belong in the nba. i think some want instant gratifcation out of the draft. It may take Frank a year to really get comfortable BUT it may be worth the wait. Its not like the Knicks were ready to win now anyway. I like what ive seen from frank. Hopefully after the ASB Jeff stops jerking the kid around and let him and Mudiay pay together for the bul of the minutes

Heck, it may take Frank 2-3 years to even be an average player, and I'd still give him minutes as long as his game kept getting better.

This is what drafting a 18/19 year old is like. If you see and like the potential and the player is working hard (and even if on court performance sucks), you still give him time and minutes.

If you guys condone playing guys that don't deserve to play because you want to develop them, then you have truly lost your kool aid loving minds. This is the top level of basketball. This is not where guys learn how to play. Frank has to learn how to play. I been posting stats like crazy but anyhow that's still not enough. You guys just want to play the kid hoping he learns how to play. So we're supposed to force Frank to play for 2-3 years when he doesn't deserve to? I mean what are you even saying? No player in the NBA deserves that treatment. That's just as bad as signing JR Smith's brother.

I'm not saying trade Frank. He's 19... you don't give up on the kid.... but we don't reward a guy even he doesn't deserve to be out there. Mudiay and Burke earned their time. Frank shouldn't be playing over them, especially even he's playing 20 minutes and only getting 2 rebounds in games. Tats not fair to guys that are contributing

mudiay and frank have looked good together when given the time. You act like he has sucked every game which is not true. He has been up ans down which was expected for such a young kid who was raw. Nobody is saying to just give him everything BUT it makes perfect sense to at least let him play through some mistakes.

I don't think it should even be a question here, he will play a lot and will have some good games and some stinkers. My thing with him is, we already see his floor as a player. He can make open threes and defend at a high level. He's not going to be a bust. His downside is low-usage role player. The issue is missing on Mitchell, as did plenty of other teams. But there have been guys in front of him like Isaac, Jackson, and obviously Fultz, who appear bigger risks. Jackson is starting to put up numbers, but he is already 21 years old and doesn't have an NBA skill on either side of the ball yet. Frank has an improving jumper, and has good defensive intangibles already. People just need to be patient, which appears to be almost impossible here. I am fine with what he's doing. One out of every 4 games maybe, we see major flashes.

Why do we have to bring other factors and players into It? Frank is our guy... I'm not concerned with what other players are doing... draft position or who we should of drafted. I'm only concerned with Frank. You guys are really on some p.t.s.d. ****.... we can't say a player sucks even they do because we "never developed a player"... like were gonna ignore Kristaps... we developed Nate, David Lee, Wilson Chandler, Charlie ****ing ward. Come on now. Are we that tormented as a fan base? Frank ****ing sucks. I can't even mention good examples because you guys are so scary. Yes we have Kris Dunn whip sucked in Minnesota, but is showing actually game in chicago... you think Minnesota cares about what Dunn is doing? They moved on. You can look at Kenny Anderson's rookie year. He was terrible, looking like a bust. The following year he got busy. Frank could be that guy next year.... but right now he doesn't deserve to play. Frank himself has to pout in his own work to get better

He plays like he’s 36 years old. No explosion, no first step, no toughness, no vertical leap, no killer instinct. Wasted the pick on a future 8th guy on the roster.

EnySpree wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Sorry to sound like a broken record. I really hope Frank skips Intl. Play and educates himself in playground basketball right here. Rucker, Drew, whatever gets Frank to put equal emphasis on offense.

Willy misjudged mgmt, and ended up in worse situation. Dont want to see the same thing to happen to Frank.

Frank is already in a bad situation.... Knicks have Mudiay, Burke and Jack ahead of him. Baker sucks too but he's actually the one bringing the pain on defense. If we settle into the idea that Frank isn't a point guard, Dotson is right there. Dotson is gonna be a good player no doubt. All of this is a good thing. Frank doesn't deserve to play if he isn't out playing most of the guys mentioned. That's just the way it should be.

That's a nice statement and all but far from reality or what is going to happen. Or, in fact, what is happening.

So it's kinda of wasted breathe, no?

MS wrote:Frank is terrible.

He plays like he’s 36 years old. No explosion, no first step, no toughness, no vertical leap, no killer instinct. Wasted the pick on a future 8th guy on the roster.