Rookie wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Just saying, they all have that characteristic.

Interesting all 3 players move well without the ball (we have a movement offense). Williams and Afflalo play well off of screens and Lopez is a screen setting machine. Sounds like Phil is building a team.

Excellent point! When was the last time we had a player that moved well without the ball. Been at least 15yrs? Lee maybe?

You can see we finally have somewhat of a plan. Every move is made with a purpose. Each moves jives with the next. Each move with some foresight. Unlike in the past when they would throw droppings against the ceiling and hope it stuck

gunsnewing wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

s3231 wrote:Not crazy about this one...really liked Robin and Affalo deals but just don't get the $$$ on this one.

Seems like a player friendly deal for a player that frankly, hasn't earned it.

Don't mind taking a shot on him just don't get why he needs to cost that much but I guess I shouldn't be that surprised with how this FA has been going..

Phil must see something there so I hope he is right.

Given the advanced stats, I'm not crazy about the Afflalo signing either though I do like Lopez.
13 mil in cap space (Afflalo and Williams) is a huge amount to use up on guys with universally bad metrics.

I agree but does Afflalo have bad metrics or just avg metrics or does his avg metrics become bad at $8m?

This thought process is crazy. So every player on the team has to have above average metrics to win? How are Curry, Clay & Lee's defensive metrics? They won and were key contributors right? You win as a team and with guys stepping up at the right time. I love advance ststs but the nba is not made up of robots. This is the same kinda reasoning the retarded Yankees used to not re-sign Cano. Now look. You are telling me they couldn't use his 30/30/100 with gold glove defense at 2nd right now?

He didn't specify defensive metrics. Afflalo's numbers have been in decline since 2011-12, both offensively and defensively. And he's 30 years old so he'll only be getting worse.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

TheGame wrote:I now understand why Phil paid Williams $5 mill per. Williams made $6.3 million, so we actually got him to take a pay cut to sign. THis is probably why we had to give up the player option. If Phill wanted him, this is the deal he probably had to make to get him. My question is why did he want him. I would rather have Brandon Bass or Jordan Hill.

Phil aways had those athletic SFs that can slash and hit 3s. I think this is what Phil is envisioning for Williams

I see. Williams is the next Pippen. Or at least Odom. Impressive signing!!!

Easy there! The athletism and ability to move without the ball is certainly there. But he has to develop the rest. His passing, rebounding, defending, IQ and overall drive for the game. You know he can do it because you see it in flashes. Maybe just maybe he will find his niche here

RonRon wrote:I seriously believe that Derrick Williams would have eventually considered the NYK's on a 2year VET MIN DEAL like Wesley Johnson did by signing with The Lakers for 2years for the vet min

Especially if we signed Greg Monroe and Lopez with majority of our cap space, then use Cole Aldrich to get the FULL MLE, using most of it on Wesley Johnson who both played for Twolves and were team mates together
With AB considering rejoining the NYK's, if we promised him we would give him a decent contract like 5m x 4years next year when the cap goes up

a rotation of Greg Monroe, Lopez, KP, AB, Cole Aldrich and VET MIN SIGNINGS would be better than what we have by far, if not resign Lou Amundson/Jason Smith for AB's role

Now for our SG/SF's, with Wesley Johnson who could certainly help mentor Thanasis and FIT AND PLAY WITH HIS DEFENSIVE potential, along with vet min signings as there are a lot of SG/SF's that are available to choose from that are FA's and some of which are on the D League

So whether Derrick Williams would consider a 2year deal vet min deal as he would be our SF/PF when we go small with the opportunity to get more minutes, if not go another route as someone will be willing to replace his production easily...

I would like to trade for James Johnson who would be an expiring at 2.5m, 2 year deal, in which we would have his bird rights next summer
Even Jeremy Evans on a 2year deal and a vet min deal for Lance Thomas

Yea I wanted DW even if we got Monroe.

Monroe, DW, Affalo, Perkins/Brand/Caron would've been a phenomenal offseason

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Every player they got is called a "high IQ" player. You can say other players are better players or performed better, but these new role players all have 1 characteristic in common... High IQ. Say what you want, Phil is building his team.

So I have not heard that about Rolo, Afflalo or DWilliams.... is that true? Literally dont know.

It's definitely true for Lopez. I think Afflalo can play well in the right situation. Not sure about Williams.

This was his scouting report in 2011:

Tough and physical, hard to stop at the rim; finishes after contact for easy ‘And 1,′ strong rebounder(8.3 reb. as soph.)
Movement off ball and getting open, always in good position around the basket for an easy finish off a teammate’s pass.
Smart player with great basketball IQ; understands his role and plays within the team, consistent scorer and contributor.
Post moves look solid thanks in part to excellent footwork; excellent inside-out game on the face up.
Good looking shot, much improved jumper from freshman to sophomore year, threat from three (56.8 percent as soph.)
Explosive forward who runs the floor very well and has great bounce, dunks with power and authority.
Clutch, go to player down the stretch of games; made numerous game saving blocks in the final seconds.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/701891-nba-draft-2011-scouting-report-profile-derrick-Williams

EwingsGlass wrote:Afflalo's draft scouting report:
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/arron-afflalo

Possesses an NBA ready body, blessed with excellent upper body strength Moves extremely well without the ball in his hands, understanding how to free himself for shots Works well running off screens where he is a capable shooter Has three point range on his jumper Good finisher in transition Body strength enables him to convert difficult shots with ease as well as the ability to finish after contact Plays the game with poise and maturity rarely found on the college level Shows great patience, rarely does he play out of control or force the action Simply allows the game to come to him Leadership qualities and the mental toughness he brings each game sets the tone for his team Unselfish player who possesses solid court vision Does a great job of feeding the post Excellent basketball IQ, makes great decisions during games Uses the mid-range jumper with the best of them Despite the coverage if you give him enough daylight his quick release allows for more than enough time to shoot Underrated rebounder capable of making an impact on the glass Defensively he does an admirable job of staying in front of his man Shows good body control when he penetrates the lane Quality free throw shooter Extremely coachable player whose work ethic is among the best in the NCAA Fundamentally he is as sound as them come Despite his struggles in the Final Four last year, he has proven to be a very clutch player ...

Wow good stuff, thanks

It's amazing that he has missed so badly in the NBA given those attributes. But maybe being misused in Minnesota and being behind Kevin Love and then being behind DeMarcus Cousins in Sacto has something to do with it. Of course you could argue he might wind up behind Melo and KP here.

gunsnewing wrote:

Rookie wrote:

nixluva wrote:

RonRon wrote:I seriously believe that Derrick Williams would have eventually considered the NYK's on a 2year VET MIN DEAL like Wesley Johnson did by signing with The Lakers for 2years for the vet min

Especially if we signed Greg Monroe and Lopez with majority of our cap space, then use Cole Aldrich to get the FULL MLE, using most of it on Wesley Johnson who both played for Twolves and were team mates together
With AB considering rejoining the NYK's, if we promised him we would give him a decent contract like 5m x 4years next year when the cap goes up

a rotation of Greg Monroe, Lopez, KP, AB, Cole Aldrich and VET MIN SIGNINGS would be better than what we have by far, if not resign Lou Amundson/Jason Smith for AB's role

Phil made a balanced use of his cap space IMO. Sure he could've gone a number of different ways but he had a plan and IMO executed it fairly well. RoLo at C, Afflalo at SG and DWill at SF/PF is addressing areas of need. Phil still has some cap to make some low cost moves.

I could see Phil trying to bring in Elton Brand for a year. He tried to sign him last summer

Perkins, Brand or Caron(triangle). We need leadership now

Agreed. Would love to add Brand for the rest of the cap ( think it's about $2m) and Caron for the room exception. Or on vet minimums.

Would also love to bring back Cole, Amundson, Shved and Lance if possible.

Continuity and leadership should be the goal for the rest of the roster.

Caron played a few years in the Triangle, too.

VCoug wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

s3231 wrote:Not crazy about this one...really liked Robin and Affalo deals but just don't get the $$$ on this one.

Seems like a player friendly deal for a player that frankly, hasn't earned it.
I
Don't mind taking a shot on him just don't get why he needs to cost that much but I guess I shouldn't be that surprised with how this FA has been going..

Phil must see something there so I hope he is right.

Given the advanced stats, I'm not crazy about the Afflalo signing either though I do like Lopez.
13 mil in cap space (Afflalo and Williams) is a huge amount to use up on guys with universally bad metrics.

I agree but does Afflalo have bad metrics or just avg metrics or does his avg metrics become bad at $8m?

This thought process is crazy. So every player on the team has to have above average metrics to win? How are Curry, Clay & Lee's defensive metrics? They won and were key contributors right? You win as a team and with guys stepping up at the right time. I love advance ststs but the nba is not made up of robots. This is the same kinda reasoning the retarded Yankees used to not re-sign Cano. Now look. You are telling me they couldn't use his 30/30/100 with gold glove defense at 2nd right now?

He didn't specify defensive metrics. Afflalo's numbers have been in decline since 2011-12, both offensively and defensively. And he's 30 years old so he'll only be getting worse.

No doubt you are correct on that. His current metrics are pretty bad. I think the analysis is that he was injured/off year. But it does give some pause. Not exactly upside growth potential here. I think some defense and 3pt shooting is what they want here.

EwingsGlass wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

crzymdups wrote:

martin wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:Every player they got is called a "high IQ" player. You can say other players are better players or performed better, but these new role players all have 1 characteristic in common... High IQ. Say what you want, Phil is building his team.

So I have not heard that about Rolo, Afflalo or DWilliams.... is that true? Literally dont know.

It's definitely true for Lopez. I think Afflalo can play well in the right situation. Not sure about Williams.

This was his scouting report in 2011:

Tough and physical, hard to stop at the rim; finishes after contact for easy ‘And 1,′ strong rebounder(8.3 reb. as soph.)
Movement off ball and getting open, always in good position around the basket for an easy finish off a teammate’s pass.
Smart player with great basketball IQ; understands his role and plays within the team, consistent scorer and contributor.
Post moves look solid thanks in part to excellent footwork; excellent inside-out game on the face up.
Good looking shot, much improved jumper from freshman to sophomore year, threat from three (56.8 percent as soph.)
Explosive forward who runs the floor very well and has great bounce, dunks with power and authority.
Clutch, go to player down the stretch of games; made numerous game saving blocks in the final seconds.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/701891-nba-draft-2011-scouting-report-profile-derrick-Williams

EwingsGlass wrote:Afflalo's draft scouting report:
http://www.nbadraft.net/players/arron-afflalo

Possesses an NBA ready body, blessed with excellent upper body strength Moves extremely well without the ball in his hands, understanding how to free himself for shots Works well running off screens where he is a capable shooter Has three point range on his jumper Good finisher in transition Body strength enables him to convert difficult shots with ease as well as the ability to finish after contact Plays the game with poise and maturity rarely found on the college level Shows great patience, rarely does he play out of control or force the action Simply allows the game to come to him Leadership qualities and the mental toughness he brings each game sets the tone for his team Unselfish player who possesses solid court vision Does a great job of feeding the post Excellent basketball IQ, makes great decisions during games Uses the mid-range jumper with the best of them Despite the coverage if you give him enough daylight his quick release allows for more than enough time to shoot Underrated rebounder capable of making an impact on the glass Defensively he does an admirable job of staying in front of his man Shows good body control when he penetrates the lane Quality free throw shooter Extremely coachable player whose work ethic is among the best in the NCAA Fundamentally he is as sound as them come Despite his struggles in the Final Four last year, he has proven to be a very clutch player ...

Wow good stuff, thanks

It's amazing that he has missed so badly in the NBA given those attributes. But maybe being misused in Minnesota and being behind Kevin Love and then being behind DeMarcus Cousins in Sacto has something to do with it. Of course you could argue he might wind up behind Melo and KP here.

It's the tweener problem. Guys big enough to dominate in college but not in the NBA. They have to be motor guys to excel. Williams has not shown motor.

He's shown it occasionally, which is the frustrating part.

VCoug wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

s3231 wrote:Not crazy about this one...really liked Robin and Affalo deals but just don't get the $$$ on this one.

Seems like a player friendly deal for a player that frankly, hasn't earned it.

Don't mind taking a shot on him just don't get why he needs to cost that much but I guess I shouldn't be that surprised with how this FA has been going..

Phil must see something there so I hope he is right.

Given the advanced stats, I'm not crazy about the Afflalo signing either though I do like Lopez.
13 mil in cap space (Afflalo and Williams) is a huge amount to use up on guys with universally bad metrics.

I agree but does Afflalo have bad metrics or just avg metrics or does his avg metrics become bad at $8m?

This thought process is crazy. So every player on the team has to have above average metrics to win? How are Curry, Clay & Lee's defensive metrics? They won and were key contributors right? You win as a team and with guys stepping up at the right time. I love advance ststs but the nba is not made up of robots. This is the same kinda reasoning the retarded Yankees used to not re-sign Cano. Now look. You are telling me they couldn't use his 30/30/100 with gold glove defense at 2nd right now?

He didn't specify defensive metrics. Afflalo's numbers have been in decline since 2011-12, both offensively and defensively. And he's 30 years old so he'll only be getting worse.

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

s3231 wrote:Not crazy about this one...really liked Robin and Affalo deals but just don't get the $$$ on this one.

Seems like a player friendly deal for a player that frankly, hasn't earned it.

Don't mind taking a shot on him just don't get why he needs to cost that much but I guess I shouldn't be that surprised with how this FA has been going..

Phil must see something there so I hope he is right.

Given the advanced stats, I'm not crazy about the Afflalo signing either though I do like Lopez.
13 mil in cap space (Afflalo and Williams) is a huge amount to use up on guys with universally bad metrics.

I agree but does Afflalo have bad metrics or just avg metrics or does his avg metrics become bad at $8m?

Career-wise his metrics are only a little below average. But in 2 of the past 3 years, his metrics have been really bad and he's entering an age (the 30s) where metrics usually go downhill.

These guys signed for 1-2yrs relax.

Now giving Lopez 4yrs at $4mil is beyond retarded. But he is a high IQ efficient smart player and may still improve offensively in this system

Afflalo and Williams are short contracts thankfully but the problem is they used up half of this year's cap.

We were a few more league moves from eating $27mil. No significant FA wanted to be here. Whether its Melo, Dolan or the losing. And no one would come here in the future if we ate the $27mil. At least now we might win 40-50 games and be more attractive again

This isn't close to a 50 win team. Even if Melo is completely healthy we're going to struggle to win 40.

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

s3231 wrote:Not crazy about this one...really liked Robin and Affalo deals but just don't get the $$$ on this one.

Seems like a player friendly deal for a player that frankly, hasn't earned it.

Don't mind taking a shot on him just don't get why he needs to cost that much but I guess I shouldn't be that surprised with how this FA has been going..

Phil must see something there so I hope he is right.

Given the advanced stats, I'm not crazy about the Afflalo signing either though I do like Lopez.
13 mil in cap space (Afflalo and Williams) is a huge amount to use up on guys with universally bad metrics.

I agree but does Afflalo have bad metrics or just avg metrics or does his avg metrics become bad at $8m?

Career-wise his metrics are only a little below average. But in 2 of the past 3 years, his metrics have been really bad and he's entering an age (the 30s) where metrics usually go downhill.

These guys signed for 1-2yrs relax.

Now giving Lopez 4yrs at $4mil is beyond retarded. But he is a high IQ efficient smart player and may still improve offensively in this system

Afflalo and Williams are short contracts thankfully but the problem is they used up half of this year's cap.

We were a few more league moves from eating $27mil. No significant FA wanted to be here. Whether its Melo, Dolan or the losing. And no one would come here in the future if we ate the $27mil. At least now we might win 40-50 games and be more attractive again