To some its been menitoned Kidds ring helped with 54 wins. Didn't happen before, or after him.
How is he as a coach? Hard to measure with that team. He was coach of the month once or twice. Seems to have gotten good marks.

So we consider how we might have been without Tyson? Who mans the middle?

So what got some in a bind about Kerr making that kind of scratch as if somehow its coming out of our tax dollars?

Is it the hype he is getting or the potentially bloated salary? If he is not eating cap, I really don't care.
Doc and MJax got their chance and did good with it.

Knicks have been slow to overpay Steve Kerr in deal length or salary, sources say. Tried treating him closer to 1st-time coach than a star.

- Adrian Wojnarowski

holfresh wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

holfresh wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

holfresh wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

holfresh wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

holfresh wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

holfresh wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

holfresh wrote:The bottom line is this..Phil is overpaid and now Kerr is asking to be overpaid as well...If we are supposedly trying to change the culture and ask players to take less in efforts to build a winning situation, their arguments don't seem credible whether or not it has salary cap impact...They are showing the first opportunity offered, they are making a money grab...But you are asking players to sacrifice...

i agree on the $ aspect to a point on the FO side. thats a lot to drop on an unknown. however, how it relates to players i dont get your view. anthony gets maxed, this team is cooked. you acknowledge the sal cap for players but you seem unwilling to make the split between payment structure that has no cap and one that does. the FO might bother you but it shouldnt have any bearing on the player cap. the player cap must be followed and if they dont handle it well, it doesnt matter if the coach gets 1mill or 10, the team will most likely struggle.

i dont imagine you are arguing paying the coach 500k maxing melo and lets go right? if kerr/mjack/etc come in at 1mill a year is this all a non issue for you? or is it bothering you more about how this relates to anthony.

Again, you are not sending a credible message of sacrifice to players if you are doing a money grab yourself..Salary cap or no salary cap...

so as a player who might want to stay, knows that if he gets maxed, he probably wont win here, he needs even more guidance from the FO to see this point?

anthony could simply not opt out then, see how the first year goes and then decide on a direction. he forced this issue, or will, by opting out. he put it out there he will take a pay cut. now cuz the FO ***might*** pay out for a coach, he should do something diff?
what has changed in terms of the teams sal cap by the coaches pay? does he want to win in ny or not? he most likely wont if he stays at max. no guarantee he wins if he takes a pay cut. thems the breaks though... hes takin a gamble at his next decision no matter what.

Melo is concerned about his legacy and will likely take less elsewhere...If I can sniff out a money grab and draw the conclusion of Culture Change rhetoric is all BS as management try to max out their own deals...I think players can and will draw the same conclusion...

Lol, your sense of smell was great during the Isiah error.

You have an agenda here and have had one since the day Phil got hired. Just can't figure out what it is

Ha, reaching back to the Isiah days again??.. How was I with Donnie and MDA??...Don't try to hard to figure my agenda is, you might hurt yourself...

Yeah, because you were so horribly wrong every step of the way. You were willing and able to give Isiah every opportunity to the burn the franchise to the ground (he did) with each move you blindly cheered on. Not a hint of this new found skeptism and sense of smell. It reeks of someone with an agenda

So was I wrong about Donnie and MDA??

No clue, I wasn't here often during their tenure. If I had to guess, I would say yeah based on your brutal track record.

Or you were against everything they did because you were butthurt about Isiah getting ****canned

So you got a good view the two years I was posting during Isiah's tenure and completely missed the last 6 years I was posting..Then feel u can accurately give an account of my track record...And I'm the one with an agenda....

I'm not the only poster questioning you on it or mentioning words like "credability" when it comes to you.

Here is the thing...I always give reasoning for my thoughts...I don't rail against GM's and coaches simply because I like the previous guy who failed or coach or whatever..If you paid attention to what I was saying then you might have gather that...I was against the MDA hire for specific reasons...I was against giving Amare 100 mil over 5 years for specific reasons...U might not be familiar with the term nuance in liking the Phil hire but not his system and his lackeys...Donnie end up sucking but U don't see me running around the forum pointing fingers to his supporters or at MDA's supporters...That's JV, but isn't beneath you...Speaks volumes of the character...I don't mind getting into a little back and forth about hoops, it's why I joined this forum...You have zero track record posting but don't mind poking your little head out your hole to take pot shots..U seemed to be fixated on me of late, no sweat tho...We can get it on about what ever topic yuou like including Isiah...Isiah ex-palyers have had a very good showing in post season, any comments on that???

Don't flatter yourself Mary. Nobody is fixated on you.

You have been killing a GM who was hired midseason (after the trade deadline) for weeks. Starting days after his hiring. He hasn't even had the opportunity to make a move before you have authored multiple posts ripping him before the regular season ended. It's so bad that one of the mods and guys that started the site told you that you are losing credibilty with each post.

Sure, Isiah's guys have been great. Especially Lamarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah. Do they count?

misterearl wrote:via twitter

Knicks have been slow to overpay Steve Kerr in deal length or salary, sources say. Tried treating him closer to 1st-time coach than a star.

- Adrian Wojnarowski

And Wojo feels how most people feel:

=======================================

Everywhere you look, reports say the Knicks and Steve Kerr are very close to reaching a pact that would make him the new head coach. We've been given yet another vague "beginning of the week" timetable and we've been told the Warriors have refocused their search (to more qualified coaches). So if you're left wondering what the hold-up is, it's exactly what you expect. Adrian Wojnarowski took to Twitter while you were sleeping:

Recall reports that said Kerr was seeking a long-term deal paying him up to $6 million per year, which is around what Mike D'Antoni got when he became Knicks head coach. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Knicks just pay that outright since coach money doesn't count against any salary cap and James Dolan is rich enough to find dozens of millions of dollars in coat pockets. It appears ownership (and this must be ownership, since Phil Jackson really wants Kerr and has no reason to care about his salary, right?) is pushing back, though, which is reasonable but potentially futile since: 1. Kerr seems to be Jackson's uncontested pick for this job 2. Kerr has other appealing opportunities awaiting if he balks.

Whatever. Layers of whatever. I don't know what to expect from Steve Kerr as a head coach, but if Phil Jackson really wants him, I suppose I'm on board. I like the idea of a coach and president in harmony, and Kerr is very well-regarded. And while I appreciate the idea that people should get paid based on their qualifications, I understand Kerr's got leverage here and don't care at all if James Dolan has to pony up the way he did to hire Jackson. When you do "searches" by aggressively targeting single individuals, these are the decisions you have to make.

If the Kerr negotiations are as far along as the papers say they are, I'd be surprised if the hiring isn't finalized in the next day or two. (But if this falls through? That wouldn't look so hot for the Dolan-Jackson partnership. But I suspect it won't fall through. But if it does! But it won't. But if it does...!?)

jrodmc wrote:

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:

martin wrote:

holfresh wrote:Sure it does, you are asking the guy with his face on the marquee to take a pay cut and sacrifice as you and your pal is doing a money grab...

One has nothing to do with the other. 2 words: Salary cap.

It has everything to do with the message you are sending...

If anything, here's the message: culture gonna change, front office and coach on same page, players are next. The base seems to be solid enough

.???...Culture change?.??..Are you kidding ?...Money grab my friend...No change there ...

the players are constrained by a salary cap.

that's apples.

the front office personnel are not constrained by a salary cap.

that's oranges.

if dolan wants to spend money on gm's and coaches it has zero to do with carmelo anthony's salary. if carmelo wishes to see this as apples to apples then he is even more of a moron and douchebag than i already suspect him to be.

you want to imply hypocrisy and double standards to a scenario that does not admit them, and all to justify melo getting paid max money when he clearly doesn't deserve it and it would also hurt the team from doing what it needs to do.

lighten up-- why are you afraid of the knicks moving in the right direction after the owner has admitted he did not know what he was doing all this time? you think he is getting played?

lastly, jackson himself said in so many words that whether melo stays or goes is not as important as the team moving according to a long term plan. it's melo's choice if he wants to participate and seeing what phil and kerr earn should not factor into that decision.

Eff your salary cap.

the players get paid money. Lots of it. Maybe melo's worth it, maybe he's not. That's apples.

The HOF Coach GM with no experience and the coach to be with no experience get paid money. That's apples.

The untried GM with all the rings gets to tell players to honor their word and take less money.
The untried coach gets to ask for half of what the untried GM is making. Nice. My boss makes 60, I should make 30. Based on what? Height in shoes?

It's called greed on either side of the lines.

Funny, this cap space line argument being used in UK land where all the occupants are so ready to jump up ugly on the "plantation" mentality on other issues.

Melo gets to test free agency after going to the playoffs for over a decade, and he's a greedy douchebag, oblivious and a moron.

The geniuses in the new front office with no experience doing their new jobs get to grab whatever price they can name in the name of culture change, and they're instantly relevant and market savvy, with high BB IQ's.

And other than greed, the only common denominator is our owner happens to retain his idiot troll status.

don't worry-- melo is not staying here with this bunch of greedy losers. after all what do 18 rings between the president and the gm really amount to anyway?

jackson can't coach so he will do the next best thing which is have somebody he can rely upon to carry out the institution of system basketball, the triangle offense. kerr played under jackson and alongside mike jordan. kerr played under popovich and alongside tim duncan.

he has zero pedigree because he was basically a sieve, retaining nothing of those experiences and is unable to transmit with any efficiency the precepts he never absorbed.

will you continue watching the knicks when melo walks?

Rings. Kerr's rings. That's funny. How's Tyson's ring working out for you? Kidd's ring? What exactly did IT's two rings get you?
Russell had 11 rings and couldn't coach his way out of a wet paper bag. Horry's got lotsa rings, and so does Worm. Why don't you give them a shot to coach?

He has zero pedigree because he hasn't coached your pickup team, let alone an NBA squad. Or doesn't that bother you?

You don't see the stupid incoherence of holding up a player as a greedy idiot and giving a neophyte GM/announcer a pass for requesting 30 million balloons to do a job he's never had at any level.

Again, I watched the knicks before you were out of pampers. Do you have fond memories of Louie Orr? Did you watch Greg Butler? Did you thrill to the fabulous moves of Ken the Animal Bannister? Yes, I will continue to watch (or listen to) the knicks if melo walks because I'm a knicks fan. I will continue to watch the knicks if Kerr coaches for $30 mill per game. I will continue to watch the knicks if they get renamed the Dolans.

Will you continue to whine like a hyena with PMS if melo signs? For less than a greedy loser would, even?

tyson is still playing. he won one ring so he has had some exposure to a culture that knows what it takes to win. kidd the same having won one ring and reaching two finals or is it three-- he's in the second round as a rookie coach. horry and rodman are misdirection rhetoric so no use in bringing them up, you tiresome dipshyte you.

you have never seen a title knick squad or you wouldn't carry on like a blood clot... of that i am certain.

azamatbagatov wrote:

holfresh wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

holfresh wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

holfresh wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

holfresh wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

holfresh wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

holfresh wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

holfresh wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

holfresh wrote:The bottom line is this..Phil is overpaid and now Kerr is asking to be overpaid as well...If we are supposedly trying to change the culture and ask players to take less in efforts to build a winning situation, their arguments don't seem credible whether or not it has salary cap impact...They are showing the first opportunity offered, they are making a money grab...But you are asking players to sacrifice...

i agree on the $ aspect to a point on the FO side. thats a lot to drop on an unknown. however, how it relates to players i dont get your view. anthony gets maxed, this team is cooked. you acknowledge the sal cap for players but you seem unwilling to make the split between payment structure that has no cap and one that does. the FO might bother you but it shouldnt have any bearing on the player cap. the player cap must be followed and if they dont handle it well, it doesnt matter if the coach gets 1mill or 10, the team will most likely struggle.

i dont imagine you are arguing paying the coach 500k maxing melo and lets go right? if kerr/mjack/etc come in at 1mill a year is this all a non issue for you? or is it bothering you more about how this relates to anthony.

Again, you are not sending a credible message of sacrifice to players if you are doing a money grab yourself..Salary cap or no salary cap...

so as a player who might want to stay, knows that if he gets maxed, he probably wont win here, he needs even more guidance from the FO to see this point?

anthony could simply not opt out then, see how the first year goes and then decide on a direction. he forced this issue, or will, by opting out. he put it out there he will take a pay cut. now cuz the FO ***might*** pay out for a coach, he should do something diff?
what has changed in terms of the teams sal cap by the coaches pay? does he want to win in ny or not? he most likely wont if he stays at max. no guarantee he wins if he takes a pay cut. thems the breaks though... hes takin a gamble at his next decision no matter what.

Melo is concerned about his legacy and will likely take less elsewhere...If I can sniff out a money grab and draw the conclusion of Culture Change rhetoric is all BS as management try to max out their own deals...I think players can and will draw the same conclusion...

Lol, your sense of smell was great during the Isiah error.

You have an agenda here and have had one since the day Phil got hired. Just can't figure out what it is

Ha, reaching back to the Isiah days again??.. How was I with Donnie and MDA??...Don't try to hard to figure my agenda is, you might hurt yourself...

Yeah, because you were so horribly wrong every step of the way. You were willing and able to give Isiah every opportunity to the burn the franchise to the ground (he did) with each move you blindly cheered on. Not a hint of this new found skeptism and sense of smell. It reeks of someone with an agenda

So was I wrong about Donnie and MDA??

No clue, I wasn't here often during their tenure. If I had to guess, I would say yeah based on your brutal track record.

Or you were against everything they did because you were butthurt about Isiah getting ****canned

So you got a good view the two years I was posting during Isiah's tenure and completely missed the last 6 years I was posting..Then feel u can accurately give an account of my track record...And I'm the one with an agenda....

I'm not the only poster questioning you on it or mentioning words like "credability" when it comes to you.

Here is the thing...I always give reasoning for my thoughts...I don't rail against GM's and coaches simply because I like the previous guy who failed or coach or whatever..If you paid attention to what I was saying then you might have gather that...I was against the MDA hire for specific reasons...I was against giving Amare 100 mil over 5 years for specific reasons...U might not be familiar with the term nuance in liking the Phil hire but not his system and his lackeys...Donnie end up sucking but U don't see me running around the forum pointing fingers to his supporters or at MDA's supporters...That's JV, but isn't beneath you...Speaks volumes of the character...I don't mind getting into a little back and forth about hoops, it's why I joined this forum...You have zero track record posting but don't mind poking your little head out your hole to take pot shots..U seemed to be fixated on me of late, no sweat tho...We can get it on about what ever topic yuou like including Isiah...Isiah ex-palyers have had a very good showing in post season, any comments on that???

Don't flatter yourself Mary. Nobody is fixated on you.

You have been killing a GM who was hired midseason (after the trade deadline) for weeks. Starting days after his hiring. He hasn't even had the opportunity to make a move before you have authored multiple posts ripping him before the regular season ended. It's so bad that one of the mods and guys that started the site told you that you are losing credibilty with each post.

Sure, Isiah's guys have been great. Especially Lamarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah. Do they count?

6 out of your last 10 post has been directed at or about me...For a person who rarely post, that's alarming...That could possibly perceived as "light" stalking...What's next a Bradley Cooper type crotch hug???

You could have probably went a hundred ways with a wise crack like that and the best you could do is Bradley cooper on the red carpet? How is that in your mental roladex? Are you a housewife? Do you always keep up with what's happening on the red carpet?

Sheer coincidence...I googled recent male on male stalkings, since u seem to have a sudden interest in me, and came up with that...Just a question, do u own pink mankini??

nyk4ever wrote:i think holfresh needs to be banned for that pic.

That is brutal. What if you leave images on at work by mistake and that comes up.

nyk4ever wrote:i think holfresh needs to be banned for that pic.

How is that different than what's posted in the Alba Thread?

CrushAlot wrote:

RonRon wrote:It is funny how Holfresh and Jrod, with a few other posters argue how the living expense in NYC(property), and STATE tax require CA to make more money

but

there is no cap space for managements/coaching etc, while there is one for players/team

I do think that is a lot of money for just coaching, however, he could make some of it through "Steve Kerr's show, like Woodson and Dantoni"
Now, add that with incentives for the team, and a starting salary of 2-3m, with raises after, and TEAM options with partial guarantees in future yearsu
Coaching in NYK is tough with the media, lack of assets, players, talents, and constant pressured

But that is too much for a coach that has no experience for GUARANTEED contract

The point about the money is that because of ny state income tax and NYC income tax it appeared Melo actually netted less than a guy like Lebrun who is given credit for taking less in a state and city that has no income tax. Someone recently posted that players are taxed differently for away games. Not sure if that is accurate but players having to pay state and city income tax to play in NYC versus not having to give up almost 13% of your income is a huge disadvantage for the ny franchises.

Yes and no. Ok so you pay more if you _decide_ to play in NY. Just like some regular person who decides to move to NY the fact that you'll pay more in taxes is simply something everyone has to decide when making their personal cost benefit analysis.

You want to play in NY? OK, be prepared to pay more than your buddy who signs in Florida. I don't really think the NBA should be making adjustments for state income tax levels. Where a free agent signs is their decision and taxes is just like everything else (amenities desired, housing, etc) one has to think about. It's a slippery slope starting to adjust for this type of thing.

If the NBA weights for taxes why not weight for cost of living as well. Certainly someone playing for the Charlotte Bobcats pays much less for housing and food than an LA Laker, no?

And what happens when the NBA weights for taxes and then a state goes and changes their tax code? The CBA would constantly have to be altered to reflect changes in state tax codes. How about Canada? An American on the Raptors has to pay not only American taxes but Canadian taxes as well. That's a huge burden certainly larger than someone simply paying NY taxes.

Taxes, cost of living, etc should be thought about when the player is negotiating their salary. The NBA should not get involved.

Lebron signed with the Heat and did actually take a smaller contract than what he couldve gotten if he demanded the max from the Heat. That he happened to sign in Miami, a state with no income tax is irrelevant. For one, because he could've gotten more from the Heat and secondly because he couldve gotten what $20-$30 million more if he stayed in CLE? The fact that it netted out to be not as much of a paycut because of Florida's tax code is neither here nor there. He took less so they could sign two other players and stay under the cap. That's the real point, not that he is taking huge financial hit (which really, he did, as CLE could've ultimately paid him a whole lot more).

CrushAlot wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

RonRon wrote:It is funny how Holfresh and Jrod, with a few other posters argue how the living expense in NYC(property), and STATE tax require CA to make more money

but

there is no cap space for managements/coaching etc, while there is one for players/team

I do think that is a lot of money for just coaching, however, he could make some of it through "Steve Kerr's show, like Woodson and Dantoni"
Now, add that with incentives for the team, and a starting salary of 2-3m, with raises after, and TEAM options with partial guarantees in future yearsu
Coaching in NYK is tough with the media, lack of assets, players, talents, and constant pressured

But that is too much for a coach that has no experience for GUARANTEED contract

The point about the money is that because of ny state income tax and NYC income tax it appeared Melo actually netted less than a guy like Lebrun who is given credit for taking less in a state and city that has no income tax. Someone recently posted that players are taxed differently for away games. Not sure if that is accurate but players having to pay state and city income tax to play in NYC versus not having to give up almost 13% of your income is a huge disadvantage for the ny franchises.

Yes and no. Ok so you pay more if you _decide_ to play in NY. Just like some regular person who decides to move to NY the fact that you'll pay more in taxes is simply something everyone has to decide when making their personal cost benefit analysis.

You want to play in NY? OK, be prepared to pay more than your buddy who signs in Florida. I don't really think the NBA should be making adjustments for state income tax levels. Where a free agent signs is their decision and taxes is just like everything else (amenities desired, housing, etc) one has to think about. It's a slippery slope starting to adjust for this type of thing.

If the NBA weights for taxes why not weight for cost of living as well. Certainly someone playing for the Charlotte Bobcats pays much less for housing and food than an LA Laker, no?

And what happens when the NBA weights for taxes and then a state goes and changes their tax code? The CBA would constantly have to be altered to reflect changes in state tax codes. How about Canada? An American on the Raptors has to pay not only American taxes but Canadian taxes as well. That's a huge burden certainly larger than someone simply paying NY taxes.

Taxes, cost of living, etc should be thought about when the player is negotiating their salary. The NBA should not get involved.

Except having a salary cap makes it an unfair advantage. Not talking nba money but my life would be different if I got a 13% raise.

Not really. If you, NBA superstar get an offer from The Knicks for the max and decide that NY taxes are going to be a hindrance to building a winning team you can take less or go sign with another team. Carmelo certainly forced a trade here even though he'd probably be paying more in taxes than he was in Denver.

Just like low taxes may be an advantage for a player deciding to play In Florida, Texas, and Washington States, playing in LA or New York comes with a whole host of benefits that some players may decide is worth it to them. Maybe for a middling NBA star Nyc or La means you'll get endorsements you would never have a shot at in San Antonio. Maybe you want to live in a big city as opposed to somewhere like OKC. If taxes are an advantage then so are these things. The problem is it is all personal.

What is your view on what I said about housing costs and food costs? It's certainly an advantage financially to sign in Minny or Charlotte and spend way less money on those things.

Low taxes is an advantage just like anything else. Free agents are free to go wherever they please.

CrushAlot wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:i think holfresh needs to be banned for that pic.

That is brutal. What if you leave images on at work by mistake and that comes up.

LOL, brutal explains it well. i'd hate to see what else came up in that google search lol