callmened wrote:

mreinman wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

mreinman wrote:

stopstandthere wrote:It appears that AA has developed some bad habit while he was in Orlando where he was the first option.

He become more ball dominating and does not move well while the ball is not with him.

AA was and is pretty much consistently who he is. An under average player who won't pass.

Quick question, what holds more value? WS or WS48?

Also how would you evaluate a guy like Enes Kanter who's WS/WS48 has taken a leap due to the reduced role? His WS/WS48 went from scrubby in Utah to pretty good in OKC?

Jose Calderon's TS% has been great throughout his career and his WS/WS48 for most of his career have been pretty solid. Way better then what he has displayed with the Knicks. Before these last 2 seasons which Lowry has exploded and Calderon dropped. Calderon held higher TS and WS/WS48.

Tiago Splitter has had the WS/48 that if he got 36mins a game would be one of the best centers in the NBA.

These are legit questions and comments i'm presenting to understand this better, not sarcastic comments and questions saying that its BS.

kanter is a great example and so is monroe.

Defensive advanced stats are terrible and for now, you need to see (or hear/read) and understand how good a player is on defense. Bad defense unfortunately does not really show up in WS48. Maybe they will be there one day but not now. Harden looks great on many defensive advance stats and so does/did Iverson. Enough said, no?

So when judging a player and want to use advanced stats, you would at the very least need to know that they are a decent defender. If they are not good defenders then its hard to know how much weight you can give or subtract to WS48.

Again, defensive stats are hard to measure and definitely lagging.

perfectly stated! to me a judging a basketball player means evaluating offense AND defense. all that statistics are good for evaulating offense. defense is more of an eye test evaluation - guarding a man one v one, not fouling, def positioning, def IQ to rotate properly, EFFORT, fighting thru screens (wow i think kanter fails at each one of those categories). a player can be good one offense but if he is SO bad on defense then whats the point. kanter has his mins reduced since hes really THAT BAD on defense. so to me i could never classify him as a good player - unless he improves.

Point being his win shares proclaim that since going to the Thunder he has been a good player. So if Kanter was a free agent he would come off as a guy if given 30+mins a game would be a star big man for your team. But most likely this wouldn't be the case. It seems Kanter is doing well because his role is defined and it is specific to his skill set without asking him to be more. They have enough talent in OKC to do that. And is he a case study of players being able to improve there win shares by playing in roles and situations that suit them?

callmened wrote:

mreinman wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

mreinman wrote:

stopstandthere wrote:It appears that AA has developed some bad habit while he was in Orlando where he was the first option.

He become more ball dominating and does not move well while the ball is not with him.

AA was and is pretty much consistently who he is. An under average player who won't pass.

Quick question, what holds more value? WS or WS48?

Also how would you evaluate a guy like Enes Kanter who's WS/WS48 has taken a leap due to the reduced role? His WS/WS48 went from scrubby in Utah to pretty good in OKC?

Jose Calderon's TS% has been great throughout his career and his WS/WS48 for most of his career have been pretty solid. Way better then what he has displayed with the Knicks. Before these last 2 seasons which Lowry has exploded and Calderon dropped. Calderon held higher TS and WS/WS48.

Tiago Splitter has had the WS/48 that if he got 36mins a game would be one of the best centers in the NBA.

These are legit questions and comments i'm presenting to understand this better, not sarcastic comments and questions saying that its BS.

kanter is a great example and so is monroe.

Defensive advanced stats are terrible and for now, you need to see (or hear/read) and understand how good a player is on defense. Bad defense unfortunately does not really show up in WS48. Maybe they will be there one day but not now. Harden looks great on many defensive advance stats and so does/did Iverson. Enough said, no?

So when judging a player and want to use advanced stats, you would at the very least need to know that they are a decent defender. If they are not good defenders then its hard to know how much weight you can give or subtract to WS48.

Again, defensive stats are hard to measure and definitely lagging.

perfectly stated! to me a judging a basketball player means evaluating offense AND defense. all that statistics are good for evaulating offense. defense is more of an eye test evaluation - guarding a man one v one, not fouling, def positioning, def IQ to rotate properly, EFFORT, fighting thru screens (wow i think kanter fails at each one of those categories). a player can be good one offense but if he is SO bad on defense then whats the point. kanter has his mins reduced since hes really THAT BAD on defense. so to me i could never classify him as a good player - unless he improves.

You messed up the format of the response so I fixed.

e.g. Kanter, as efficient as he is on offense, if he gives up more points on defense then its worthless.

And lets revisit Jose. If he lets his man drive by him at will and a defender has to cover, and his man kicks it out to the left open man, how do you track how much of a negative impact that is?

Afflalo, he doesn't pass at all yet his shooting efficiency has been ok (thought his WS48 is below average), how bad is it for a team or teammates to just stand around and know that even though they are open, they are/will not get the ball? How much does this horribly affect teammates?

Even on offense, Tyson had a superb TS and WS48 yet him having zero range certain causes his teammates to be doubled teamed more. That would not show up either.

Again, nothing is perfect yet and if it was then a computer would make all transactions.

Also, teams with strong analytics departments probably have lots of data that we don't even know about.

Teams who do not rely on analytics are screwed and are probably run by people who think that they are smarter than they are.

callmened wrote:i thought for the most part, fans here thought that he was a nice upgrade to have as a starter but he was getting older, injury problems and therefore werent expecting great long term results. on a bad team (orlando/denver) hes a starter and on a good team (last yr portland) hes a bench player. were a bad team so i expected him to play

Wasn't he was the starter on the year Denver got 50+ win? Correct me otherwise.

stopstandthere wrote:

dk7th wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

fishmike wrote:I don't get the circle jerk... most people said the same thing. OK signing, has some upside if he fits well, no downside as the contract is short, reasonable and this is productive player. AA's defense has not been atrocious at all. It hasn't been good, but it hasn't been terrible either. Hindsight says still a good signing. Good use of available money. It wasn't a good season for the Knicks but AA was pretty much what most thought he would be

AA is a mediocre player signed for short term mediocre money. People generally garner much more respect when they admit that they are wrong rather than gloat when they are right.

i was dead wrong about afflalo. i liked the signing but his play does not merit starter's minutes. reduce his minutes to around 22-24 a game and he could prove of some value to the knicks. i should have looked at his advanced stats first before making my assumptions.

I was wrong that my expectation was too high on him.

yeah i liked the lopez signing too. glad that seems to be working out. he's proving his many haters wrong. took him all season to round into form but he seems to be on an upward curve developmentally.

callmened wrote:

stopstandthere wrote:

callmened wrote:i thought for the most part, fans here thought that he was a nice upgrade to have as a starter but he was getting older, injury problems and therefore werent expecting great long term results. on a bad team (orlando/denver) hes a starter and on a good team (last yr portland) hes a bench player. were a bad team so i expected him to play

Wasn't he was the starter on the year Denver got 50+ win? Correct me otherwise.

yes sir. he was the starting SG on those melo lead denver teams (2009-10) when he was 24 yrs old. then they traded him away and he progressively declined with age and injuries

I think he is talking about the year George Karl got fired after winning like 57 games or so that season. If that was the year he was talking about no, Andre Iguodala was.

newyorker4ever wrote:

mreinman wrote:His WS48 has been BRUTAL the last three years!

Also, why are his assist number so low? Averaging 2 assists per game at guard is really bad.

You're one of those people that wouldn't be happy no matter what we did. You'll find the bad in whatever move we make. We got a starting SG that plays both ends of the court for 8 million a year with just a two year contract with a player option on the 2nd. That's a good contract on a good player so be at least a little happy.

I am happy when I am supposed to be happy.

I was happy that we got lopez.

Sorry that your bot afflalo sucks.