dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:during the broadcast fisher laid out the plan in no uncertain terms: "our short term goal this season is about a process of becoming good. and we'll see however far that takes us, but we have to build a foundation for success." so please lets cut the crap about playoffs or bust and win now. as i have maintained, the narrative arc for this team is two seasons. if you don't like the plan then don't follow the team. that said, i think the tipping point and the tension will be around how much triangle is utilized based on who can participate in it and who cannot, and how the rotation and minutes get farmed out from there. it will be fisher's biggest overarching goal, since wins and losses are not the issue this season.

calderon looks better but will continue to hurt the team on defense. porzingis's 3rd foul was b/c of jose getting beat by his man or not covering the passing lanes. he doesn't stop or disrupt anything. that said, if calderon can change his mindset to be more of a shooter-- something that wally alluded to-- it will be better for the triangle.

i like afflalo's midrange game. it suits the triangle... too bad he can't remain healthy-- that hurts the cause.

early is starting to look a bit more like an nba player, but still lacks fundamentals, like boxing out and three-quartering his man. he was atrocious at boxing out. there was a stretch of 2 minutes between the seven and five-minute mark where his defensive ineptitude allowed the celtics to build a lead, whereupon fisher had to call a timeout. i know many are pulling for him but i find it hard to root for a negative-sum player.

kp he really has some pretty moves 8-14 feet from the basket, but from 15-20 feet not so much. that's the dreaded "long two" territory. good court vision. they seem to run the triangle a bit more when he is on the floor. his length is going to bother a lot of frontcourt players in the nba.

williams continues to look good in an unstructured offense. he had a couple of pretty assists. he also looked a bit winded at times.

melo here's the ongoing issue with melo: he's mentally soft and when someone gets his dander up, like crowder did-- he takes too many contested shots. there are more than several crowders in the nba. how about running the triangle? what about hitting the open man? taking open shots? is it connected to kp not being out there with early foul trouble? fisher has got to intervene if this continues or the team will underachieve or be held back....

seraphin don't like his game or his lack of conditioning. he may yet be part of the rotation by default as the center behind lopez. not a fan.

the storyline for the season may be kp's foul trouble issues and how that reduces the amount of possessions where a triangle is run. tonight the knicks ran the triangle maybe 30% of the time, maximum. i also don't like the lack of fouls being drawn.

this is what i don't like about wally as a commentator: he does not tell the truth often enough. he loves how the triangle creates open shots and creates the two-man game. he loves how calderon is doing it all, playing great defense. no, wally.

What do you mean wins and losses isn't an issue this season?..Are u out of your mind?..Firstly, you have a roster with Melo, Calderon, RoLo, Affalo, Shasa, Seraphin, DWill, O'Quinn and Admundson..Well seasomed vets, exactly why doesn't wins matter??..Kerr won a title in his first year and played against Blatt who was also in his first year..Fisher now needs a few years to figure things out??..Secondly, Phil assembled this team with the intention of them playing well enough for a prospective big name free agent can fell he may be the final piece..Please stop the crazy talk..Under 28 wins, Fisher needs a new gig, under 25, Phil needs to join him...

I have never seem or heard a team stacked with vet players aren't trying to win because they are trying to get a feel for the system or coach is trying to figure out system and the rotation...

fisher made the statement, not me. i happen to agree with his statement, you don't. you think his statement is crazy, i think it is eminently reasonable. you don't like it then don't follow the team.

Wins and losses are always the issue unless you are the Sixers and that can't go on forever. Development and winning aren't mutually exclusive. Have to hope that both occur. KP's foul Woes will not be the story f the season though. Too many good things have been happening with the rest of the team.

i said kp's foul trouble *may* be the issue this season. the less he is on the floor the less triangle offense i see. if the aim is to build a foundation and something lasting, then it behooves fisher to develop his players to be able to run the offense more than 25-30% of the time. i am not saying it has to be all the time, but the essence of the offense is to become fluid and keep the defense guessing. when it is poorly run then it becomes robotic and predictable. right now it looks poorly run most of the time but the hope is that fisher tries to find a balance that does not kow-tow to weaknesses that *read* as strengths, which is the fool's gold approach that hacks like woodson champion, and career underachievers like melo thrive in at the expense of developing a true contender. by the way, iso melo is way way way more predictable than the triangle.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:during the broadcast fisher laid out the plan in no uncertain terms: "our short term goal this season is about a process of becoming good. and we'll see however far that takes us, but we have to build a foundation for success." so please lets cut the crap about playoffs or bust and win now. as i have maintained, the narrative arc for this team is two seasons. if you don't like the plan then don't follow the team. that said, i think the tipping point and the tension will be around how much triangle is utilized based on who can participate in it and who cannot, and how the rotation and minutes get farmed out from there. it will be fisher's biggest overarching goal, since wins and losses are not the issue this season.

calderon looks better but will continue to hurt the team on defense. porzingis's 3rd foul was b/c of jose getting beat by his man or not covering the passing lanes. he doesn't stop or disrupt anything. that said, if calderon can change his mindset to be more of a shooter-- something that wally alluded to-- it will be better for the triangle.

i like afflalo's midrange game. it suits the triangle... too bad he can't remain healthy-- that hurts the cause.

early is starting to look a bit more like an nba player, but still lacks fundamentals, like boxing out and three-quartering his man. he was atrocious at boxing out. there was a stretch of 2 minutes between the seven and five-minute mark where his defensive ineptitude allowed the celtics to build a lead, whereupon fisher had to call a timeout. i know many are pulling for him but i find it hard to root for a negative-sum player.

kp he really has some pretty moves 8-14 feet from the basket, but from 15-20 feet not so much. that's the dreaded "long two" territory. good court vision. they seem to run the triangle a bit more when he is on the floor. his length is going to bother a lot of frontcourt players in the nba.

williams continues to look good in an unstructured offense. he had a couple of pretty assists. he also looked a bit winded at times.

melo here's the ongoing issue with melo: he's mentally soft and when someone gets his dander up, like crowder did-- he takes too many contested shots. there are more than several crowders in the nba. how about running the triangle? what about hitting the open man? taking open shots? is it connected to kp not being out there with early foul trouble? fisher has got to intervene if this continues or the team will underachieve or be held back....

seraphin don't like his game or his lack of conditioning. he may yet be part of the rotation by default as the center behind lopez. not a fan.

the storyline for the season may be kp's foul trouble issues and how that reduces the amount of possessions where a triangle is run. tonight the knicks ran the triangle maybe 30% of the time, maximum. i also don't like the lack of fouls being drawn.

this is what i don't like about wally as a commentator: he does not tell the truth often enough. he loves how the triangle creates open shots and creates the two-man game. he loves how calderon is doing it all, playing great defense. no, wally.

What do you mean wins and losses isn't an issue this season?..Are u out of your mind?..Firstly, you have a roster with Melo, Calderon, RoLo, Affalo, Shasa, Seraphin, DWill, O'Quinn and Admundson..Well seasomed vets, exactly why doesn't wins matter??..Kerr won a title in his first year and played against Blatt who was also in his first year..Fisher now needs a few years to figure things out??..Secondly, Phil assembled this team with the intention of them playing well enough for a prospective big name free agent can fell he may be the final piece..Please stop the crazy talk..Under 28 wins, Fisher needs a new gig, under 25, Phil needs to join him...

I have never seem or heard a team stacked with vet players aren't trying to win because they are trying to get a feel for the system or coach is trying to figure out system and the rotation...

fisher made the statement, not me. i happen to agree with his statement, you don't. you think his statement is crazy, i think it is eminently reasonable. you don't like it then don't follow the team.

Wins and losses are always the issue unless you are the Sixers and that can't go on forever. Development and winning aren't mutually exclusive. Have to hope that both occur. KP's foul Woes will not be the story f the season though. Too many good things have been happening with the rest of the team.

i said kp's foul trouble *may* be the issue this season. the less he is on the floor the less triangle offense i see. if the aim is to build a foundation and something lasting, then it behooves fisher to develop his players to be able to run the offense more than 25-30% of the time. i am not saying it has to be all the time, but the essence of the offense is to become fluid and keep the defense guessing. when it is poorly run then it becomes robotic and predictable. right now it looks poorly run most of the time but the hope is that fisher tries to find a balance that does not kow-tow to weaknesses that *read* as strengths, which is the fool's gold approach that hacks like woodson champion, and career underachievers like melo thrive in at the expense of developing a true contender. by the way, iso melo is way way way more predictable than the triangle.

I have to disagree about Woodson. He wasn't brought into develop his players he was brought into win. Also, remember that he had an interim title when he went 18-5 to finish his first season. His second season the team was filled out with aging high character vets. The team was built to win now not rebuild and develop young players. Fisher and PJax were given a unique opportunity that hasn't been given to the previous guys running the Knicks. They were allowed to lose, rebuild, and trade off big name low character guys. They also had cap space and draft picks. Neither of those two things have been available since the Amare signing. There was no way Woodson would have kept his job if he didn't win more than he lost.

it was never woodson's team to coach. he hadn't earned the right but he took the opportunity anyway even though he knew what he was getting into. i don't consider that a high character decision on his part, so he simply exacerbated the problem. i have already debunked, utterly the vaunted 18-6. the 54 win season remains an empty calorie accomplishment, kind of like those participation trophies kids get nowadays.

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:during the broadcast fisher laid out the plan in no uncertain terms: "our short term goal this season is about a process of becoming good. and we'll see however far that takes us, but we have to build a foundation for success." so please lets cut the crap about playoffs or bust and win now. as i have maintained, the narrative arc for this team is two seasons. if you don't like the plan then don't follow the team. that said, i think the tipping point and the tension will be around how much triangle is utilized based on who can participate in it and who cannot, and how the rotation and minutes get farmed out from there. it will be fisher's biggest overarching goal, since wins and losses are not the issue this season.

calderon looks better but will continue to hurt the team on defense. porzingis's 3rd foul was b/c of jose getting beat by his man or not covering the passing lanes. he doesn't stop or disrupt anything. that said, if calderon can change his mindset to be more of a shooter-- something that wally alluded to-- it will be better for the triangle.

i like afflalo's midrange game. it suits the triangle... too bad he can't remain healthy-- that hurts the cause.

early is starting to look a bit more like an nba player, but still lacks fundamentals, like boxing out and three-quartering his man. he was atrocious at boxing out. there was a stretch of 2 minutes between the seven and five-minute mark where his defensive ineptitude allowed the celtics to build a lead, whereupon fisher had to call a timeout. i know many are pulling for him but i find it hard to root for a negative-sum player.

kp he really has some pretty moves 8-14 feet from the basket, but from 15-20 feet not so much. that's the dreaded "long two" territory. good court vision. they seem to run the triangle a bit more when he is on the floor. his length is going to bother a lot of frontcourt players in the nba.

williams continues to look good in an unstructured offense. he had a couple of pretty assists. he also looked a bit winded at times.

melo here's the ongoing issue with melo: he's mentally soft and when someone gets his dander up, like crowder did-- he takes too many contested shots. there are more than several crowders in the nba. how about running the triangle? what about hitting the open man? taking open shots? is it connected to kp not being out there with early foul trouble? fisher has got to intervene if this continues or the team will underachieve or be held back....

seraphin don't like his game or his lack of conditioning. he may yet be part of the rotation by default as the center behind lopez. not a fan.

the storyline for the season may be kp's foul trouble issues and how that reduces the amount of possessions where a triangle is run. tonight the knicks ran the triangle maybe 30% of the time, maximum. i also don't like the lack of fouls being drawn.

this is what i don't like about wally as a commentator: he does not tell the truth often enough. he loves how the triangle creates open shots and creates the two-man game. he loves how calderon is doing it all, playing great defense. no, wally.

What do you mean wins and losses isn't an issue this season?..Are u out of your mind?..Firstly, you have a roster with Melo, Calderon, RoLo, Affalo, Shasa, Seraphin, DWill, O'Quinn and Admundson..Well seasomed vets, exactly why doesn't wins matter??..Kerr won a title in his first year and played against Blatt who was also in his first year..Fisher now needs a few years to figure things out??..Secondly, Phil assembled this team with the intention of them playing well enough for a prospective big name free agent can fell he may be the final piece..Please stop the crazy talk..Under 28 wins, Fisher needs a new gig, under 25, Phil needs to join him...

I have never seem or heard a team stacked with vet players aren't trying to win because they are trying to get a feel for the system or coach is trying to figure out system and the rotation...

fisher made the statement, not me. i happen to agree with his statement, you don't. you think his statement is crazy, i think it is eminently reasonable. you don't like it then don't follow the team.

Wins and losses are always the issue unless you are the Sixers and that can't go on forever. Development and winning aren't mutually exclusive. Have to hope that both occur. KP's foul Woes will not be the story f the season though. Too many good things have been happening with the rest of the team.

i said kp's foul trouble *may* be the issue this season. the less he is on the floor the less triangle offense i see. if the aim is to build a foundation and something lasting, then it behooves fisher to develop his players to be able to run the offense more than 25-30% of the time. i am not saying it has to be all the time, but the essence of the offense is to become fluid and keep the defense guessing. when it is poorly run then it becomes robotic and predictable. right now it looks poorly run most of the time but the hope is that fisher tries to find a balance that does not kow-tow to weaknesses that *read* as strengths, which is the fool's gold approach that hacks like woodson champion, and career underachievers like melo thrive in at the expense of developing a true contender. by the way, iso melo is way way way more predictable than the triangle.

I have to disagree about Woodson. He wasn't brought into develop his players he was brought into win. Also, remember that he had an interim title when he went 18-5 to finish his first season. His second season the team was filled out with aging high character vets. The team was built to win now not rebuild and develop young players. Fisher and PJax were given a unique opportunity that hasn't been given to the previous guys running the Knicks. They were allowed to lose, rebuild, and trade off big name low character guys. They also had cap space and draft picks. Neither of those two things have been available since the Amare signing. There was no way Woodson would have kept his job if he didn't win more than he lost.

it was never woodson's team to coach. he hadn't earned the right but he took the opportunity anyway even though he knew what he was getting into. i don't consider that a high character decision on his part, so he simply exacerbated the problem. i have already debunked, utterly the vaunted 18-6. the 54 win season remains an empty calorie accomplishment, kind of like those participation trophies kids get nowadays.

What problem did Woodson exacerbate? He won with a roster put together with the intention of competing. Also, what did you debunk? Winning 54 games in an nba season is a huge accomplishment. When was the last time a Knick team did that?

he agreed to coach for a franchise that was dysfunctional and did nothing to try and change things once kidd and company were gone. he was simply a company man, an indiana crony-- cronyism is a contributing factor, a bit incestuous even. not really competent as his playoff record has shown. also, at some point he changed agents to accommodate dolan, which was also a roll over and rub my belly move. woodson is not a high character guy and he will not be a head coach again in the nba.

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:during the broadcast fisher laid out the plan in no uncertain terms: "our short term goal this season is about a process of becoming good. and we'll see however far that takes us, but we have to build a foundation for success." so please lets cut the crap about playoffs or bust and win now. as i have maintained, the narrative arc for this team is two seasons. if you don't like the plan then don't follow the team. that said, i think the tipping point and the tension will be around how much triangle is utilized based on who can participate in it and who cannot, and how the rotation and minutes get farmed out from there. it will be fisher's biggest overarching goal, since wins and losses are not the issue this season.

calderon looks better but will continue to hurt the team on defense. porzingis's 3rd foul was b/c of jose getting beat by his man or not covering the passing lanes. he doesn't stop or disrupt anything. that said, if calderon can change his mindset to be more of a shooter-- something that wally alluded to-- it will be better for the triangle.

i like afflalo's midrange game. it suits the triangle... too bad he can't remain healthy-- that hurts the cause.

early is starting to look a bit more like an nba player, but still lacks fundamentals, like boxing out and three-quartering his man. he was atrocious at boxing out. there was a stretch of 2 minutes between the seven and five-minute mark where his defensive ineptitude allowed the celtics to build a lead, whereupon fisher had to call a timeout. i know many are pulling for him but i find it hard to root for a negative-sum player.

kp he really has some pretty moves 8-14 feet from the basket, but from 15-20 feet not so much. that's the dreaded "long two" territory. good court vision. they seem to run the triangle a bit more when he is on the floor. his length is going to bother a lot of frontcourt players in the nba.

williams continues to look good in an unstructured offense. he had a couple of pretty assists. he also looked a bit winded at times.

melo here's the ongoing issue with melo: he's mentally soft and when someone gets his dander up, like crowder did-- he takes too many contested shots. there are more than several crowders in the nba. how about running the triangle? what about hitting the open man? taking open shots? is it connected to kp not being out there with early foul trouble? fisher has got to intervene if this continues or the team will underachieve or be held back....

seraphin don't like his game or his lack of conditioning. he may yet be part of the rotation by default as the center behind lopez. not a fan.

the storyline for the season may be kp's foul trouble issues and how that reduces the amount of possessions where a triangle is run. tonight the knicks ran the triangle maybe 30% of the time, maximum. i also don't like the lack of fouls being drawn.

this is what i don't like about wally as a commentator: he does not tell the truth often enough. he loves how the triangle creates open shots and creates the two-man game. he loves how calderon is doing it all, playing great defense. no, wally.

What do you mean wins and losses isn't an issue this season?..Are u out of your mind?..Firstly, you have a roster with Melo, Calderon, RoLo, Affalo, Shasa, Seraphin, DWill, O'Quinn and Admundson..Well seasomed vets, exactly why doesn't wins matter??..Kerr won a title in his first year and played against Blatt who was also in his first year..Fisher now needs a few years to figure things out??..Secondly, Phil assembled this team with the intention of them playing well enough for a prospective big name free agent can fell he may be the final piece..Please stop the crazy talk..Under 28 wins, Fisher needs a new gig, under 25, Phil needs to join him...

I have never seem or heard a team stacked with vet players aren't trying to win because they are trying to get a feel for the system or coach is trying to figure out system and the rotation...

fisher made the statement, not me. i happen to agree with his statement, you don't. you think his statement is crazy, i think it is eminently reasonable. you don't like it then don't follow the team.

Wins and losses are always the issue unless you are the Sixers and that can't go on forever. Development and winning aren't mutually exclusive. Have to hope that both occur. KP's foul Woes will not be the story f the season though. Too many good things have been happening with the rest of the team.

i said kp's foul trouble *may* be the issue this season. the less he is on the floor the less triangle offense i see. if the aim is to build a foundation and something lasting, then it behooves fisher to develop his players to be able to run the offense more than 25-30% of the time. i am not saying it has to be all the time, but the essence of the offense is to become fluid and keep the defense guessing. when it is poorly run then it becomes robotic and predictable. right now it looks poorly run most of the time but the hope is that fisher tries to find a balance that does not kow-tow to weaknesses that *read* as strengths, which is the fool's gold approach that hacks like woodson champion, and career underachievers like melo thrive in at the expense of developing a true contender. by the way, iso melo is way way way more predictable than the triangle.

I have to disagree about Woodson. He wasn't brought into develop his players he was brought into win. Also, remember that he had an interim title when he went 18-5 to finish his first season. His second season the team was filled out with aging high character vets. The team was built to win now not rebuild and develop young players. Fisher and PJax were given a unique opportunity that hasn't been given to the previous guys running the Knicks. They were allowed to lose, rebuild, and trade off big name low character guys. They also had cap space and draft picks. Neither of those two things have been available since the Amare signing. There was no way Woodson would have kept his job if he didn't win more than he lost.

it was never woodson's team to coach. he hadn't earned the right but he took the opportunity anyway even though he knew what he was getting into. i don't consider that a high character decision on his part, so he simply exacerbated the problem. i have already debunked, utterly the vaunted 18-6. the 54 win season remains an empty calorie accomplishment, kind of like those participation trophies kids get nowadays.

What problem did Woodson exacerbate? He won with a roster put together with the intention of competing. Also, what did you debunk? Winning 54 games in an nba season is a huge accomplishment. When was the last time a Knick team did that?

he agreed to coach for a franchise that was dysfunctional and did nothing to try and change things once kidd and company were gone. he was simply a company man, an indiana crony-- cronyism is a contributing factor, a bit incestuous even. not really competent as his playoff record has shown. also, at some point he changed agents to accommodate dolan, which was also a roll over and rub my belly move. woodson is not a high character guy and he will not be a head coach again in the nba.