holfresh wrote:
This is the same crew that re-uped Billups and had a massive hard on for DWill that you are expressing confidence in..And what picks did we miss out on?..We were playing .500 ball with Amare playing out his mind..Remener MDA left because Dolan wouldn't do a Melo for DWill trade..

holfresh - The Answer Man stands by the theory that Donnie Walsh tendered his resignation as a result of Dolan over-ruling him and throwing in his stealth weapon (Mozgov, via Russia) in with the Denver bounty.

fishmike wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:This offseason is going to be the biigest offseason moving forward. We need to strike gold in the draft and in free agency. Says me stating the obvious. If Dolan can keep his mouth shut and let Big Chief Triangle work then I would be happy. If Uncle Phil fails..I hope its not because Dolan meddled again.

This. You have some dummies posting their agendas how Phil will fail and they have seen enough. Bottom line is we could walk out of the summer with talent that can change the direction of the franchise for a decade, but yea.. lets just decide we have seen enough

We do need PHil to strike some gold.. not with every move but at least a couple. A win in the draft and at least one high caliber FA is critical.

I don't think I've seen one person say Phil will fail. Many people (including Phil himself) have said what he did over the off-season was a failure but I don't think anyone here has said they know he will fail in the future. A LOT of people have misread criticism of his past decisions as indicating a belief that he is certain to fail in the future though.

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

misterearl wrote:Mercenaries R Us

NYKBocker - throwing money at a problem is never a solution. "What is my motivation?"

It is what it is and this is where we are at. We were in such bad shape that this had to be the only path. You can't blame this front office for the failings of the previous front office. Actually, we were in great shape with Donnie until Dolan meddled again.

How could we be in great shape owing Amare 100 mil on bad knees..And salivating to sign DWill..

because Will and Gallo were playing well. Mosgov was a nice piece. Felton was 27 and playing the ball of his career. We had our picks. Even with Amare's knee ready to explode we could have amnestied him.

You realize we used that amnesty on Billups, ONLY AFTER we picked up his option in the first place? That team had pieces to work with and moves to make. They were playing well before the Melo rumors derailed Gallo's good play (forever it seems). But sigh... those days are loooong gone.

Funny, seemed like starphuchers were dancing to the golden Mooby to the tune that Gallo, or any piece was not worth the sum that was melo. but they were assets that could have been used in ways we cannot fathom now.
Funny, we hated the trade because we had to woo JR out of China. We hated the trade because we were depleted.
Funny, the starphuchers had "Grunwald for exec of the year" when we payed off Billups AND signed ThraFluTyson at the same time!!!!!
Funny, Melo has lived up to his billing.
FUnny, Its as if there is "Phil", and host of other little white 35 year old POplovitch clone GM's that could have made magic instead! Some of y'all forgote Early was even part of the Tyson trade.
Funny, Nobody can see past 10 wins? We should have kept tyson, Shump, Felton and JR!!!!!! If we got Kyle Lowrey we'd be SOOOOO much better!!!!!

Splat wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:This offseason is going to be the biigest offseason moving forward. We need to strike gold in the draft and in free agency. Says me stating the obvious. If Dolan can keep his mouth shut and let Big Chief Triangle work then I would be happy. If Uncle Phil fails..I hope its not because Dolan meddled again.

This. You have some dummies posting their agendas how Phil will fail and they have seen enough. Bottom line is we could walk out of the summer with talent that can change the direction of the franchise for a decade, but yea.. lets just decide we have seen enough

We do need PHil to strike some gold.. not with every move but at least a couple. A win in the draft and at least one high caliber FA is critical.

I don't think I've seen one person say Phil will fail. Many people (including Phil himself) have said what he did over the off-season was a failure but I don't think anyone here has said they know he will fail in the future. A LOT of people have misread criticism of his past decisions as indicating a belief that he is certain to fail in the future though.

I said it. Phil will fail.

He is full of himself and put his ideologies before common sense. Other NBA execs run circles around him. If they are still pushing the triangle in the off-season then he is not just stubborn, but in early stages of senile dementia. The guy is clearly out of his league. And he was incredibly vain to have thought he could rest on his laurels. His rings mean squat.

fishmike wrote:

holfresh wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

misterearl wrote:Mercenaries R Us

NYKBocker - throwing money at a problem is never a solution. "What is my motivation?"

It is what it is and this is where we are at. We were in such bad shape that this had to be the only path. You can't blame this front office for the failings of the previous front office. Actually, we were in great shape with Donnie until Dolan meddled again.

How could we be in great shape owing Amare 100 mil on bad knees..And salivating to sign DWill..

because Will and Gallo were playing well. Mosgov was a nice piece. Felton was 27 and playing the ball of his career. We had our picks. Even with Amare's knee ready to explode we could have amnestied him.

You realize we used that amnesty on Billups, ONLY AFTER we picked up his option in the first place? That team had pieces to work with and moves to make. They were playing well before the Melo rumors derailed Gallo's good play (forever it seems). But sigh... those days are loooong gone.

Yup Yup

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Splat wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:This offseason is going to be the biigest offseason moving forward. We need to strike gold in the draft and in free agency. Says me stating the obvious. If Dolan can keep his mouth shut and let Big Chief Triangle work then I would be happy. If Uncle Phil fails..I hope its not because Dolan meddled again.

This. You have some dummies posting their agendas how Phil will fail and they have seen enough. Bottom line is we could walk out of the summer with talent that can change the direction of the franchise for a decade, but yea.. lets just decide we have seen enough

We do need PHil to strike some gold.. not with every move but at least a couple. A win in the draft and at least one high caliber FA is critical.

I don't think I've seen one person say Phil will fail. Many people (including Phil himself) have said what he did over the off-season was a failure but I don't think anyone here has said they know he will fail in the future. A LOT of people have misread criticism of his past decisions as indicating a belief that he is certain to fail in the future though.

I said it. Phil will fail.

He is full of himself and put his ideologies before common sense. Other NBA execs run circles around him. If they are still pushing the triangle in the off-season then he is not just stubborn, but in early stages of senile dementia. The guy is clearly out of his league. And he was incredibly vain to have thought he could rest on his laurels. His rings mean squat.

See Bonn? Splat has run out of "more important things to do" and is back trolling UK with his insight

And it took him only a few min to correct me!
Still, I think very few people are stating what will happen in the future.
For all we know, Lebron could decide to sign here and then a year later Durant could too. And then I think Isiah, Layden, or anyone could build that into a contending team. You can't have certainty that a GM will or won't succeed in the future. All you can do is analyze what's been done in the past and being done in the present.

NYKBocker wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:This offseason is going to be the biigest offseason moving forward. We need to strike gold in the draft and in free agency. Says me stating the obvious. If Dolan can keep his mouth shut and let Big Chief Triangle work then I would be happy. If Uncle Phil fails..I hope its not because Dolan meddled again.

This. You have some dummies posting their agendas how Phil will fail and they have seen enough. Bottom line is we could walk out of the summer with talent that can change the direction of the franchise for a decade, but yea.. lets just decide we have seen enough

We do need PHil to strike some gold.. not with every move but at least a couple. A win in the draft and at least one high caliber FA is critical.

I mean fish, he put together a 10 win team, how in the world can you be excited about his future moves. Usually people are judge on what they have done, not what their gong to do.

Phil was smart enough and the balls to concede early. We are in tank mode to get the most ping pong balls in the lottery. 10 win team is what we need right now. He has set us up to have a great chance in both the draft and the FA market. This is a throw away season to get better. SA did this before the Duncan draft and they had The Admiral shutting it down for that year. Hopefully, Melo can be our Admiral and OK4/Towns/Russel/Mudiay can be our Timmy. Plus, we get a max type FA player coming along with 2nd tier players with the cap space we have. I can't wait for the season to be over.

Ok, so whats the pitch to a veteran FA..

Duncan was an extremely HIGH IQ PLAYER, they had a ton of quality role players and leadership on SA, and David robinson. WE have none of that, not even remotely close

I think the playing at the mecca or playing with in a system based offense or any supposed pros or cons playing at NY is played out. I think at the end of the day free agents will only care about the money. We have the money to throw at them. They will come.

This dude phil has said on several occasions he won't over pay for FA,just like he blew smoke stating he hoped melo would take less and when he heard melo was close to signing with the bulls, he hop his ass on a plan with a max contract in hand, because

His plan A's have all failed big time, from kerr, to melo taking less, to the triangle, to the trades, and His plan B's are on the fly, so those aren't working either

So what kind of $ are we throwing at FA.

He tried to negotiate with Melo but at the end of the day he did not want to lose his only asset. In regards with Kerr, he obviously knows coaching talent since he saw that Kerr was going to be good and that is why he offered him the job. If GSW didn't fire Action Jackson then Kerr would have been here. I don't think that would have made a difference with this roster though and we would have still been on the same boat. I don't see why the triangle is a problem. It's a system. It has a proven track record. You have to let it play out to more than just 1 season. Let's see how it looks when Phil gets the players he wants for this system. How do you know that his Plan B is on the fly? It seems blowing it up is a very good strategy. There have been a lot of teams that tanked and recovered in a year or 2.

All of his plan A's were looking like great moves. The triangle is just not good for this era of basketball, or for average talented wing man. Majority of the best players in the NBA today are PG's and stretch 4's and 5's. Jimmy butler, and deron rozen are like the top 2gs in the league. those guys would have been far down the pole in the era of Jordan, kobe, spree, reggie, starks, mitch richmond, dumars to name a few.

misterearl wrote:StarksEwing - no matter who Uncle Phil restocks the roster with, there are no guarantees. We watch because of the drama and the espionage and the unknown. It cannot be scripted, even when we are good and terrible.

There is not a single reason to NOT go all in. Are you scared of watching horrible basketball in the dark with things that go bump in the night?

The emotion keeps us engaged. The losses make us tougher.

This season loses are over.
What we are watching (if we do) are the dances of the dead.
This team cannot lose because it is not put on the court to win.
The things which matter are draft and FA season (to lesser extend).
Then next season will come and team building will start.
Then next one and it will continue... may be with playoff hopes.
Leave the dead to the brain dead.

knicks1248 wrote:

misterearl wrote:Talent Alone Does Not Win

nixluva wrote:Also can we at least recognize that this team has been cleaned out? Can we acknowledge that this team will be remade this summer in terms of adding some frontline players? This current roster is not designed to impress. It's the start of a process to assess prospects and see who might be worth keeping around next year. The draft and Free Agency is gong to be used to bring in starting level talent this summer. We can't know how successful that will be until after we see who is brought in and they play together. Still I see no reason to make claims this franchise won't "recover for a decade".

(Please pardon the duplicate post)

Nixluva - the simplicity of your reliance upon a draft pick and free agents is staggering.

In the sixties, When the Knicks locker room could have fractured over issues of race, Bill Bradley stepped up and reminded young players that divisive behavior would not be tolerated.

When Cazzie struggled with playing understudy to Bradley and created a distraction, Willis Reed consoled and guided him.

When Earl Monroe arrived from Baltimore, Clyde adjusted his game to make room for a prodigious talent playing the identical position. Two point guards? Piece of cake. Clyde understood, without the press telling him it would never work.

JR ran crazy in New York because there was no leader on the court or in the locker room to demand that he conform to the Knicks way of doing things. Lebron runs the Cavs. Jordan ran the Bulls. Larry Bird was known as the traffic cop in Boston. JRSmith has the skill set of Kobe Bryant, yet he rarely harnesses it in the manner Kobe sets laser focus on a goal. Talent is not enough.

Great teams are not led by coaches. They are led by great players.

Leadership happens away from the lights, the press and apart from the coaching staff. It is baffling how followers delude themselves into believing transformation from 10 wins to The Finals is as simple as a draft pick and some free agents.

Draft picks do not have a voice in the locker room and free agents will have to create an intimate and respected leadership on the fly.

If you are ever in an NBA locker room, note how often the coaching staff is absent. Leadership does NOT come an offensive scheme or X's and O's... Leadership comes from the respected voice(s) in the locker room. In an airport waiting area, at the hotel restaurant. During practice, away from the action.

Without veteran continuity, there is no leadership. Without leadership, you got nothing but empty individual statistics on a piece of paper. That is a stone cold fact.

Our beloved New York Knicks are a bunch of guys playing pickup ball. Changing the culture sounds good in theory and makes for positive spin. Installing a culture that is based on trust, responsibility and unselfish acts is more than a notion. It requires veterans who have been exposed to a championship playing personality and a total team commitment to excellence, on and off the court.

The reason the San Antonio Spurs have multiple rings is not due to simply superior talent. They installed a championship playing personality over a decade ago.

We are starting from scratch and every single transaction will not pan out.

Where is our leadership coming from?

Absolutely well said Misterearl.

And to piggy back on what you said, Fisher was the absolute wrong coach for a team rebuilding, for a team that lack leadership. Then phil trades away all his veterans and leaves a bunch of d leaguer's on the roster. A bunch of guys that have little to no interest in the future of the franchise knowing damn well they will not be part of it.

Phils plan to conserve cap space is about as retarded as ones plan can get. The lakers had 22 million in cap space last season, and the best they did was take on Lin's poison pill contract.

Cap space means nothing when you have no core, no leader, a suspect coach and coming off a 12 win season.

We have no trading chips at all, so there won't be any sign trade possibilities, we have no veteran players to help with FA, and we have no championship coach to convince a FA that the path were on is championship destine.

Yes phil has set this franchise back about a good 8 yrs.

Where was this franchise going that it got set back? What was the trajectory of this team after last year?

I don't think Phil really messed up anything that was not already in decay. The new CBA does allow quicker rebuilds.

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:All of his plan A's were looking like great moves. The triangle is just not good for this era of basketball, or for average talented wing man. Majority of the best players in the NBA today are PG's and stretch 4's and 5's. Jimmy butler, and deron rozen are like the top 2gs in the league. those guys would have been far down the pole in the era of Jordan, kobe, spree, reggie, starks, mitch richmond, dumars to name a few.

If Phil puts a team together with the kind of talent he needs there is no reason why this team can't win running the Triangle in this era. People act like the Triangle is not actually basketball. Variations of the Triangle are actually being used by tons of teams throughout the league. You can take 3's if you want to in the Triangle. It's up to the confidence of the players. We need that kind of talent more than a change of the system. The beauty of the Triangle is that it gives you a way to play even if you don't have a great PG or tons of 3pt shooting. However if you do have those things it doesn't stop you from exploiting those talents.

You can see the spacing in this shot and really if the ball and player movement is executed there are going to be 3pt shots that open up. It really depends on who you have on the roster. If you have a stretch 4 that can really stroke it from 3 in addition to your PG, SG and SF, then you'll see more 3's taken.

Phil didn't just have talent, he had the 2 best shooting guards in the history of the game. The kind of talent he had does not exist in the NBA, or in college right now. The triangle can work if you very have high IQ players that are fundamentally sound, veterans that's been winning and playing together for a while. More importantly, you have to have the right kind of coach to implement it, especially off the court.

Let me ask you this..where does phil find the leadership that played a key role in running the triangle, especially in the locker room, not to mention living in NY. Do you think for one minute that Fisher will get the same respect as a head coach as phil. Phil has such a deep mental approach to basketball, the only person that comes close to him is pop.

You can't not have the kind of mental impact needed on your team if your sitting in front office. In a recent Interview, MJ said the hardest thing for him was that exact same sentiment. Your not with the team day to day, and you just can't step on your coaches toes

The lack of available FA with leadership qualities is quite evident, and that's what melo needs, thats what fisher needs, thats what phill needs, and thats what our draft pick will need.

CrushAlot wrote:
I think the fact that he was offered a new contract with a significant pay cut had something to do it as well.

A significant pay cut is a nice way of saying, "I'll expect your resignation on my desk by the close of business today."