BigRedDog wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:
i am not happy about stoudemire but he knew he was dead man walking-- and in fact i feel for the guy, since he came here as a free agent, had greater success than melo before coming here, and then was summarily shoved aside by the arrival of melo, who was dolan's signature move. his attitude must have been that, knowing he would be marginalized if not outright unwanted, that he was not going to be the good soldier and take a financial hit for a team that pretty much doesn't want him around. isn't that what you and 99% of the fan base thinking? this is the price of doing business as a franchise in disarray and chaos.

you might as well have asked all the dead men walking players during walsh's first two years to have done the same, including stephon dinglebury.

well did you? and did you begrudge them getting paid in full?

hypocrites will have a hard time contending with what i just laid out in plain english and logically. you're more than welcome to give it a try.

Again - you make it pretty difficult to take anything you post seriously.

Fact - Amare was damaged goods even before he signed here as a Free Agent. Amare was breaking down even before Melo was acquired.

Fact - Amare was brought in as a Free Agent at a great cost to the Knicks who traded multiple first round picks and gave away players in order to sign Amare

Fact - Amare would have been "shoved aside" had the Knicks original plan played out.......to sign Amare in order to lure LBJ.

Fact - I've never begrudged anyone getting paid in full.....ever.

Fact - you seem to have a problem with athletes getting paid as evidenced by your constant posting on the topic even calculating how much Melo makes per minute.

Fact - the "Dead Men Walking" as you indicate in your post have nothing to do with anything being discussed (Amare restructuring & Melo taking less)......you are only bringing those variable into your post as a misdirecting statement because you really have nothing valid to offer in this conversation except for your subjective (and seemingly tainted) opinion.

Fact - by making the statement "hypocrites will have a hard time contending ......" you are name calling using a passive aggressive/indirect technique - you do this often and it is why so few people on this board can stand your posts.

It would be nice if Melo took much less for the team. But it is no different than any other player also taking much less for the team - so let's not make it out to be that one guy is an ogre and everyone else is a saint.

hmmm... let's see....

your first assertion was fact, but i prefer that some facts be put in context, like for instance that the owner had placed a mandate that his team bring in two big names, the priority being lebron james.

with this priority in mind your second assertion is false, laughably so.

as is your third assertion.

your fourth assertion is not a fact it is an accusation masked as an opinion. that said, i begrudge people getting paid in full when they only do half the job required of them when the goal is winning titles.

and yes i do have a problem with athletes getting paid so much that they hurt their own chances at winning. melo is dumb that way, very dumb.

my dead man walking is the heart of the matter vis a vis complaining about stoudemire taking less for the sake of the knicks. that you want to dismiss it makes me question your reading comprehension.

the last fact regarding hypocrisy stands-- as evidenced by your weak sauce response to my post. nothing passive about it.

melo was in a position to do what was best for the knicks, a golden opportunity to redeem himslef and buy some goodwill capital from the fanbase.

he blew it.

So you think Melo should take a $10 million a yr pay cut to help the team bring in another star or 2.

What planet are you from DK, no other star is doing this, and please dont say LBJ, because if Kobe and KD were on board to join melo, I'm certain he would would have sacrifice. But thats not the case, and If you want me to, I can pull a number of Interviews where Melo has said it can't be all about him taking all the shots, and the next day when woods ws tol that, he basically ignore that and continued to run him into the ground.

You and TKF are in a minority here with this hating business, and thinking melo is damn near a forth option, you really have to open your mind up

I don't know why we are begging TKF, DK, Bonn and others to change. They have long showed there colors and are who they are. Phil Jackson obviously wanted Melo to stay and was a big part of Phil's plans. But since its not what they wanted its because Phil caved. Like they can't comprehend the possibilities of Phil actually believing Melo is a star player.

Its not like Phil built up credibility with the Bulls and Lakers to have major influence in personnel decisions after winning all those championships with them. All he did was coach and making personnel decisions is all new to him as a President(sarcasm). Phil says the discount amount was exactly what was needed but that's only a spin with no facts to back it up and for no other reason because its not the agreeable amount to what they wanted.

Melo is selfish, they are arrogant, life goes on.

really? exactly what we needed.. so what did we get with it? because until phil gets someone to come here how does he know exactly what was needed? come on.. you buying that crap? what should concern you is that phil did some double talking.. he put out there taking a substantial pay cut and he caved in, or whatever you call it, he didn't stick by what he said.. Technically it is a paycut, but in the spirit of taking a "paycut" it was a complete joke.. again it is akin to asking for a discount and me offering you a penny off and saying.. "well I offered you a discount as promised"...

Phil is known for being more of a straight shooter then a double talker. The substantial discount may have very well been the 6 mil saved. It may just be lower then your expectations. I am 100% sure that he and cap experts through the days of negotiation with Melo broke down how the 6mil helps the teams flexibility. The cap is projected to be 80 mil in 2 yrs I am sure all of these things have been thought out.

Its straight out of Phil's mouth that its what was needed and everything that was asked. Everything else is theories.

phil said that carmelo "sort of" did what was asked of him so far as a paycut. phil is not pleased.

I have no problems with people choosing to ignore facts. My problem is with people who attack others on a personal level for presenting the facts. Yes Phil did say that. And reports were he gave Melo 5 options. Unless I'm an idiot Melo took one that benefit himself more than the team

I guess you are an idiot ( your words not mine) because I'm sure the total max was on the table, no 6 million dollar discount. Melo passed on that to give the knicks some more flexability in yr 2. This is just getting so ridiculous!

when jackson says that melo "sort of" did what was asked of him that means that 5 payment scenarios were presented and melo rejected all five of them.

how else can this be interpreted... and yet you see it as melo's largesse. laughable

How do u know Melo rejected all 5 proposals??? I see it that Melo choose 1 of the 5 that Phil presented to him. Again u are making up a quote that Phil said "Melo sort of did what we wanted" Where does this come from ??? Show your source. I see "
Chris Herring ‏@HerringWSJ 2m
Phil suggests that Melo did take less money. "He did exactly what we asked him to," & that it may provide a little more wiggle room in 2015."

Phil stating Melo did EXACTLY what we asked him to do. Stop twisting the facts.

google "carmelo kind of did what we asked of him" and there are a bunch of sources, but for the record the exact quote from jackson is typically cryptic and jacksonian:
"“He did exactly what we kind of asked him to do,'' Jackson said. “Give us a break in the early part of the contract when we have some wiggle room — hopefully big enough wiggle room — next year when we can exploit it.''

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

Papabear wrote:

toad wrote:You can't build around Melo and his ego. This is not going to turn out well. We can only hope there's a trade down the line.

Papabear Says

Or we can hope that you start rooting for another team.

He should root for another team because he thinks we gave Carmelo too much money? You can't be serious....

Sadly, he is

I thought it was a fair suggestion. Why root for a team that has no chance to succeed. Why even follow?

I thought we get Melo too much money also, but thats the league, the world, pro sports, etc.

If something is impossible and cant only end in negative fashion why watch? I thought Papa was offering a nice alternative.

C'mon man. You can't be serious. You seem a lot more level headed than that. I root for the Mets, they have had no chance to succeed for most of my life (I am 38). I can rip them up and down as is my right as a fan but I would never leave. There were dozens of times that I was positive my teams were headed in the wrong direction, sometimes I was right and sometimes I was wrong. I put in a lifetime of rooting for them and wouldn't and don't want to root for another team

I don't think if you disagree with your teams direction you need to go find another one to root for.

dk7th wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:
i am not happy about stoudemire but he knew he was dead man walking-- and in fact i feel for the guy, since he came here as a free agent, had greater success than melo before coming here, and then was summarily shoved aside by the arrival of melo, who was dolan's signature move. his attitude must have been that, knowing he would be marginalized if not outright unwanted, that he was not going to be the good soldier and take a financial hit for a team that pretty much doesn't want him around. isn't that what you and 99% of the fan base thinking? this is the price of doing business as a franchise in disarray and chaos.

you might as well have asked all the dead men walking players during walsh's first two years to have done the same, including stephon dinglebury.

well did you? and did you begrudge them getting paid in full?

hypocrites will have a hard time contending with what i just laid out in plain english and logically. you're more than welcome to give it a try.

Again - you make it pretty difficult to take anything you post seriously.

Fact - Amare was damaged goods even before he signed here as a Free Agent. Amare was breaking down even before Melo was acquired.

Fact - Amare was brought in as a Free Agent at a great cost to the Knicks who traded multiple first round picks and gave away players in order to sign Amare

Fact - Amare would have been "shoved aside" had the Knicks original plan played out.......to sign Amare in order to lure LBJ.

Fact - I've never begrudged anyone getting paid in full.....ever.

Fact - you seem to have a problem with athletes getting paid as evidenced by your constant posting on the topic even calculating how much Melo makes per minute.

Fact - the "Dead Men Walking" as you indicate in your post have nothing to do with anything being discussed (Amare restructuring & Melo taking less)......you are only bringing those variable into your post as a misdirecting statement because you really have nothing valid to offer in this conversation except for your subjective (and seemingly tainted) opinion.

Fact - by making the statement "hypocrites will have a hard time contending ......" you are name calling using a passive aggressive/indirect technique - you do this often and it is why so few people on this board can stand your posts.

It would be nice if Melo took much less for the team. But it is no different than any other player also taking much less for the team - so let's not make it out to be that one guy is an ogre and everyone else is a saint.

hmmm... let's see....

your first assertion was fact, but i prefer that some facts be put in context, like for instance that the owner had placed a mandate that his team bring in two big names, the priority being lebron james.

with this priority in mind your second assertion is false, laughably so.

as is your third assertion.

your fourth assertion is not a fact it is an accusation masked as an opinion. that said, i begrudge people getting paid in full when they only do half the job required of them when the goal is winning titles.

and yes i do have a problem with athletes getting paid so much that they hurt their own chances at winning. melo is dumb that way, very dumb.

my dead man walking is the heart of the matter vis a vis complaining about stoudemire taking less for the sake of the knicks. that you want to dismiss it makes me question your reading comprehension.

the last fact regarding hypocrisy stands-- as evidenced by your weak sauce response to my post. nothing passive about it.

melo was in a position to do what was best for the knicks, a golden opportunity to redeem himslef and buy some goodwill capital from the fanbase.

he blew it.

So you think Melo should take a $10 million a yr pay cut to help the team bring in another star or 2.

What planet are you from DK, no other star is doing this, and please dont say LBJ, because if Kobe and KD were on board to join melo, I'm certain he would would have sacrifice. But thats not the case, and If you want me to, I can pull a number of Interviews where Melo has said it can't be all about him taking all the shots, and the next day when woods ws tol that, he basically ignore that and continued to run him into the ground.

You and TKF are in a minority here with this hating business, and thinking melo is damn near a forth option, you really have to open your mind up

I don't know why we are begging TKF, DK, Bonn and others to change. They have long showed there colors and are who they are. Phil Jackson obviously wanted Melo to stay and was a big part of Phil's plans. But since its not what they wanted its because Phil caved. Like they can't comprehend the possibilities of Phil actually believing Melo is a star player.

Its not like Phil built up credibility with the Bulls and Lakers to have major influence in personnel decisions after winning all those championships with them. All he did was coach and making personnel decisions is all new to him as a President(sarcasm). Phil says the discount amount was exactly what was needed but that's only a spin with no facts to back it up and for no other reason because its not the agreeable amount to what they wanted.

Melo is selfish, they are arrogant, life goes on.

really? exactly what we needed.. so what did we get with it? because until phil gets someone to come here how does he know exactly what was needed? come on.. you buying that crap? what should concern you is that phil did some double talking.. he put out there taking a substantial pay cut and he caved in, or whatever you call it, he didn't stick by what he said.. Technically it is a paycut, but in the spirit of taking a "paycut" it was a complete joke.. again it is akin to asking for a discount and me offering you a penny off and saying.. "well I offered you a discount as promised"...

Phil is known for being more of a straight shooter then a double talker. The substantial discount may have very well been the 6 mil saved. It may just be lower then your expectations. I am 100% sure that he and cap experts through the days of negotiation with Melo broke down how the 6mil helps the teams flexibility. The cap is projected to be 80 mil in 2 yrs I am sure all of these things have been thought out.

Its straight out of Phil's mouth that its what was needed and everything that was asked. Everything else is theories.

phil said that carmelo "sort of" did what was asked of him so far as a paycut. phil is not pleased.

I have no problems with people choosing to ignore facts. My problem is with people who attack others on a personal level for presenting the facts. Yes Phil did say that. And reports were he gave Melo 5 options. Unless I'm an idiot Melo took one that benefit himself more than the team

I guess you are an idiot ( your words not mine) because I'm sure the total max was on the table, no 6 million dollar discount. Melo passed on that to give the knicks some more flexability in yr 2. This is just getting so ridiculous!

when jackson says that melo "sort of" did what was asked of him that means that 5 payment scenarios were presented and melo rejected all five of them.

how else can this be interpreted... and yet you see it as melo's largesse. laughable

How do u know Melo rejected all 5 proposals??? I see it that Melo choose 1 of the 5 that Phil presented to him. Again u are making up a quote that Phil said "Melo sort of did what we wanted" Where does this come from ??? Show your source. I see "
Chris Herring ‏@HerringWSJ 2m
Phil suggests that Melo did take less money. "He did exactly what we asked him to," & that it may provide a little more wiggle room in 2015."

Phil stating Melo did EXACTLY what we asked him to do. Stop twisting the facts.

google "carmelo kind of did what we asked of him" and there are a bunch of sources, but for the record the exact quote from jackson is typically cryptic and jacksonian:
"“He did exactly what we kind of asked him to do,'' Jackson said. “Give us a break in the early part of the contract when we have some wiggle room — hopefully big enough wiggle room — next year when we can exploit it.''

Phil presented 5 offers as a way of giving Melo the options that cover all of the different scenarios that satisfy the team's goals. Phil essentially asked Melo to design his own contract keeping in mind what the team is trying to accompish, and gave 4 examples of how to do that. The 5th offer was the max, as a show of good faith if he wanted to accept it. Melo did exactly what was asked by giving up money where Phil wanted him to. It may or may not have been one of those specific offers, but it satisfied the goal. I don't understand why you are trying to twist this so much, when Phil said Melo did what was needed. Who cares whether not he accepted one of those "specific" deals. He satisfied the goal.

azamatbagatov wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:
i am not happy about stoudemire but he knew he was dead man walking-- and in fact i feel for the guy, since he came here as a free agent, had greater success than melo before coming here, and then was summarily shoved aside by the arrival of melo, who was dolan's signature move. his attitude must have been that, knowing he would be marginalized if not outright unwanted, that he was not going to be the good soldier and take a financial hit for a team that pretty much doesn't want him around. isn't that what you and 99% of the fan base thinking? this is the price of doing business as a franchise in disarray and chaos.

you might as well have asked all the dead men walking players during walsh's first two years to have done the same, including stephon dinglebury.

well did you? and did you begrudge them getting paid in full?

hypocrites will have a hard time contending with what i just laid out in plain english and logically. you're more than welcome to give it a try.

Again - you make it pretty difficult to take anything you post seriously.

Fact - Amare was damaged goods even before he signed here as a Free Agent. Amare was breaking down even before Melo was acquired.

Fact - Amare was brought in as a Free Agent at a great cost to the Knicks who traded multiple first round picks and gave away players in order to sign Amare

Fact - Amare would have been "shoved aside" had the Knicks original plan played out.......to sign Amare in order to lure LBJ.

Fact - I've never begrudged anyone getting paid in full.....ever.

Fact - you seem to have a problem with athletes getting paid as evidenced by your constant posting on the topic even calculating how much Melo makes per minute.

Fact - the "Dead Men Walking" as you indicate in your post have nothing to do with anything being discussed (Amare restructuring & Melo taking less)......you are only bringing those variable into your post as a misdirecting statement because you really have nothing valid to offer in this conversation except for your subjective (and seemingly tainted) opinion.

Fact - by making the statement "hypocrites will have a hard time contending ......" you are name calling using a passive aggressive/indirect technique - you do this often and it is why so few people on this board can stand your posts.

It would be nice if Melo took much less for the team. But it is no different than any other player also taking much less for the team - so let's not make it out to be that one guy is an ogre and everyone else is a saint.

hmmm... let's see....

your first assertion was fact, but i prefer that some facts be put in context, like for instance that the owner had placed a mandate that his team bring in two big names, the priority being lebron james.

with this priority in mind your second assertion is false, laughably so.

as is your third assertion.

your fourth assertion is not a fact it is an accusation masked as an opinion. that said, i begrudge people getting paid in full when they only do half the job required of them when the goal is winning titles.

and yes i do have a problem with athletes getting paid so much that they hurt their own chances at winning. melo is dumb that way, very dumb.

my dead man walking is the heart of the matter vis a vis complaining about stoudemire taking less for the sake of the knicks. that you want to dismiss it makes me question your reading comprehension.

the last fact regarding hypocrisy stands-- as evidenced by your weak sauce response to my post. nothing passive about it.

melo was in a position to do what was best for the knicks, a golden opportunity to redeem himslef and buy some goodwill capital from the fanbase.

he blew it.

So you think Melo should take a $10 million a yr pay cut to help the team bring in another star or 2.

What planet are you from DK, no other star is doing this, and please dont say LBJ, because if Kobe and KD were on board to join melo, I'm certain he would would have sacrifice. But thats not the case, and If you want me to, I can pull a number of Interviews where Melo has said it can't be all about him taking all the shots, and the next day when woods ws tol that, he basically ignore that and continued to run him into the ground.

You and TKF are in a minority here with this hating business, and thinking melo is damn near a forth option, you really have to open your mind up

the hate is funny. Its not Melo, its Bosh, Chandler Parsons, etc etc.. its the game. NBA has always been this way. The CBA is literally set up for teams to overpay to keep their own talent.

Melo did exactly what Phil asked him to. Thats from Phil's mouth. Let the man go built his team.

Phil doesn't know what he's doing, obviously. His stupidity in building teams around one-way players continues...
It's a shame, really.

All those rings will turn out to be a mirage, just you wait and see.

We are definitely in for another 5 years of fool's gold.

yea, how many teams have Phil built? I know he has coached some championship teams, and he has played on some.. but how many has he built?

for that matter Isiah has rings.. .how well did he do building the knicks a contender? I guess he knew what he was doing right? I am sure you were a huge isiah supporter right down to the end.. because he had rings, and obviously that means you can build champions... right? I mean those Isiah years were just great, hell I even remember the championship parade... I am sure there was one.. because to believe otherwise would just mean I am a Hater.. right?

Wow, this guy just compared Phil to Isiah! I don't see an epic failure like bankrupting the CBA on Phil's resume before coming here, do you? After Isiah's playing days ended, him being successful at any job he was employed at also came to end. After Phil's playing days ended, he has been the most successful coach to ever sit on the bench. Whether he was the best or not is another argument, but he was the most successful. I would think he deserves more than 3 months with a capped out team, no picks and disaster of a roster to mold a team before being mentioned in the same sentence as Isiah or his tenure being a failure.

I don't like that he gave Melo as much money as he did but I plan giving him some time on the job before the doom and gloom starts

they are just mad that he paid carmelo. In their minds, if you pay carmelo max money you must be an idiot because I am so smart and I would never do that.

azamatbagatov wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

Papabear wrote:

toad wrote:You can't build around Melo and his ego. This is not going to turn out well. We can only hope there's a trade down the line.

Papabear Says

Or we can hope that you start rooting for another team.

He should root for another team because he thinks we gave Carmelo too much money? You can't be serious....

Sadly, he is

I thought it was a fair suggestion. Why root for a team that has no chance to succeed. Why even follow?

I thought we get Melo too much money also, but thats the league, the world, pro sports, etc.

If something is impossible and cant only end in negative fashion why watch? I thought Papa was offering a nice alternative.

C'mon man. You can't be serious. You seem a lot more level headed than that. I root for the Mets, they have had no chance to succeed for most of my life (I am 38). I can rip them up and down as is my right as a fan but I would never leave. There were dozens of times that I was positive my teams were headed in the wrong direction, sometimes I was right and sometimes I was wrong. I put in a lifetime of rooting for them and wouldn't and don't want to root for another team

I don't think if you disagree with your teams direction you need to go find another one to root for.

Did you ever make a statement on a Met's board that they can't build around David Wright's ego and contract?

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

nixluva wrote:You guys are nuts if you think Phil and Fish aren't PERFECTLY equipped to handle a player like Melo after dealing with Kobe or MJ. Melo is not going to be a problem for them. One thing that also gives hope is how Melo played during the Olympics. After fighting MDA all season, he goes and does EXACTLY what MDA was asking him to do, in being more of a catch and shoot player and staying within the flow of the offense. There's no reason why we can't expect Melo to play in this system given the way it's setup for players with his skills already.

Melo will only have to buy in to the idea that he will have to do less in order for his team to do more. I think once he sees the team winning playing that way, he won't be a problem. We saw that for a while when the team was winning 2 years ago. He won't be a problem.

Is our rookie coach better equipped to deal with him than MDA was?

Of course he does because he was hand picked by Phil Jackson.

Ah, hand-picked by our rookie GM!

Yes ... who was handpicked by our veteran owner.

who has been a failure so far with this team..

Phil has been a failure based on what? Your extreme minority opinion? He made the most acclaimed trade amongst fans and media for this team in a very long time. He got assets while unloading dead weight, just what everyone has asked for. He also challenged Melo and resigned him at less than max, and we are the only team that pushed for him to sign for less than we could have signed him for. Any other GM of this team would have just offered the max and figured the rest out later. Kerr was the only misfire, but he landed a candidate of equal potential. Phil has been as good as we could have asked for. But again, thats the majority, not you and the other 1% who think Melo isn't worth the MLE in this league lol.

I was refering to dolan... and please phil caved he could have gone ahead and given him all the money and it would not have made any difference... caremlo taking a discount here is akin to your mom asking you as a kid to clean your room and you take all the junk and shove it under your bed and say..." Rooms clean".... This was a sham of a discount, and it is just breathtakingly ridiculous that you guys are actually giving props and buying into him Giving a discount... LOL.. I mean really man? really?

Kerr was the only misfire, but he landed a candidate of equal potential. Phil has been as good as we could have asked for. But again, thats the majority, not you and the other 1% who think Melo isn't worth the MLE in this league lol.

do you really think fisher is of equal potential? then I ask why did phil go so hard after kerr, remember kerr was already an exec in this league..

Phil has been averaged and has done what any GM in the league could have.. for 60 mil I expected more, a good GM IMO would have have been pushing for a sign and trade with the bulls... if we just brought phil in to chase and overpay carmelo, I say we wasted 60 mil on phil.. any GM, any could have offered a max to a greedy player who only wants money... and would have easily succeeded...

Listen, I like phil... AS a coach.. if he were coaching the knicks I would feel a bit different.. to me he has a lot to prove as a GM.. and Prez..

I think Fisher ends up being the better coach. Not sure that Kerr would be coaching the summer league team but what Fisher, and Rambis have done with the knicks squad has been very impressive. Fisher appears to be a natural. Fish was standing with his team up 30+ points in the summer league with under a minute left yesterday. The guy is locked in.

FISH IS A smart guy, I hope he turns out to be a good coach, would have been much better had he been coaching a team full of just young guys and no pressure to win now...

Didn't you post that you were "gone" if Melo was resigned? Are you not a man of your word?

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=47903&page=1

foosballnick wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

Papabear wrote:

toad wrote:You can't build around Melo and his ego. This is not going to turn out well. We can only hope there's a trade down the line.

Papabear Says

Or we can hope that you start rooting for another team.

He should root for another team because he thinks we gave Carmelo too much money? You can't be serious....

Sadly, he is

I thought it was a fair suggestion. Why root for a team that has no chance to succeed. Why even follow?

I thought we get Melo too much money also, but thats the league, the world, pro sports, etc.

If something is impossible and cant only end in negative fashion why watch? I thought Papa was offering a nice alternative.

C'mon man. You can't be serious. You seem a lot more level headed than that. I root for the Mets, they have had no chance to succeed for most of my life (I am 38). I can rip them up and down as is my right as a fan but I would never leave. There were dozens of times that I was positive my teams were headed in the wrong direction, sometimes I was right and sometimes I was wrong. I put in a lifetime of rooting for them and wouldn't and don't want to root for another team

I don't think if you disagree with your teams direction you need to go find another one to root for.

Did you ever make a statement on a Met's board that they can't build around David Wright's ego and contract?

I get your point but no I haven't, but it's apples and oranges. Cap vs No Cap, Owner with money vs Shady ass ponzi scheme owners, etc.

My complaints about the Mets have been ownership and front office related.

newyorknewyork wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:
i am not happy about stoudemire but he knew he was dead man walking-- and in fact i feel for the guy, since he came here as a free agent, had greater success than melo before coming here, and then was summarily shoved aside by the arrival of melo, who was dolan's signature move. his attitude must have been that, knowing he would be marginalized if not outright unwanted, that he was not going to be the good soldier and take a financial hit for a team that pretty much doesn't want him around. isn't that what you and 99% of the fan base thinking? this is the price of doing business as a franchise in disarray and chaos.

you might as well have asked all the dead men walking players during walsh's first two years to have done the same, including stephon dinglebury.

well did you? and did you begrudge them getting paid in full?

hypocrites will have a hard time contending with what i just laid out in plain english and logically. you're more than welcome to give it a try.

Again - you make it pretty difficult to take anything you post seriously.

Fact - Amare was damaged goods even before he signed here as a Free Agent. Amare was breaking down even before Melo was acquired.

Fact - Amare was brought in as a Free Agent at a great cost to the Knicks who traded multiple first round picks and gave away players in order to sign Amare

Fact - Amare would have been "shoved aside" had the Knicks original plan played out.......to sign Amare in order to lure LBJ.

Fact - I've never begrudged anyone getting paid in full.....ever.

Fact - you seem to have a problem with athletes getting paid as evidenced by your constant posting on the topic even calculating how much Melo makes per minute.

Fact - the "Dead Men Walking" as you indicate in your post have nothing to do with anything being discussed (Amare restructuring & Melo taking less)......you are only bringing those variable into your post as a misdirecting statement because you really have nothing valid to offer in this conversation except for your subjective (and seemingly tainted) opinion.

Fact - by making the statement "hypocrites will have a hard time contending ......" you are name calling using a passive aggressive/indirect technique - you do this often and it is why so few people on this board can stand your posts.

It would be nice if Melo took much less for the team. But it is no different than any other player also taking much less for the team - so let's not make it out to be that one guy is an ogre and everyone else is a saint.

hmmm... let's see....

your first assertion was fact, but i prefer that some facts be put in context, like for instance that the owner had placed a mandate that his team bring in two big names, the priority being lebron james.

with this priority in mind your second assertion is false, laughably so.

as is your third assertion.

your fourth assertion is not a fact it is an accusation masked as an opinion. that said, i begrudge people getting paid in full when they only do half the job required of them when the goal is winning titles.

and yes i do have a problem with athletes getting paid so much that they hurt their own chances at winning. melo is dumb that way, very dumb.

my dead man walking is the heart of the matter vis a vis complaining about stoudemire taking less for the sake of the knicks. that you want to dismiss it makes me question your reading comprehension.

the last fact regarding hypocrisy stands-- as evidenced by your weak sauce response to my post. nothing passive about it.

melo was in a position to do what was best for the knicks, a golden opportunity to redeem himslef and buy some goodwill capital from the fanbase.

he blew it.

So you think Melo should take a $10 million a yr pay cut to help the team bring in another star or 2.

What planet are you from DK, no other star is doing this, and please dont say LBJ, because if Kobe and KD were on board to join melo, I'm certain he would would have sacrifice. But thats not the case, and If you want me to, I can pull a number of Interviews where Melo has said it can't be all about him taking all the shots, and the next day when woods ws tol that, he basically ignore that and continued to run him into the ground.

You and TKF are in a minority here with this hating business, and thinking melo is damn near a forth option, you really have to open your mind up

I don't know why we are begging TKF, DK, Bonn and others to change. They have long showed there colors and are who they are. Phil Jackson obviously wanted Melo to stay and was a big part of Phil's plans. But since its not what they wanted its because Phil caved. Like they can't comprehend the possibilities of Phil actually believing Melo is a star player.

Its not like Phil built up credibility with the Bulls and Lakers to have major influence in personnel decisions after winning all those championships with them. All he did was coach and making personnel decisions is all new to him as a President(sarcasm). Phil says the discount amount was exactly what was needed but that's only a spin with no facts to back it up and for no other reason because its not the agreeable amount to what they wanted.

Melo is selfish, they are arrogant, life goes on.

really? exactly what we needed.. so what did we get with it? because until phil gets someone to come here how does he know exactly what was needed? come on.. you buying that crap? what should concern you is that phil did some double talking.. he put out there taking a substantial pay cut and he caved in, or whatever you call it, he didn't stick by what he said.. Technically it is a paycut, but in the spirit of taking a "paycut" it was a complete joke.. again it is akin to asking for a discount and me offering you a penny off and saying.. "well I offered you a discount as promised"...

Phil is known for being more of a straight shooter then a double talker. The substantial discount may have very well been the 6 mil saved. It may just be lower then your expectations. I am 100% sure that he and cap experts through the days of negotiation with Melo broke down how the 6mil helps the teams flexibility. The cap is projected to be 80 mil in 2 yrs I am sure all of these things have been thought out.

Its straight out of Phil's mouth that its what was needed and everything that was asked. Everything else is theories.

phil said that carmelo "sort of" did what was asked of him so far as a paycut. phil is not pleased.

I have no problems with people choosing to ignore facts. My problem is with people who attack others on a personal level for presenting the facts. Yes Phil did say that. And reports were he gave Melo 5 options. Unless I'm an idiot Melo took one that benefit himself more than the team

I guess you are an idiot ( your words not mine) because I'm sure the total max was on the table, no 6 million dollar discount. Melo passed on that to give the knicks some more flexability in yr 2. This is just getting so ridiculous!

when jackson says that melo "sort of" did what was asked of him that means that 5 payment scenarios were presented and melo rejected all five of them.

how else can this be interpreted... and yet you see it as melo's largesse. laughable

How do u know Melo rejected all 5 proposals??? I see it that Melo choose 1 of the 5 that Phil presented to him. Again u are making up a quote that Phil said "Melo sort of did what we wanted" Where does this come from ??? Show your source. I see "
Chris Herring ‏@HerringWSJ 2m
Phil suggests that Melo did take less money. "He did exactly what we asked him to," & that it may provide a little more wiggle room in 2015."

Phil stating Melo did EXACTLY what we asked him to do. Stop twisting the facts.

google "carmelo kind of did what we asked of him" and there are a bunch of sources, but for the record the exact quote from jackson is typically cryptic and jacksonian:
"“He did exactly what we kind of asked him to do,'' Jackson said. “Give us a break in the early part of the contract when we have some wiggle room — hopefully big enough wiggle room — next year when we can exploit it.''

"Carmelo kind of did what we asked of him" and "He did exactly what we kind of asked him to do" are 2 different things though. No way does it come close to meaning that he turned down all 5 options.

The "kind of asked him to do" sounds more like he is talking about the 5 options and the "he did exactly" sounds more like he picked one of the 5 options.

azamatbagatov wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:
i am not happy about stoudemire but he knew he was dead man walking-- and in fact i feel for the guy, since he came here as a free agent, had greater success than melo before coming here, and then was summarily shoved aside by the arrival of melo, who was dolan's signature move. his attitude must have been that, knowing he would be marginalized if not outright unwanted, that he was not going to be the good soldier and take a financial hit for a team that pretty much doesn't want him around. isn't that what you and 99% of the fan base thinking? this is the price of doing business as a franchise in disarray and chaos.

you might as well have asked all the dead men walking players during walsh's first two years to have done the same, including stephon dinglebury.

well did you? and did you begrudge them getting paid in full?

hypocrites will have a hard time contending with what i just laid out in plain english and logically. you're more than welcome to give it a try.

Again - you make it pretty difficult to take anything you post seriously.

Fact - Amare was damaged goods even before he signed here as a Free Agent. Amare was breaking down even before Melo was acquired.

Fact - Amare was brought in as a Free Agent at a great cost to the Knicks who traded multiple first round picks and gave away players in order to sign Amare

Fact - Amare would have been "shoved aside" had the Knicks original plan played out.......to sign Amare in order to lure LBJ.

Fact - I've never begrudged anyone getting paid in full.....ever.

Fact - you seem to have a problem with athletes getting paid as evidenced by your constant posting on the topic even calculating how much Melo makes per minute.

Fact - the "Dead Men Walking" as you indicate in your post have nothing to do with anything being discussed (Amare restructuring & Melo taking less)......you are only bringing those variable into your post as a misdirecting statement because you really have nothing valid to offer in this conversation except for your subjective (and seemingly tainted) opinion.

Fact - by making the statement "hypocrites will have a hard time contending ......" you are name calling using a passive aggressive/indirect technique - you do this often and it is why so few people on this board can stand your posts.

It would be nice if Melo took much less for the team. But it is no different than any other player also taking much less for the team - so let's not make it out to be that one guy is an ogre and everyone else is a saint.

hmmm... let's see....

your first assertion was fact, but i prefer that some facts be put in context, like for instance that the owner had placed a mandate that his team bring in two big names, the priority being lebron james.

with this priority in mind your second assertion is false, laughably so.

as is your third assertion.

your fourth assertion is not a fact it is an accusation masked as an opinion. that said, i begrudge people getting paid in full when they only do half the job required of them when the goal is winning titles.

and yes i do have a problem with athletes getting paid so much that they hurt their own chances at winning. melo is dumb that way, very dumb.

my dead man walking is the heart of the matter vis a vis complaining about stoudemire taking less for the sake of the knicks. that you want to dismiss it makes me question your reading comprehension.

the last fact regarding hypocrisy stands-- as evidenced by your weak sauce response to my post. nothing passive about it.

melo was in a position to do what was best for the knicks, a golden opportunity to redeem himslef and buy some goodwill capital from the fanbase.

he blew it.

So you think Melo should take a $10 million a yr pay cut to help the team bring in another star or 2.

What planet are you from DK, no other star is doing this, and please dont say LBJ, because if Kobe and KD were on board to join melo, I'm certain he would would have sacrifice. But thats not the case, and If you want me to, I can pull a number of Interviews where Melo has said it can't be all about him taking all the shots, and the next day when woods ws tol that, he basically ignore that and continued to run him into the ground.

You and TKF are in a minority here with this hating business, and thinking melo is damn near a forth option, you really have to open your mind up

the hate is funny. Its not Melo, its Bosh, Chandler Parsons, etc etc.. its the game. NBA has always been this way. The CBA is literally set up for teams to overpay to keep their own talent.

Melo did exactly what Phil asked him to. Thats from Phil's mouth. Let the man go built his team.

Phil doesn't know what he's doing, obviously. His stupidity in building teams around one-way players continues...
It's a shame, really.

All those rings will turn out to be a mirage, just you wait and see.

We are definitely in for another 5 years of fool's gold.

yea, how many teams have Phil built? I know he has coached some championship teams, and he has played on some.. but how many has he built?

for that matter Isiah has rings.. .how well did he do building the knicks a contender? I guess he knew what he was doing right? I am sure you were a huge isiah supporter right down to the end.. because he had rings, and obviously that means you can build champions... right? I mean those Isiah years were just great, hell I even remember the championship parade... I am sure there was one.. because to believe otherwise would just mean I am a Hater.. right?

Wow, this guy just compared Phil to Isiah! I don't see an epic failure like bankrupting the CBA on Phil's resume before coming here, do you? After Isiah's playing days ended, him being successful at any job he was employed at also came to end. After Phil's playing days ended, he has been the most successful coach to ever sit on the bench. Whether he was the best or not is another argument, but he was the most successful. I would think he deserves more than 3 months with a capped out team, no picks and disaster of a roster to mold a team before being mentioned in the same sentence as Isiah or his tenure being a failure.

I don't like that he gave Melo as much money as he did but I plan giving him some time on the job before the doom and gloom starts

WOW no I didn't... where is the comparison... I said if we are going to assume having rings makes you a good GM, then by all acoounts Isiah should have been Great as well... so where is the comparison?

After Phil's playing days ended, he has been the most successful coach to ever sit on the bench.

And please show me where that is in question? by anyone on this site...

now, I ask you.. where does being a Great coach mean you will be a Great GM? and where does having rings translate into being a great GM?

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

dk7th wrote:

BigRedDog wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

tkf wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:
i am not happy about stoudemire but he knew he was dead man walking-- and in fact i feel for the guy, since he came here as a free agent, had greater success than melo before coming here, and then was summarily shoved aside by the arrival of melo, who was dolan's signature move. his attitude must have been that, knowing he would be marginalized if not outright unwanted, that he was not going to be the good soldier and take a financial hit for a team that pretty much doesn't want him around. isn't that what you and 99% of the fan base thinking? this is the price of doing business as a franchise in disarray and chaos.

you might as well have asked all the dead men walking players during walsh's first two years to have done the same, including stephon dinglebury.

well did you? and did you begrudge them getting paid in full?

hypocrites will have a hard time contending with what i just laid out in plain english and logically. you're more than welcome to give it a try.

Again - you make it pretty difficult to take anything you post seriously.

Fact - Amare was damaged goods even before he signed here as a Free Agent. Amare was breaking down even before Melo was acquired.

Fact - Amare was brought in as a Free Agent at a great cost to the Knicks who traded multiple first round picks and gave away players in order to sign Amare

Fact - Amare would have been "shoved aside" had the Knicks original plan played out.......to sign Amare in order to lure LBJ.

Fact - I've never begrudged anyone getting paid in full.....ever.

Fact - you seem to have a problem with athletes getting paid as evidenced by your constant posting on the topic even calculating how much Melo makes per minute.

Fact - the "Dead Men Walking" as you indicate in your post have nothing to do with anything being discussed (Amare restructuring & Melo taking less)......you are only bringing those variable into your post as a misdirecting statement because you really have nothing valid to offer in this conversation except for your subjective (and seemingly tainted) opinion.

Fact - by making the statement "hypocrites will have a hard time contending ......" you are name calling using a passive aggressive/indirect technique - you do this often and it is why so few people on this board can stand your posts.

It would be nice if Melo took much less for the team. But it is no different than any other player also taking much less for the team - so let's not make it out to be that one guy is an ogre and everyone else is a saint.

hmmm... let's see....

your first assertion was fact, but i prefer that some facts be put in context, like for instance that the owner had placed a mandate that his team bring in two big names, the priority being lebron james.

with this priority in mind your second assertion is false, laughably so.

as is your third assertion.

your fourth assertion is not a fact it is an accusation masked as an opinion. that said, i begrudge people getting paid in full when they only do half the job required of them when the goal is winning titles.

and yes i do have a problem with athletes getting paid so much that they hurt their own chances at winning. melo is dumb that way, very dumb.

my dead man walking is the heart of the matter vis a vis complaining about stoudemire taking less for the sake of the knicks. that you want to dismiss it makes me question your reading comprehension.

the last fact regarding hypocrisy stands-- as evidenced by your weak sauce response to my post. nothing passive about it.

melo was in a position to do what was best for the knicks, a golden opportunity to redeem himslef and buy some goodwill capital from the fanbase.

he blew it.

So you think Melo should take a $10 million a yr pay cut to help the team bring in another star or 2.

What planet are you from DK, no other star is doing this, and please dont say LBJ, because if Kobe and KD were on board to join melo, I'm certain he would would have sacrifice. But thats not the case, and If you want me to, I can pull a number of Interviews where Melo has said it can't be all about him taking all the shots, and the next day when woods ws tol that, he basically ignore that and continued to run him into the ground.

You and TKF are in a minority here with this hating business, and thinking melo is damn near a forth option, you really have to open your mind up

I don't know why we are begging TKF, DK, Bonn and others to change. They have long showed there colors and are who they are. Phil Jackson obviously wanted Melo to stay and was a big part of Phil's plans. But since its not what they wanted its because Phil caved. Like they can't comprehend the possibilities of Phil actually believing Melo is a star player.

Its not like Phil built up credibility with the Bulls and Lakers to have major influence in personnel decisions after winning all those championships with them. All he did was coach and making personnel decisions is all new to him as a President(sarcasm). Phil says the discount amount was exactly what was needed but that's only a spin with no facts to back it up and for no other reason because its not the agreeable amount to what they wanted.

Melo is selfish, they are arrogant, life goes on.

really? exactly what we needed.. so what did we get with it? because until phil gets someone to come here how does he know exactly what was needed? come on.. you buying that crap? what should concern you is that phil did some double talking.. he put out there taking a substantial pay cut and he caved in, or whatever you call it, he didn't stick by what he said.. Technically it is a paycut, but in the spirit of taking a "paycut" it was a complete joke.. again it is akin to asking for a discount and me offering you a penny off and saying.. "well I offered you a discount as promised"...

Phil is known for being more of a straight shooter then a double talker. The substantial discount may have very well been the 6 mil saved. It may just be lower then your expectations. I am 100% sure that he and cap experts through the days of negotiation with Melo broke down how the 6mil helps the teams flexibility. The cap is projected to be 80 mil in 2 yrs I am sure all of these things have been thought out.

Its straight out of Phil's mouth that its what was needed and everything that was asked. Everything else is theories.

phil said that carmelo "sort of" did what was asked of him so far as a paycut. phil is not pleased.

I have no problems with people choosing to ignore facts. My problem is with people who attack others on a personal level for presenting the facts. Yes Phil did say that. And reports were he gave Melo 5 options. Unless I'm an idiot Melo took one that benefit himself more than the team

I guess you are an idiot ( your words not mine) because I'm sure the total max was on the table, no 6 million dollar discount. Melo passed on that to give the knicks some more flexability in yr 2. This is just getting so ridiculous!

when jackson says that melo "sort of" did what was asked of him that means that 5 payment scenarios were presented and melo rejected all five of them.

how else can this be interpreted... and yet you see it as melo's largesse. laughable

How do u know Melo rejected all 5 proposals??? I see it that Melo choose 1 of the 5 that Phil presented to him. Again u are making up a quote that Phil said "Melo sort of did what we wanted" Where does this come from ??? Show your source. I see "
Chris Herring ‏@HerringWSJ 2m
Phil suggests that Melo did take less money. "He did exactly what we asked him to," & that it may provide a little more wiggle room in 2015."

Phil stating Melo did EXACTLY what we asked him to do. Stop twisting the facts.

google "carmelo kind of did what we asked of him" and there are a bunch of sources, but for the record the exact quote from jackson is typically cryptic and jacksonian:
"“He did exactly what we kind of asked him to do,'' Jackson said. “Give us a break in the early part of the contract when we have some wiggle room — hopefully big enough wiggle room — next year when we can exploit it.''

"Carmelo kind of did what we asked of him" and "He did exactly what we kind of asked him to do" are 2 different things though. No way does it come close to meaning that he turned down all 5 options.

The "kind of asked him to do" sounds more like he is talking about the 5 options and the "he did exactly" sounds more like he picked one of the 5 options.

It's a vague, grammatically ridiculous sentence

I agree