bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:"Focal Point" sure thing!

Which makes this statement wrong - "but this season is all about transitioning to KP as the focal point."

KP is the best player on this team and it's not even close.

That's beside the point you made that I responded to. More relevant to what we all want to occur is Melo will make Porzingis better, as Tues. so clearly demonstrated.

As to who's better, Porzingis has the potential to be better.

But his shot has to start falling at a higher rate than at least a slumping Melo (which it isn't at the moment) to make that declaration.

But again, much more relevant is they're both on the Knicks and very good for one another and if there are arguments to be made throughout the year which is better, that's a very good thing.

I, unlike others, hope it's a close, arguable race so long as they play with one another.

Worrying about who is better is a pursuit better left to bitter, fixated critics who are more concerned with their personal fetishes than than positive team things occurring.

Melo doesn't impact the game in all facets like KP does. Melo cannot seemingly guard 1 through 5 like KP does already.

Moot point.

dk7th wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Id take Porzingis over Russell now even though I still believe Russell will be something special in time. Part of the problem IMO is Kobe's farewell tour, and the intimidation factor. The other problem is Byron Scott. He was fired from his last gig because he wasnt an X and Os guy, rarely drew up plays. Thats not who you want developing a possible franchise PG. Im guessing that Scott was hired for Kobe more than anything. Once Kobe is out of the picture, Im guessing that Scott will be too unless Russell makes a big jump this season.

Once Russell is given the keys to the offense and it becomes his team I believe we will see a different player.

Genuine question, what is Russell's standout skill?

Even when he couldn't shoot the ball into a sinkhole, you could see Rubio's court vision/passing.

Same with Wall, you could immediately see his speed/quickness.

Curry could always shoot.

What skill immediately stands out when you see Russell on the court?

You don't believe Russell has great court vision? Saw enough in college to believe he has. Russell has a very good handle and can hit a 3. Granted, I havent seen that much of him as a Laker, but I do believe he has the skills to be one of the best PGs in the league eventually.

The question was 'on the NBA level' on purpose.

Players standout skills don't go away because of the team they are on. Porzingis hasn't shot well but you could at least see the form.

Is Russell exhibiting the kind of passing and court vision which was his calling card in OSU?

Even if he was turning the ball over or making deft passes to brick shooters the skills would be evident (ala Rubio).

Who's seen that in him?

I haven't.

the game needs to slow down for him. passes that work in college may not work in the nba because of the bigger, longer players. i think that this would be obvious. he may have the skills but he may need to recalibrate them. that said, he was outplayed by mcconnell in the tourney and mcconnell seems to be putting up better numbers in the nba too. mcconnel was a second round pick in the 50s if memeory serves.

McConnell is putting us VASTLY better passing numbers on an inferior team.

I'm not expecting Russell to be Stockton out of the gate, but rebounders rebound and passers pass right out of the gate to some noticeable agree.

As I say, even Grant is showing by the eye and by stats a higher degree of vision and passing.

bigbasketballs wrote:

dk7th wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Id take Porzingis over Russell now even though I still believe Russell will be something special in time. Part of the problem IMO is Kobe's farewell tour, and the intimidation factor. The other problem is Byron Scott. He was fired from his last gig because he wasnt an X and Os guy, rarely drew up plays. Thats not who you want developing a possible franchise PG. Im guessing that Scott was hired for Kobe more than anything. Once Kobe is out of the picture, Im guessing that Scott will be too unless Russell makes a big jump this season.

Once Russell is given the keys to the offense and it becomes his team I believe we will see a different player.

Genuine question, what is Russell's standout skill?

Even when he couldn't shoot the ball into a sinkhole, you could see Rubio's court vision/passing.

Same with Wall, you could immediately see his speed/quickness.

Curry could always shoot.

What skill immediately stands out when you see Russell on the court?

You don't believe Russell has great court vision? Saw enough in college to believe he has. Russell has a very good handle and can hit a 3. Granted, I havent seen that much of him as a Laker, but I do believe he has the skills to be one of the best PGs in the league eventually.

The question was 'on the NBA level' on purpose.

Players standout skills don't go away because of the team they are on. Porzingis hasn't shot well but you could at least see the form.

Is Russell exhibiting the kind of passing and court vision which was his calling card in OSU?

Even if he was turning the ball over or making deft passes to brick shooters the skills would be evident (ala Rubio).

Who's seen that in him?

I haven't.

the game needs to slow down for him. passes that work in college may not work in the nba because of the bigger, longer players. i think that this would be obvious. he may have the skills but he may need to recalibrate them. that said, he was outplayed by mcconnell in the tourney and mcconnell seems to be putting up better numbers in the nba too. mcconnel was a second round pick in the 50s if memeory serves.

McConnell is putting us VASTLY better passing numbers on an inferior team.

I'm not expecting Russell to be Stockton out of the gate, but rebounders rebound and passers pass right out of the gate to some noticeable agree.

As I say, even Grant is showing by the eye and by stats a higher degree of vision and passing.

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:"Focal Point" sure thing!

Which makes this statement wrong - "but this season is all about transitioning to KP as the focal point."

KP is the best player on this team and it's not even close.

That's beside the point you made that I responded to. More relevant to what we all want to occur is Melo will make Porzingis better, as Tues. so clearly demonstrated.

As to who's better, Porzingis has the potential to be better.

But his shot has to start falling at a higher rate than at least a slumping Melo (which it isn't at the moment) to make that declaration.

But again, much more relevant is they're both on the Knicks and very good for one another and if there are arguments to be made throughout the year which is better, that's a very good thing.

I, unlike others, hope it's a close, arguable race so long as they play with one another.

Worrying about who is better is a pursuit better left to bitter, fixated critics who are more concerned with their personal fetishes than than positive team things occurring.

Melo doesn't impact the game in all facets like KP does. Melo cannot seemingly guard 1 through 5 like KP does already.

Moot point.

You mean "no point".

They're BOTH on the Knicks, compliment one another very well, and the Knicks are better having both of them. Melo's presence and skill set makes KP better which makes the Knicks better.

What is the relevance of the question other than your personal axe to grind?

Bottom line is Knicks winning, and the formula for that is Melo playing 2nd fiddle and doing the other things like defending and distributing. Letting Afflalo hit some buckets, letting Kristaps get the shine. Stop getting butt hurt if your hero isn't the head tamale anymore.

ChuckBuck wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:"Focal Point" sure thing!

Which makes this statement wrong - "but this season is all about transitioning to KP as the focal point."

KP is the best player on this team and it's not even close.

That's beside the point you made that I responded to. More relevant to what we all want to occur is Melo will make Porzingis better, as Tues. so clearly demonstrated.

As to who's better, Porzingis has the potential to be better.

But his shot has to start falling at a higher rate than at least a slumping Melo (which it isn't at the moment) to make that declaration.

But again, much more relevant is they're both on the Knicks and very good for one another and if there are arguments to be made throughout the year which is better, that's a very good thing.

I, unlike others, hope it's a close, arguable race so long as they play with one another.

Worrying about who is better is a pursuit better left to bitter, fixated critics who are more concerned with their personal fetishes than than positive team things occurring.

Melo doesn't impact the game in all facets like KP does. Melo cannot seemingly guard 1 through 5 like KP does already.

Moot point.

You mean "no point".

They're BOTH on the Knicks, compliment one another very well, and the Knicks are better having both of them. Melo's presence and skill set makes KP better which makes the Knicks better.

What is the relevance of the question other than your personal axe to grind?

Bottom line is Knicks winning, and the formula for that is Melo playing 2nd fiddle and doing the other things like defending and distributing. Letting Afflalo hit some buckets, letting Kristaps get the shine. Stop getting butt hurt if your hero isn't the head tamale anymore.

ChuckBuck, so why does your post need to deteriorate to this? butt hurt? WTF is that anyway? I'd like it to stop.

You want to make any argument, do so. You want to name call, please do it elsewhere.

ChuckBuck wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:"Focal Point" sure thing!

Which makes this statement wrong - "but this season is all about transitioning to KP as the focal point."

KP is the best player on this team and it's not even close.

That's beside the point you made that I responded to. More relevant to what we all want to occur is Melo will make Porzingis better, as Tues. so clearly demonstrated.

As to who's better, Porzingis has the potential to be better.

But his shot has to start falling at a higher rate than at least a slumping Melo (which it isn't at the moment) to make that declaration.

But again, much more relevant is they're both on the Knicks and very good for one another and if there are arguments to be made throughout the year which is better, that's a very good thing.

I, unlike others, hope it's a close, arguable race so long as they play with one another.

Worrying about who is better is a pursuit better left to bitter, fixated critics who are more concerned with their personal fetishes than than positive team things occurring.

Melo doesn't impact the game in all facets like KP does. Melo cannot seemingly guard 1 through 5 like KP does already.

Moot point.

You mean "no point".

They're BOTH on the Knicks, compliment one another very well, and the Knicks are better having both of them. Melo's presence and skill set makes KP better which makes the Knicks better.

What is the relevance of the question other than your personal axe to grind?

Bottom line is Knicks winning, and the formula for that is Melo playing 2nd fiddle and doing the other things like defending and distributing. Letting Afflalo hit some buckets, letting Kristaps get the shine. Stop getting butt hurt if your hero isn't the head tamale anymore.

I'm no Melo-head. He's a very good, flawed player.

What's happening here is you don't understand what a first fiddle is. Porzingis could be the Knicks leading scorer (yes please!) and Melo will still and should be first fiddle right now. Scoring AND dishing is the very definition of a first fiddle. If he manages to make Porzingis the leading scorer (yes please!) then he'll be a great first fiddle.

I'll be absolutely ecstatic the day Porzingis is the best player on the Knicks, be it December 2015 or December 2017. Cool either way. I'll be even more ecstatic they day Melo is the 3rd or 4th best player on the Knicks.

But your agenda is perfectly clear.

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:"Focal Point" sure thing!

Which makes this statement wrong - "but this season is all about transitioning to KP as the focal point."

KP is the best player on this team and it's not even close.

That's beside the point you made that I responded to. More relevant to what we all want to occur is Melo will make Porzingis better, as Tues. so clearly demonstrated.

As to who's better, Porzingis has the potential to be better.

But his shot has to start falling at a higher rate than at least a slumping Melo (which it isn't at the moment) to make that declaration.

But again, much more relevant is they're both on the Knicks and very good for one another and if there are arguments to be made throughout the year which is better, that's a very good thing.

I, unlike others, hope it's a close, arguable race so long as they play with one another.

Worrying about who is better is a pursuit better left to bitter, fixated critics who are more concerned with their personal fetishes than than positive team things occurring.

Melo doesn't impact the game in all facets like KP does. Melo cannot seemingly guard 1 through 5 like KP does already.

Moot point.

You mean "no point".

They're BOTH on the Knicks, compliment one another very well, and the Knicks are better having both of them. Melo's presence and skill set makes KP better which makes the Knicks better.

What is the relevance of the question other than your personal axe to grind?

Bottom line is Knicks winning, and the formula for that is Melo playing 2nd fiddle and doing the other things like defending and distributing. Letting Afflalo hit some buckets, letting Kristaps get the shine. Stop getting butt hurt if your hero isn't the head tamale anymore.

I'm no Melo-head. He's a very good, flawed player.

What's happening here is you don't understand what a first fiddle is. Porzingis could be the Knicks leading scorer (yes please!) and Melo will still and should be first fiddle right now. Scoring AND dishing is the very definition of a first fiddle. If he manages to make Porzingis the leading scorer (yes please!) then he'll be a great first fiddle.

I'll be absolutely ecstatic the day Porzingis is the best player on the Knicks, be it December 2015 or December 2017. Cool either way. I'll be even more ecstatic they day Melo is the 3rd or 4th best player on the Knicks.

But your agenda is perfectly clear.

If KP is leading the team in scoring (which I could care less if he does) and Melo is assisting him on many of those baskets then Melo would still be first fiddle.

Why the hell do we need a first and second fiddle anyway? Whats wrong with Shaq and Kobe? Shaq dominates efficiently and Kobe chucks inefficiently (and plays some defense)

Kidding aside, this is really silly. If we are winning and its because of both of them then we all win.

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Yes, my agenda is clear. I love the Knicks and I love Team Basketball. The one where the team gets like 20+ assists because of ball movement and player movement. To me (and most logical fans) that's winning basketball, and has been since the dawn of time.

Knicks are averaging 19.9 a game. You're getting what you want.

Guess who is leading the team in assists?

If what you say is genuine, then I'd imagine you'd advocate having the guy with the 13.3% assist rate be the focal point of the offense as opposed to the guy with the 3.8$% rate, yes?

Or do I misunderstand what your real priorities are?

Product of the system, Fisher is getting through to Melo to take a step back from his former alpha role, and distribute and play D and defer to KP. I see him buying in more than he did with Woody, but that 4th quarter ISO Melo crap still has to go.

ChuckBuck wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Yes, my agenda is clear. I love the Knicks and I love Team Basketball. The one where the team gets like 20+ assists because of ball movement and player movement. To me (and most logical fans) that's winning basketball, and has been since the dawn of time.

Knicks are averaging 19.9 a game. You're getting what you want.

Guess who is leading the team in assists?

If what you say is genuine, then I'd imagine you'd advocate having the guy with the 13.3% assist rate be the focal point of the offense as opposed to the guy with the 3.8$% rate, yes?

Or do I misunderstand what your real priorities are?

Product of the system, Fisher is getting through to Melo to take a step back from his former alpha role, and distribute and play D and defer to KP. I see him buying in more than he did with Woody, but that 4th quarter ISO Melo crap still has to go.

Have to admit that at the end of the Charlotte game when everyone was missing, I would have had no trouble with getting the ball to Anthony about 10/15 feet from the hoop and letting him operate.

The moment was right for a judicious ISO beginning closer to the basket, IMO.

mreinman wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Yes, my agenda is clear. I love the Knicks and I love Team Basketball. The one where the team gets like 20+ assists because of ball movement and player movement. To me (and most logical fans) that's winning basketball, and has been since the dawn of time.

Knicks are averaging 19.9 a game. You're getting what you want.

Guess who is leading the team in assists?

If what you say is genuine, then I'd imagine you'd advocate having the guy with the 13.3% assist rate be the focal point of the offense as opposed to the guy with the 3.8% rate, yes?

Or do I misunderstand what your real priorities are?

22nd in the league. Thats not that good.

Talk to chuck, he said 20, not me.

mreinman wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

mreinman wrote:

bigbasketballs wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:Yes, my agenda is clear. I love the Knicks and I love Team Basketball. The one where the team gets like 20+ assists because of ball movement and player movement. To me (and most logical fans) that's winning basketball, and has been since the dawn of time.

Knicks are averaging 19.9 a game. You're getting what you want.

Guess who is leading the team in assists?

If what you say is genuine, then I'd imagine you'd advocate having the guy with the 13.3% assist rate be the focal point of the offense as opposed to the guy with the 3.8% rate, yes?

Or do I misunderstand what your real priorities are?

22nd in the league. Thats not that good.

Talk to chuck, he said 20, not me.

he forgot to adjust to the new (and improved) nba pace.

Knicks are shooting .419 from the field.

Now you could argue that's a product of the system, but they did shoot .428 last year in the same system.

We KNOW Melo is in a shooting slump. We know KP will likely improve. Afflalo will likely help. Calderon is already getting better.

You're likely going to be see some positive moment, which will raise the assist rate, marginally.

They won't be GS or SA, but will likely move to middle of the pack with even marginal progression.