BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:I just think Danny Green is a great pick up at around $8-9 mil. You know he is a great team player, defender and shooter. Just what you want to surround Melo with. He moves great and is effective without the ball.

Watching the playoffs makes it even more certain that investing 8-9mm in a role player like Green where the Knicks are could be a substantial mistake. I'll take the Clippers for example. They have 4 guards who can take you off the dribble and shoot the three. Its very hard to guard. Green needs to be passed to to score--he does NOT create his own shots which is paramount. He has thrived in a system of catch and shoot 3's based on one of the best low post player in history. You come to SA you get better--you leave you get worse. We should put 90% of our funds and assets into building a new frontline and 10% into augmenting a backcourt where we have some good players in place Svheyd Hardaway Galloway cough cough Calderon. Id rather buy two second rounders and grab an additional 1-2 UDFA--put them all on our SL team and see what we can get out of it. The cost is nominal. Because of analytics teams may run up the price of Green higher than people think and chasing a one dimensional offensive player(who does have solid defensive skills) is foolish at this stage of the game.

Who are the other two guards that take their man off the dribble? Let's not go crazy because Austin Rivers had a few good games in the playoffs and J.J. Redick rarely goes off the dribble. That's the same Redick who gets paid an avg of $6.9m a yr for shooting threes and playing only decent defense. So lets compare Green and Redick using the stats from NBA.com just like the article from what Nix posted. This year 56.6% of Redick's shots came off of 0 dribbles that is only 7.8% less than Green(64.4%). So it must be like Briggs say, J.J. uses that 7.8% to take his man to the hole. Well hold on because only 6% (42.9 fg%/46.4 efg%)of his shots are taken when he dribbles 3-6 times. Green is slightly ahead of him at 8.3% (45.9 fg% /52.5 efg%)on 3-6 dribbles. What Redick does is he will come off screens and take 1 or 2 dribbles to escape pressure and then shoot mostly jumper. Going back to the data 36.9% of Redick's shot comes off of or 2 dribbles(1 drib - 26% / 2 drib - 10.9%). Green only attempts 25.6% of his shots off of 1 or 2 dribles. Well maybe J.J. is going to the hole off of those 1-2 dribbles? Only 13% of Redick shots are less than 10 ft that is 9% less than Danny Green(22%). I guess you could still argue that the Clippers are not creating shots like the Spurs do for Green.

The Spurs’ system generates 28% wide open shots for Green; which is defined as the closest defender being 6+ feet away, and 34.4% open shots; which is defined as the closest defender being 4-6 feet away, as per NBA.com.

So what are we to make of these numbers. Well it seems that Redick does not create more than Danny Green and he definitely doesn't get near the basket as much as Green. Then when you combine open shots and wide open shots Green only shoots 1% more shot attempts than Redick.

I guess if we use the Clippers for an example we should put an extra $1.1m - $2.1m into a player like Redick but who defends way better. So I guess Danny Green is the right choice.

yellowboy90 wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

nixluva wrote:I just think Danny Green is a great pick up at around $8-9 mil. You know he is a great team player, defender and shooter. Just what you want to surround Melo with. He moves great and is effective without the ball.

Watching the playoffs makes it even more certain that investing 8-9mm in a role player like Green where the Knicks are could be a substantial mistake. I'll take the Clippers for example. They have 4 guards who can take you off the dribble and shoot the three. Its very hard to guard. Green needs to be passed to to score--he does NOT create his own shots which is paramount. He has thrived in a system of catch and shoot 3's based on one of the best low post player in history. You come to SA you get better--you leave you get worse. We should put 90% of our funds and assets into building a new frontline and 10% into augmenting a backcourt where we have some good players in place Svheyd Hardaway Galloway cough cough Calderon. Id rather buy two second rounders and grab an additional 1-2 UDFA--put them all on our SL team and see what we can get out of it. The cost is nominal. Because of analytics teams may run up the price of Green higher than people think and chasing a one dimensional offensive player(who does have solid defensive skills) is foolish at this stage of the game.

Who are the other two guards that take their man off the dribble? Let's not go crazy because Austin Rivers had a few good games in the playoffs and J.J. Redick rarely goes off the dribble. That's the same Redick who gets paid an avg of $6.9m a yr for shooting threes and playing only decent defense. So lets compare Green and Redick using the stats from NBA.com just like the article from what Nix posted. This year 56.6% of Redick's shots came off of 0 dribbles that is only 7.8% less than Green(64.4%). So it must be like Briggs say, J.J. uses that 7.8% to take his man to the hole. Well hold on because only 6% (42.9 fg%/46.4 efg%)of his shots are taken when he dribbles 3-6 times. Green is slightly ahead of him at 8.3% (45.9 fg% /52.5 efg%)on 3-6 dribbles. What Redick does is he will come off screens and take 1 or 2 dribbles to escape pressure and then shoot mostly jumper. Going back to the data 36.9% of Redick's shot comes off of or 2 dribbles(1 drib - 26% / 2 drib - 10.9%). Green only attempts 25.6% of his shots off of 1 or 2 dribles. Well maybe J.J. is going to the hole off of those 1-2 dribbles? Only 13% of Redick shots are less than 10 ft that is 9% less than Danny Green(22%). I guess you could still argue that the Clippers are not creating shots like the Spurs do for Green.

The Spurs’ system generates 28% wide open shots for Green; which is defined as the closest defender being 6+ feet away, and 34.4% open shots; which is defined as the closest defender being 4-6 feet away, as per NBA.com.

The Clippers only generate 23.4% wide open shots for Redick but they are able to produce 38% open shots.

So what are we to make of these numbers. Well it seems that Redick does not create more than Danny Green and he definitely doesn't get near the basket as much as Green. Then when you combine open shots and wide open shots Green only shoots 1% more shot attempts than Redick.

I guess if we use the Clippers for an example we should put an extra $1.1m - $2.1m into a player like Redick but who defends way better. So I guess Danny Green is the right choice.

Truth is,
Danny Green is a glue player and is a role player
Like any contract, it comes down to price tag, fit for team/system/players/chemistry
His IQ, ability to spread the floor, defensive abilities to defend multiple positions, and leads the league in block shots for guards, while fitting he would need a strong POST PRESENCE and/or a quick PG to initiate the OFFENSE and other shooters to spread the floor

If Phil Jackson is able to acquire Tony Wroten for a swap of Tim Hardway JR/Early and a 2nd rounder, and add a strong post presence like Greg Monroe with some solid BIGS Ajinicia/Brandon Wright/Lavoy Allen/Serephin,

Green could be a very good glue player like Ariza has done for Houston

Look at how Ariza improved Houston, even without a PG and a strong post presence, the loss of Patrick Beverely *his defense and speed/quickness is surely missed* and DMO *especially as a stretch 4/5 that can score/rebound/defend*, really hurt the Rockets, though McHale isn't the greatest coach either

Maybe we are better off finding cheaper options like Wesley Johnson, Aminu, Derrick Williams, and cost efficient contracts rather than overpaying for a Danny Green, with Thanasis and many other D League G/F's like
Though we loss out on some of the better D league prospects, below are some possible cheap options as well as some other BIGS and backup backup PG's that could all continue to get better

Thanasis

Darington Hobson
James Anderson
Elliot Williams
Jarell Eddie
Scotty Hopson
CJ Fair

There are D League steals EVERY YEAR, and last season was another strong D League class
We loss our opportunity on some talents like Jabari Brown, Justin Holiday, of course with Whiteside and Covington as well, with Tyler Johnson as PG/SG, though there are still reasonable talents at minimuium costs

Tyler Johnson
Jabarai Brown
Justin Holiday
Covington
Whiteside

nixluva wrote:

holfresh wrote:

nixluva wrote:Danny Green is one of the most efficient offensive and defensive guards in Free Agency. There's literally no reason we wouldn't benefit greatly from having him on this team. Is he perfect? NO! But come on man. It would be great if he was able to create off the dribble but then if he did we'd have no shot to get him cuz he'd be an elite player. We'll still be able to run dribble drive guys like Shved and maybe Ledo in order to provide a change of look or we can find a young UDFA who is a penetrating guard.

Danny Green will be 28 years old in June...10 mil per year for a aging spot up shooter..Come on man...

I fail to see the point of your argument against him due to his age. There's nothing wrong with adding a vet in his prime to the roster. He's at his best right now and should remain effective for the next 4 years. His game isn't predicated on elite athletic ability. He's successful mostly on skill, lateral quickness, quick hands and length. Defensive talent like he has isn't reliant on straight line quickness.

I'm nearly 50 and I still have my quick hands and feet. I can't run a sprint like I used to but my reflexes are still there. I still know how to defend with proper spacing, anticipation and footwork and my hands are still quick. Danny was never really fast nor explosive so he's not really losing anything as he ages. He's the kind of player we need. We'll have younger players developing behind Danny anyway and it'll be good for them to learn from him.

As players get older, there is more of a chance of injury..He isn't a special player like Melo or Aldridge, so why risk it?..I'm not going to add a role player for big money in their prime who only is able to do one thing...Doesn't make sense..How is Green a better value for this team than Aminu and Austin Rivers??..Green is the 4th option on the Spurs, if you add a player like Green at that age and price, where are u going to get money to add players of need??..It doesn't make one iota of sense for an average player..Gallo makes 11 mil per, Green is not in the same league as Gallo...We need to add at least 3 pieces better than him..

yellowboy90 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil won't bring Danny Green here..He isn't a ball handler in the triangle..He is just a spot up shooter..He will be too expensive..I would much rather pay Austin Rivers and Aminu with Danny Green's money and they will fit better..

Is this a real post? Austin Rivers has to come a long way before he is even a below avg player. A mini is okay If he is less than 3m otherwise bring in the Greek. Okay, you don't like Green for his expected price but don't give me Rivers. Lol.

Also Danny rated out better than Jimmy Butler on D so he's not a guy that can only do one thing. Danny is the 2nd best rated free agent SG behind Butler.

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil won't bring Danny Green here..He isn't a ball handler in the triangle..He is just a spot up shooter..He will be too expensive..I would much rather pay Austin Rivers and Aminu with Danny Green's money and they will fit better..

Is this a real post? Austin Rivers has to come a long way before he is even a below avg player. A mini is okay If he is less than 3m otherwise bring in the Greek. Okay, you don't like Green for his expected price but don't give me Rivers. Lol.

Also Danny rated out better than Jimmy Butler on D so he's not a guy that can only do one thing. Danny is the 2nd best rated SG behind Butler.

based on what rating?

also, I think that Wes was better than him (pre injury of course)

Is he better than Harden? Klay thompson? Bradley Beal? Are you just talking about FA SG's avail?

I believe...
Nix is talkinga bout DEFENSE rating for SG's, not sure which advanced stat or stat he is using...

yellowboy90 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil won't bring Danny Green here..He isn't a ball handler in the triangle..He is just a spot up shooter..He will be too expensive..I would much rather pay Austin Rivers and Aminu with Danny Green's money and they will fit better..

Is this a real post? Austin Rivers has to come a long way before he is even a below avg player. A mini is okay If he is less than 3m otherwise bring in the Greek. Okay, you don't like Green for his expected price but don't give me Rivers. Lol.

What????....Dude is cheap and a lot better than what we have on the current roster..He is a big guard that can defend..Crazy not to see it...

mreinman wrote:

RonRon wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil won't bring Danny Green here..He isn't a ball handler in the triangle..He is just a spot up shooter..He will be too expensive..I would much rather pay Austin Rivers and Aminu with Danny Green's money and they will fit better..

Is this a real post? Austin Rivers has to come a long way before he is even a below avg player. A mini is okay If he is less than 3m otherwise bring in the Greek. Okay, you don't like Green for his expected price but don't give me Rivers. Lol.

Also Danny rated out better than Jimmy Butler on D so he's not a guy that can only do one thing. Danny is the 2nd best rated SG behind Butler.

based on what rating?

also, I think that Wes was better than him (pre injury of course)

Is he better than Harden? Klay thompson? Bradley Beal? Are you just talking about FA SG's avail?

I believe...
Nix is talkinga bout DEFENSE rating for SG's, not sure which advanced stat or stat he is using...

I thought so but he said that Green rated out better than Jimmy Butler. Maybe Bradley is #1?

I had edited my post to say "Free Agent SG" and I should've mentioned that was based on WS/48.

nixluva wrote:

mreinman wrote:

RonRon wrote:

mreinman wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil won't bring Danny Green here..He isn't a ball handler in the triangle..He is just a spot up shooter..He will be too expensive..I would much rather pay Austin Rivers and Aminu with Danny Green's money and they will fit better..

Is this a real post? Austin Rivers has to come a long way before he is even a below avg player. A mini is okay If he is less than 3m otherwise bring in the Greek. Okay, you don't like Green for his expected price but don't give me Rivers. Lol.

Also Danny rated out better than Jimmy Butler on D so he's not a guy that can only do one thing. Danny is the 2nd best rated SG behind Butler.

based on what rating?

also, I think that Wes was better than him (pre injury of course)

Is he better than Harden? Klay thompson? Bradley Beal? Are you just talking about FA SG's avail?

I believe...
Nix is talkinga bout DEFENSE rating for SG's, not sure which advanced stat or stat he is using...

I thought so but he said that Green rated out better than Jimmy Butler. Maybe Bradley is #1?

I had edited my post to say "Free Agent SG" and I should've mentioned that was based on WS/48.

James Harden
Jimmy Butler
Klay Thompson

are all ahead of him.

yellowboy90 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

holfresh wrote:Phil won't bring Danny Green here..He isn't a ball handler in the triangle..He is just a spot up shooter..He will be too expensive..I would much rather pay Austin Rivers and Aminu with Danny Green's money and they will fit better..

Is this a real post? Austin Rivers has to come a long way before he is even a below avg player. A mini is okay If he is less than 3m otherwise bring in the Greek. Okay, you don't like Green for his expected price but don't give me Rivers. Lol.

What????....Dude is cheap and a lot better than what we have on the current roster..He is a big guard that can defend..Crazy not to see it...

He is cheap and I like the idea of grabbing former lottery picks but besides a few games in the playoffs he has been a subpar player. His dad made an awful trade just to save his career and maybe he turns it around learning from Paul. I hope he does I've been following him since he was in H.S.

He isn't an all star..He has been ok..He has had a solid series so far...Sub par..He carried then on stretch in a game...Thats not bad for a 2.5/3mil player..