Jmpasq wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

babyKnicks wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Nice post by everyone. Deep down inside you know that he is coming back to New York. It's a done deal.

unless its for a decent paycut most of us wont share your enthusiasm. Sorry papabear

Correction. A few would not share. I with papa!

I want the Knicks to get Melo back so I guess "I with papa" too.

I want him back to. Not because I know in my heart he's taking us to a title. Not because he's the savior. Not because I spoon his poster at night. In fact the only Melo anything I have is a give away t-shirt that Marv gave me one night I was too drunk to go home and I crashed on his couch. Ive since cut the sleaves off that shirt and use it to the gym, so I guess you could say the shoulders are shot but that shirt is going strong.

No, I want Melo back because he's an impact player who produces and its strikes me as utterly insane to let a guy as talented and as productive as him walk to gain "flexibility." The same flexibility we used to lure Amare and Joe Johnson here. Oh wait...

With MElo here and no clue from management we still advanced once and made the playoffs 3 atraight years and won 54 two seasons ago. I expect better results with new management. I also expect (already seeing this) a legit pipeline and players that compliment, rather than complicate. I look forward to winning the Atlantic again next year and punching a certain Raptor's fan in the nuts for fun along the way. Thats what I see. Thats what I want.

Fish you should be melo's agent

I dont even love his game. Like Phil, the Mavs, Lakers, Rockets, Bulls, etc... I see him for what he is and what he can do for the Knicks. You just dont let 28/7 walk for flexibility. He's just too talented to lose. Also even as he gets older teams with assets pay if he's healthy. Look at what Pierce and KG got. The only concern is he gets hurt and thats not a concern in the NBA. You pay and hope he stays as healthy as he's been over the years.

Our young guys will look a lot better playing next to him. Fisher's job is easier. Phil's job is easier. Bring MElo back. Bring in another stud next year. Keep building through the draft and adding young pieces... the team's prior mistakes were no because Melo was here. They were because the people making the decisions sucked.

I know others feel different. Thats ok. I understand the want to move on from this player. I also remember the same with Ewing.. lets usher in the new era of uptempo more athletic bla bla bla. I just want to see the Knicks win. Much easier with Melo here IMO. I think we go back to winning 50 and the Atlantic next year if he stays. Even as currently constructed.

Except Garnetts contract was worth 12 million not 26 million. Melos contract makes sense for some teams not the Knicks. The Knicks dont have the young core to offset Melos money. Dont give me THJ,Larkin, Early and the Greek as a young core. They are at best rotation players

when Garnett was traded to Boston he was making $23.7mm and was 31 years old.

So Melo walks.. your in the "now we have cap space to sign max stars" camp I assume? If thats the case OK, but who are these guys we are signing? If the Knicks have Melo and win 50 games next year they will still be able to add a max guy with Amare and Bargs coming off the books. A full $20mm a year guy. I would think coming to a 50 win team would attract a bigtime player. Thats Phil and Fisher's challenge. However without Melo its looking like a 35ish win season at best. Can you tell me the last time star player(s) signed big contracts with a losing team? Amare? Joe Johnson (I think Deron was already there). Are those the type of guys your shooting for?

Im not saying its a 1 year fix. The problem is another 20m guy wont be enough for the Knicks to win. If I thought Melo and another 20m guy would be enough Id be fine with it but its not. I would like to see the Knicks add draft picks and young players build a team. Carmelo will not bring NY a championship as the best player on the team and we arent going to be able to acquire the young talent to balance his over inflated contract as a 5 or 6 seed.

This makes zero sense. Can you spell it out? So with Melo and another star we have no chance of winning a title. But without Melo we can? I would love to know your plan to get another guy of Melo's caliber, much less multiple guys. By Melo's caliber I mean all NBA and makes the all star game every year. Or when Melo resigns is Phil going on vacation for the rest of the summer as his work is done? Show me your model or another team's plan you want to emulate. Im not seeing your logic.

I didnt say the Knicks would be competing for titles immediately but there is a mountain of evidence suggesting that paying Melo is not the way to build a championship team so why continue to go down the same path. I also believe Melo has 2 seasons before his game takes a serious downturn and we will be stuck paying a 26 million dollar spot up shooter. Look we have different views on how good Melo is I see him as a 5 year 80 million dollar player basically 50 million less than what he is going to get.That to me is horrible use of limited assets

If your plan to win a title isnt immediate then it makes even more sense to sign him. Like the Lakers do you rebuild while you win. Look at ALL the moves since Melo got here, and the Knicks with all that ineptitude still made the playoffs 3/4 times (first losing record in Melo's NBA career btw). Why does having MElo here mean Phil cant use the draft and make good trades as he did with Dallas?

If you want a tank I hear you, but thats a blueprint that yields even less than trying to win a title with a flawed player.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

babyKnicks wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Nice post by everyone. Deep down inside you know that he is coming back to New York. It's a done deal.

unless its for a decent paycut most of us wont share your enthusiasm. Sorry papabear

Correction. A few would not share. I with papa!

I want the Knicks to get Melo back so I guess "I with papa" too.

I want him back to. Not because I know in my heart he's taking us to a title. Not because he's the savior. Not because I spoon his poster at night. In fact the only Melo anything I have is a give away t-shirt that Marv gave me one night I was too drunk to go home and I crashed on his couch. Ive since cut the sleaves off that shirt and use it to the gym, so I guess you could say the shoulders are shot but that shirt is going strong.

No, I want Melo back because he's an impact player who produces and its strikes me as utterly insane to let a guy as talented and as productive as him walk to gain "flexibility." The same flexibility we used to lure Amare and Joe Johnson here. Oh wait...

With MElo here and no clue from management we still advanced once and made the playoffs 3 atraight years and won 54 two seasons ago. I expect better results with new management. I also expect (already seeing this) a legit pipeline and players that compliment, rather than complicate. I look forward to winning the Atlantic again next year and punching a certain Raptor's fan in the nuts for fun along the way. Thats what I see. Thats what I want.

Fish you should be melo's agent

I dont even love his game. Like Phil, the Mavs, Lakers, Rockets, Bulls, etc... I see him for what he is and what he can do for the Knicks. You just dont let 28/7 walk for flexibility. He's just too talented to lose. Also even as he gets older teams with assets pay if he's healthy. Look at what Pierce and KG got. The only concern is he gets hurt and thats not a concern in the NBA. You pay and hope he stays as healthy as he's been over the years.

Our young guys will look a lot better playing next to him. Fisher's job is easier. Phil's job is easier. Bring MElo back. Bring in another stud next year. Keep building through the draft and adding young pieces... the team's prior mistakes were no because Melo was here. They were because the people making the decisions sucked.

I know others feel different. Thats ok. I understand the want to move on from this player. I also remember the same with Ewing.. lets usher in the new era of uptempo more athletic bla bla bla. I just want to see the Knicks win. Much easier with Melo here IMO. I think we go back to winning 50 and the Atlantic next year if he stays. Even as currently constructed.

You cant compare Ewing to melo. Ewing at least had success in the playoffs despite not winning a ring. I try to be fair with melo. He is a top 3 scorer a great rebounder for his position he also can be a good passer but he isn't a willing passer. Now his flaws are defense, not getting other involved, and he hasn't had success in the postseason. I don't dislike the guy but im sorry he isn't worth 129 million in his 30's when we need the cap space to build a long term good team

My biggest MO for keeping Melo is we win games. Can you show me one star FA who left his team to go sign with a losing team? Maybe Dwight Howard? Who is taking the Knicks money?

Jmpasq wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

fishmike wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:

babyKnicks wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

Nice post by everyone. Deep down inside you know that he is coming back to New York. It's a done deal.

unless its for a decent paycut most of us wont share your enthusiasm. Sorry papabear

Correction. A few would not share. I with papa!

I want the Knicks to get Melo back so I guess "I with papa" too.

I want him back to. Not because I know in my heart he's taking us to a title. Not because he's the savior. Not because I spoon his poster at night. In fact the only Melo anything I have is a give away t-shirt that Marv gave me one night I was too drunk to go home and I crashed on his couch. Ive since cut the sleaves off that shirt and use it to the gym, so I guess you could say the shoulders are shot but that shirt is going strong.

No, I want Melo back because he's an impact player who produces and its strikes me as utterly insane to let a guy as talented and as productive as him walk to gain "flexibility." The same flexibility we used to lure Amare and Joe Johnson here. Oh wait...

With MElo here and no clue from management we still advanced once and made the playoffs 3 atraight years and won 54 two seasons ago. I expect better results with new management. I also expect (already seeing this) a legit pipeline and players that compliment, rather than complicate. I look forward to winning the Atlantic again next year and punching a certain Raptor's fan in the nuts for fun along the way. Thats what I see. Thats what I want.

Fish you should be melo's agent

I dont even love his game. Like Phil, the Mavs, Lakers, Rockets, Bulls, etc... I see him for what he is and what he can do for the Knicks. You just dont let 28/7 walk for flexibility. He's just too talented to lose. Also even as he gets older teams with assets pay if he's healthy. Look at what Pierce and KG got. The only concern is he gets hurt and thats not a concern in the NBA. You pay and hope he stays as healthy as he's been over the years.

Our young guys will look a lot better playing next to him. Fisher's job is easier. Phil's job is easier. Bring MElo back. Bring in another stud next year. Keep building through the draft and adding young pieces... the team's prior mistakes were no because Melo was here. They were because the people making the decisions sucked.

I know others feel different. Thats ok. I understand the want to move on from this player. I also remember the same with Ewing.. lets usher in the new era of uptempo more athletic bla bla bla. I just want to see the Knicks win. Much easier with Melo here IMO. I think we go back to winning 50 and the Atlantic next year if he stays. Even as currently constructed.

Except Garnetts contract was worth 12 million not 26 million. Melos contract makes sense for some teams not the Knicks. The Knicks dont have the young core to offset Melos money. Dont give me THJ,Larkin, Early and the Greek as a young core. They are at best rotation players

when Garnett was traded to Boston he was making $23.7mm and was 31 years old.

So Melo walks.. your in the "now we have cap space to sign max stars" camp I assume? If thats the case OK, but who are these guys we are signing? If the Knicks have Melo and win 50 games next year they will still be able to add a max guy with Amare and Bargs coming off the books. A full $20mm a year guy. I would think coming to a 50 win team would attract a bigtime player. Thats Phil and Fisher's challenge. However without Melo its looking like a 35ish win season at best. Can you tell me the last time star player(s) signed big contracts with a losing team? Amare? Joe Johnson (I think Deron was already there). Are those the type of guys your shooting for?

Im not saying its a 1 year fix. The problem is another 20m guy wont be enough for the Knicks to win. If I thought Melo and another 20m guy would be enough Id be fine with it but its not. I would like to see the Knicks add draft picks and young players build a team. Carmelo will not bring NY a championship as the best player on the team and we arent going to be able to acquire the young talent to balance his over inflated contract as a 5 or 6 seed.

This makes zero sense. Can you spell it out? So with Melo and another star we have no chance of winning a title. But without Melo we can? I would love to know your plan to get another guy of Melo's caliber, much less multiple guys. By Melo's caliber I mean all NBA and makes the all star game every year. Or when Melo resigns is Phil going on vacation for the rest of the summer as his work is done? Show me your model or another team's plan you want to emulate. Im not seeing your logic.

I didnt say the Knicks would be competing for titles immediately but there is a mountain of evidence suggesting that paying Melo is not the way to build a championship team so why continue to go down the same path. I also believe Melo has 2 seasons before his game takes a serious downturn and we will be stuck paying a 26 million dollar spot up shooter. Look we have different views on how good Melo is I see him as a 5 year 80 million dollar player basically 50 million less than what he is going to get.That to me is horrible use of limited assets

azamatbagatov wrote:Cap Flexibility isn't just used to sign free agents. You can combine it with assets (picks, young controllable players) to make a trade to bring a star player who wants off their current team as well as have cap space to sign free agents. It's not that black and white.

I guess yea.. if we had cap space would could be players for Jeremy Lin right now also.

Im goood... Ill stick with bringing back the HOF guy and trusting my GM to improve the team.

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:fishmike you will keep repeating 28/7 as though the league looks the other way at his miserable playoff record, which remains among the worst if not the worst since he began his career. so he has suitors-- since when does the desire correlate with winning titles? it doesn't. but i have seen what he's done here in new york and if he lands with another team then that will be good for new york.

carmelo is incorrigible but there will always be some "neighborhood chick" who believes he is worth the trouble to turn into a winner.

jackson knows better which is why he wants to hold melo to the discount melo himself volunteered but is now reneging on. (do you like that he is reneging?) whatever he ends up being paid in new york it will still be too much.

Pretty sure the Bulls, Rockets, Mavs and Lakers looked the other way. But those are NBA cellar dwelling franchises who dont care about winning, just selling some tickets right? Dude one half of your brain literally makes up bullsh!t, the other half of your brain believes it.

Those teams have players better than Melo on the roster already.

you are going to get <crickets> from him on that one. but his insult had value! too bad he didn't make it up himself.

nice to see you took TFK's junk out of your mouth long enough to visit ultimateknicks and grace us with your hoops knowledge.

dude you're still on tilt. take it down a notch.

but to Jmpasq's point-- nobody is going to willingly come to new york for less money than melo makes.

because in order to win a title with melo, this mystery player would have to be a better player, and compensated better than melo will be.

it makes far more sense for melo to leave for a better team and at a lesser amount.

he is not going to win in new york by getting the max-- so if he does he is saying money means more than winning.

the end.

and he'd have to want to come join our .450 team!

did you tatoo that to your arm? Luckily, unlike you, the rest of the NBA can see Melo has had one losing season in the NBA despite a revolving cast of supporting characters. Want to get into predicting win totals again? Go ahead Bonn.. hang your ass out there. Melo comes back we are a .450 team next year? .500? .550? Do tell... you quote that .450 like its gospel. When Melo resigns are you going to keep harping on that .450 number? Do tell...

Oh, I can see too that his teams have consistently played at the .550 level - both in games he's in and in games he misses due to injury.
Predictions? I'll look at the statistical models and wait until the off-season is done but this looks like a sub .500 team to me right now even with Melo.

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:fishmike you will keep repeating 28/7 as though the league looks the other way at his miserable playoff record, which remains among the worst if not the worst since he began his career. so he has suitors-- since when does the desire correlate with winning titles? it doesn't. but i have seen what he's done here in new york and if he lands with another team then that will be good for new york.

carmelo is incorrigible but there will always be some "neighborhood chick" who believes he is worth the trouble to turn into a winner.

jackson knows better which is why he wants to hold melo to the discount melo himself volunteered but is now reneging on. (do you like that he is reneging?) whatever he ends up being paid in new york it will still be too much.

Pretty sure the Bulls, Rockets, Mavs and Lakers looked the other way. But those are NBA cellar dwelling franchises who dont care about winning, just selling some tickets right? Dude one half of your brain literally makes up bullsh!t, the other half of your brain believes it.

Those teams have players better than Melo on the roster already.

you are going to get <crickets> from him on that one. but his insult had value! too bad he didn't make it up himself.

nice to see you took TFK's junk out of your mouth long enough to visit ultimateknicks and grace us with your hoops knowledge.

dude you're still on tilt. take it down a notch.

but to Jmpasq's point-- nobody is going to willingly come to new york for less money than melo makes.

because in order to win a title with melo, this mystery player would have to be a better player, and compensated better than melo will be.

it makes far more sense for melo to leave for a better team and at a lesser amount.

he is not going to win in new york by getting the max-- so if he does he is saying money means more than winning.

the end.

and he'd have to want to come join our .450 team!

did you tatoo that to your arm? Luckily, unlike you, the rest of the NBA can see Melo has had one losing season in the NBA despite a revolving cast of supporting characters. Want to get into predicting win totals again? Go ahead Bonn.. hang your ass out there. Melo comes back we are a .450 team next year? .500? .550? Do tell... you quote that .450 like its gospel. When Melo resigns are you going to keep harping on that .450 number? Do tell...

Oh, I can see too that his teams have consistently played at the .550 level - both in games he's in and in games he misses due to injury.
Predictions? I'll look at the statistical models and wait until the off-season is done but this looks like a sub .500 team to me right now even with Melo.

noted

What is your prediction with Melo in the lineup as it stands now?

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:fishmike you will keep repeating 28/7 as though the league looks the other way at his miserable playoff record, which remains among the worst if not the worst since he began his career. so he has suitors-- since when does the desire correlate with winning titles? it doesn't. but i have seen what he's done here in new york and if he lands with another team then that will be good for new york.

carmelo is incorrigible but there will always be some "neighborhood chick" who believes he is worth the trouble to turn into a winner.

jackson knows better which is why he wants to hold melo to the discount melo himself volunteered but is now reneging on. (do you like that he is reneging?) whatever he ends up being paid in new york it will still be too much.

Pretty sure the Bulls, Rockets, Mavs and Lakers looked the other way. But those are NBA cellar dwelling franchises who dont care about winning, just selling some tickets right? Dude one half of your brain literally makes up bullsh!t, the other half of your brain believes it.

Those teams have players better than Melo on the roster already.

Which means what? What does that have to do with retaining and adding talent? Please tell me who Melo is keeping us from adding or adding. Please tell me what strategy Melo is keeping you from executing. Honestly I want to hear your plan.

As you notice fish there isn't "championship" plan that comes along with losing Melo. The dump Melo crowd's hope is to get lucky in free agency just by having cap space or get lucky with a lottery pick or 2 just by being in the lottery. While the keep Melo crowd is looking to create an environment where free agents are eager to come to and to create an environment where young players no matter where they are drafted can contribute and build up value in a playoff atmosphere.

An unspoken possibility would be Melo getting resigned & Marc getting signed next yr. Make the playoffs and compete for the next 5 yrs. Then we have major cap space again. Since they have made the playoffs and competed for the last 5 yrs a big time free agent would now like to pair up with Melo and Gasol who could look at cheaper contracts as they are now at that age. Phil has also now over the yrs built up a strong pipeline of young talent allowing Melo & Gasol needed rest to stay healthy as well as a deep team. Melo and Gasol now become 2nd-3rd-4th options on a deep team.

Listening to Steve A. Smith early he also broke down that Melo and Lebron are extremely close and that Melo was supposed to be the 3rd cog in the Miami wheel ahead of Bosh. But Melo went for the extra yr in the contract against Lebron's wishes and Lebron has been throwing that in Melo's face for a while. So having Melo on the Knicks is one of the very very few paths that creates interest in Lebron wanting to come to the Knicks. As they will as some point in there careers look to play together.

You're talking about Melo in his eighteenth season?! Have you really thought this through?

Yep he would be 35 or 36 and depending on how his career plays out a 2nd-3rd-4th option.

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:fishmike you will keep repeating 28/7 as though the league looks the other way at his miserable playoff record, which remains among the worst if not the worst since he began his career. so he has suitors-- since when does the desire correlate with winning titles? it doesn't. but i have seen what he's done here in new york and if he lands with another team then that will be good for new york.

carmelo is incorrigible but there will always be some "neighborhood chick" who believes he is worth the trouble to turn into a winner.

jackson knows better which is why he wants to hold melo to the discount melo himself volunteered but is now reneging on. (do you like that he is reneging?) whatever he ends up being paid in new york it will still be too much.

Pretty sure the Bulls, Rockets, Mavs and Lakers looked the other way. But those are NBA cellar dwelling franchises who dont care about winning, just selling some tickets right? Dude one half of your brain literally makes up bullsh!t, the other half of your brain believes it.

Those teams have players better than Melo on the roster already.

Which means what? What does that have to do with retaining and adding talent? Please tell me who Melo is keeping us from adding or adding. Please tell me what strategy Melo is keeping you from executing. Honestly I want to hear your plan.

As you notice fish there isn't "championship" plan that comes along with losing Melo. The dump Melo crowd's hope is to get lucky in free agency just by having cap space or get lucky with a lottery pick or 2 just by being in the lottery. While the keep Melo crowd is looking to create an environment where free agents are eager to come to and to create an environment where young players no matter where they are drafted can contribute and build up value in a playoff atmosphere.

An unspoken possibility would be Melo getting resigned & Marc getting signed next yr. Make the playoffs and compete for the next 5 yrs. Then we have major cap space again. Since they have made the playoffs and competed for the last 5 yrs a big time free agent would now like to pair up with Melo and Gasol who could look at cheaper contracts as they are now at that age. Phil has also now over the yrs built up a strong pipeline of young talent allowing Melo & Gasol needed rest to stay healthy as well as a deep team. Melo and Gasol now become 2nd-3rd-4th options on a deep team.

Listening to Steve A. Smith early he also broke down that Melo and Lebron are extremely close and that Melo was supposed to be the 3rd cog in the Miami wheel ahead of Bosh. But Melo went for the extra yr in the contract against Lebron's wishes and Lebron has been throwing that in Melo's face for a while. So having Melo on the Knicks is one of the very very few paths that creates interest in Lebron wanting to come to the Knicks. As they will as some point in there careers look to play together.

lebron wants the max so where does that leave melo? truth time!

To take less money, if not then he will have to wait until he is on his last legs/contract which is possible.