newyorknewyork wrote:I studied the bible heavily a couple of yrs ago. And while i'm not close to knowing everything or being an expert. There are some conclusions that I have come to.

First and foremost God is real. If God wasn't real then he was made up by man. Meaning there would be a time period in mans history where there was no God in existence. There is no documented time period in mans history that God wasn't in existence.

Second, Gods law that is eternal and unchanging is LOVE. God created a lot of rules, regulations, ordinances, instructions, guidlines to follow throughout the bible. Everything from what to eat Whatever divides the hoof and is cloven-footed, chewing the cud (Leviticus 11:3), whatever has fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, those you shall eat. (verse 9), sex, taxes etc etc etc. Every single guidline has its purpose to keep the order in society. More proof of his existence in my eyes as why would man(without Gods influence) create laws on what was good to eat or not eat during this time frame? How would they know the affects of any food to call it good or bad? Or laws of marriage, as Jrodmc stated kept the order of society for centuries. There is no way for them during this time period to know the negative affects of these actions on society to put these laws into place.

Now again the law that is eternal and unchanging is LOVE. But the rules, regulations, ordinances, instructions are changeable based on where man kind was at in there development. Notice how God at first in the bible stated to be fruitful and multiple allowing siblings to have sex with each other to fill the earth. Then later on put out the law that siblings were no longer allowed to have sex with each other. As in the beginning this was necessary for the earth to be filled but after the earth was filled it was no longer necessary so in order to keep society in order God decided to update his instructions. This was heavily taught by Jesus as the Scribes and Pharisees would often follow the laws as well as create there own laws to benefit themselves. But wouldn't follow Gods eternal law of LOVE.

Mark 3:1-6
3 Another time Jesus went into the synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. 2 Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath. 3 Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, “Stand up in front of everyone.”

4 Then Jesus asked them, “Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they remained silent.

5 He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored. 6 Then the Pharisees went out and began to plot with the Herodians how they might kill Jesus.

Clearly Jesus was stating that allowing a man to die just to follow Gods law of not doing any work on the Sabbath wasn't Gods will. Which clarifies that Gods law of LOVE overrides everything.

Third, I don't know what causes an individual to be gay. But I don't think we are at the part of mans development that passes judgement. If being Gay is wrong, I don't believe that it will lead to individuals burning in hell for eternity. There will be a time period where God lifts the curse from the earth and heaven will come down to earth and we will live under Jesus rule to be shown the proper way to live. If being homosexual is against Gods will then most likely the thought processes that goes with being homosexual will be removed. If homosexuality is a natural part of life then the thought process of being against homosexuals will be removed. The last 2 sentences were just my opinion though not biblical fact.

So in other words, every other religion is wrong but yours is right....because it says that it is. And somehow, there was no order before it....and yet many of the greatest empires came before anyone ever even conceived of it. Awesome bro.

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:I studied the bible heavily a couple of yrs ago. And while i'm not close to knowing everything or being an expert. There are some conclusions that I have come to.

First and foremost God is real. If God wasn't real then he was made up by man. Meaning there would be a time period in mans history where there was no God in existence. There is no documented time period in mans history that God wasn't in existence.

Second, Gods law that is eternal and unchanging is LOVE. God created a lot of rules, regulations, ordinances, instructions, guidlines to follow throughout the bible. Everything from what to eat Whatever divides the hoof and is cloven-footed, chewing the cud (Leviticus 11:3), whatever has fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, those you shall eat. (verse 9), sex, taxes etc etc etc. Every single guidline has its purpose to keep the order in society. More proof of his existence in my eyes as why would man(without Gods influence) create laws on what was good to eat or not eat during this time frame? How would they know the affects of any food to call it good or bad? Or laws of marriage, as Jrodmc stated kept the order of society for centuries. There is no way for them during this time period to know the negative affects of these actions on society to put these laws into place.

Now again the law that is eternal and unchanging is LOVE. But the rules, regulations, ordinances, instructions are changeable based on where man kind was at in there development. Notice how God at first in the bible stated to be fruitful and multiple allowing siblings to have sex with each other to fill the earth. Then later on put out the law that siblings were no longer allowed to have sex with each other. As in the beginning this was necessary for the earth to be filled but after the earth was filled it was no longer necessary so in order to keep society in order God decided to update his instructions. This was heavily taught by Jesus as the Scribes and Pharisees would often follow the laws as well as create there own laws to benefit themselves. But wouldn't follow Gods eternal law of LOVE.

Mark 3:1-6
3 Another time Jesus went into the synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. 2 Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath. 3 Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, “Stand up in front of everyone.”

4 Then Jesus asked them, “Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they remained silent.

5 He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored. 6 Then the Pharisees went out and began to plot with the Herodians how they might kill Jesus.

Clearly Jesus was stating that allowing a man to die just to follow Gods law of not doing any work on the Sabbath wasn't Gods will. Which clarifies that Gods law of LOVE overrides everything.

Third, I don't know what causes an individual to be gay. But I don't think we are at the part of mans development that passes judgement. If being Gay is wrong, I don't believe that it will lead to individuals burning in hell for eternity. There will be a time period where God lifts the curse from the earth and heaven will come down to earth and we will live under Jesus rule to be shown the proper way to live. If being homosexual is against Gods will then most likely the thought processes that goes with being homosexual will be removed. If homosexuality is a natural part of life then the thought process of being against homosexuals will be removed. The last 2 sentences were just my opinion though not biblical fact.

So in other words, every other religion is wrong but yours is right....because it says that it is. And somehow, there was no order before it....and yet many of the greatest empires came before anyone ever even conceived of it. Awesome bro.

I stated the conclusions that I came to that is all. I didn't write this to claim that I was right and everyone else was wrong, just sharing my thoughts.

With that said the earliest known civilization documented in mans history is Mesopotamia which was created after the flood of Noah. If I am wrong I would like to be educated.

Some of these believers once practiced this lifestyle

1 Cor 6;10 Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,
or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God.

1Cor 6:11 Some of you were ONCE LIKE THAT. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Rom 1:25-27 They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.
That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.

And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.

This is taken from the book of ROMANS, I told you earlier Rome fell from within with the do what you want to do lifestyle.

newyorknewyork wrote:Historical facts are defined by the amount of documentation backing them up. The bible as the most documentation backing it up then any other piece of history in mankind's existence. Under these definitions if the Bible isn't considered a historical fact then nothing in mans history that you didn't visually witness could be deemed as such.

And recorded human history dates back as far as 3100 BC. The Old Testament wasn't assembled until 3 BC and existed as "word of mouth" for some time before that. Anyone whose played "telephone" in first grade can realize the issues that something like that could present, not to mention the presumptions that were made in translations since.

I'm not sure what you're basing your facts around but the idea of the Bible being a source of historical reference is ridiculous, especially when considering how limited in geographical scope it is. Also, the validity of any document that speaks of men parting seas and building sea vessels large enough to store every animal in the world, is shaky at best. The real facts here are that several well-recognized and more pervasive peoples existed before Christians or the Bible was ever conceived.

H1AND1 wrote:Couple observations: How come anyone espousing a non-religious based argument is assumed to be a "kid" or a "child"? Also, why is it any more ludicrous to blindly believe what a PhD holder says than to blindly believe what a religious order tells you to believe? If you simply believe anything ANYONE says without thinking it through yourself then, I dunno, but that's a problem.

Further, is the existence of earth and life really "proof" that there is a sentient god out there somewhere? If I tend not to believe that there's a dude in the sky who cares about the definition of marriage, or a book that claims the earth is only a couple thousand years old than I should be ridiculed for believing something I learned in science class?

Personally, I think people should believe whatever they want, love who they want to love, do what they want to do and if they want to worship some man in the sky then great I'm happy for them. But come on, arguing that religion is anything more than a leap of faith is treading on thin ice in my opinion. Why isn't anyone getting swallowed by whales and surviving anymore?

Finally: I just seems really out there and ridiculous that letting gay people marry would in any way pervert of corrupt hetero marriage. Is it really that hard to explain to you kids that sometimes two men or two women can marry?

Actually, when this debate gets into a religious vs non-religious debate it's just kinda pointless because the two points of view just cannot be reconciled. "Yes children you see Larry and Bob truly loved and cared for each other, and so wanted to adopt that child who had been bounced around foster homes his entire short life so that he could be raised in a loving home, but alas that would not come to pass because someone else's child might get the idea that marriage between two men really angers the man in the sky, and thus he would rather that these two people who are deeply devoted to each other shall not be able to live like every other normal human being, and that child who was destined for a nice home and a decent upbringing should in the eyes of god go back to that hellhole of a foster home lest he grow up thinking that two men should ever be happy together in a an intimate way....

Yeah, that's makes so much sense....Kindve hard to believe a benevolent being who represents all that is good would think that way....

I understand and respect the point you're trying to make but false equivalents should not serve that end. Presuming that those who espouse a "non-religious" view on gays are "blindly following the works of phDs" is nonsense that jrdmoc pulled straight out of his ass. I know you're trying to be the peace maker but don't ridicule my position in trying to do so.

H1AND1 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:Couple observations: How come anyone espousing a non-religious based argument is assumed to be a "kid" or a "child"? Also, why is it any more ludicrous to blindly believe what a PhD holder says than to blindly believe what a religious order tells you to believe? If you simply believe anything ANYONE says without thinking it through yourself then, I dunno, but that's a problem.

Further, is the existence of earth and life really "proof" that there is a sentient god out there somewhere? If I tend not to believe that there's a dude in the sky who cares about the definition of marriage, or a book that claims the earth is only a couple thousand years old than I should be ridiculed for believing something I learned in science class?

Personally, I think people should believe whatever they want, love who they want to love, do what they want to do and if they want to worship some man in the sky then great I'm happy for them. But come on, arguing that religion is anything more than a leap of faith is treading on thin ice in my opinion. Why isn't anyone getting swallowed by whales and surviving anymore?

Finally: I just seems really out there and ridiculous that letting gay people marry would in any way pervert of corrupt hetero marriage. Is it really that hard to explain to you kids that sometimes two men or two women can marry?

Actually, when this debate gets into a religious vs non-religious debate it's just kinda pointless because the two points of view just cannot be reconciled. "Yes children you see Larry and Bob truly loved and cared for each other, and so wanted to adopt that child who had been bounced around foster homes his entire short life so that he could be raised in a loving home, but alas that would not come to pass because someone else's child might get the idea that marriage between two men really angers the man in the sky, and thus he would rather that these two people who are deeply devoted to each other shall not be able to live like every other normal human being, and that child who was destined for a nice home and a decent upbringing should in the eyes of god go back to that hellhole of a foster home lest he grow up thinking that two men should ever be happy together in a an intimate way....

Yeah, that's makes so much sense....Kindve hard to believe a benevolent being who represents all that is good would think that way....

I understand and respect the point you're trying to make but false equivalents should not serve that end. Presuming that those who espouse a "non-religious" view on gays are "blindly following the works of phDs" is nonsense that jrdmoc pulled straight out of his ass. I know you're trying to be the peace maker but don't ridicule my position in trying to do so.

Nard: Apologies I wasn't trying to ridicule your position! Sorry! My point was that if someone is going to use religion to explain something or use it as evidence then accusing you of blindly following a PhD simply for taking an opposing view is kinda bogus. Anyway, my writing may have gotten jumbled but I was meaning to defend you!

Anyway, let me do a quick edit, I see now reading back that my point came out totally wrong and I drew an equivalence where I wasn't meaning to....

Now I feel like a dick. I didn't mean to come off like someone that wanted or demanded an apology. I just wanted to point that out is all. So, there should be no need to edit your post. Let's just move on.

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I'm not trying to by funny but is anyone on the forum gay? Or do you thing you might be gay? I see nothing wrong if you come out and say you are. This is 2014 it should make no difference.

This is UK...We don't have any gays on UK!

For context...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-483746/We-dont-gays-Iran-Iranian-president-tells-Ivy-League-audience.html

There apparently are a few thousand members, although maybe only 300 post here. I'd assume at least 10 to 15 of those are gay.

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I'm not trying to by funny but is anyone on the forum gay? Or do you thing you might be gay? I see nothing wrong if you come out and say you are. This is 2014 it should make no difference.

I once watched the first 3 seasons of Grey's Anthony in 4 days, uncoerced. Does that make me gay?

I actually enjoy the concept of using a bidet. Does that kinda count?

Two weeks ago, I went out on a date (I ****ing hate dates) with a woman that made me envious that one dude could be predisposed to ****ing another dude. Does that make me gay? lol.

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:I studied the bible heavily a couple of yrs ago. And while i'm not close to knowing everything or being an expert. There are some conclusions that I have come to.

First and foremost God is real. If God wasn't real then he was made up by man. Meaning there would be a time period in mans history where there was no God in existence. There is no documented time period in mans history that God wasn't in existence.

Second, Gods law that is eternal and unchanging is LOVE. God created a lot of rules, regulations, ordinances, instructions, guidlines to follow throughout the bible. Everything from what to eat Whatever divides the hoof and is cloven-footed, chewing the cud (Leviticus 11:3), whatever has fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, those you shall eat. (verse 9), sex, taxes etc etc etc. Every single guidline has its purpose to keep the order in society. More proof of his existence in my eyes as why would man(without Gods influence) create laws on what was good to eat or not eat during this time frame? How would they know the affects of any food to call it good or bad? Or laws of marriage, as Jrodmc stated kept the order of society for centuries. There is no way for them during this time period to know the negative affects of these actions on society to put these laws into place.

Now again the law that is eternal and unchanging is LOVE. But the rules, regulations, ordinances, instructions are changeable based on where man kind was at in there development. Notice how God at first in the bible stated to be fruitful and multiple allowing siblings to have sex with each other to fill the earth. Then later on put out the law that siblings were no longer allowed to have sex with each other. As in the beginning this was necessary for the earth to be filled but after the earth was filled it was no longer necessary so in order to keep society in order God decided to update his instructions. This was heavily taught by Jesus as the Scribes and Pharisees would often follow the laws as well as create there own laws to benefit themselves. But wouldn't follow Gods eternal law of LOVE.

Mark 3:1-6
3 Another time Jesus went into the synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. 2 Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath. 3 Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, “Stand up in front of everyone.”

4 Then Jesus asked them, “Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they remained silent.

5 He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored. 6 Then the Pharisees went out and began to plot with the Herodians how they might kill Jesus.

Clearly Jesus was stating that allowing a man to die just to follow Gods law of not doing any work on the Sabbath wasn't Gods will. Which clarifies that Gods law of LOVE overrides everything.

Third, I don't know what causes an individual to be gay. But I don't think we are at the part of mans development that passes judgement. If being Gay is wrong, I don't believe that it will lead to individuals burning in hell for eternity. There will be a time period where God lifts the curse from the earth and heaven will come down to earth and we will live under Jesus rule to be shown the proper way to live. If being homosexual is against Gods will then most likely the thought processes that goes with being homosexual will be removed. If homosexuality is a natural part of life then the thought process of being against homosexuals will be removed. The last 2 sentences were just my opinion though not biblical fact.

So in other words, every other religion is wrong but yours is right....because it says that it is. And somehow, there was no order before it....and yet many of the greatest empires came before anyone ever even conceived of it. Awesome bro.

I stated the conclusions that I came to that is all. I didn't write this to claim that I was right and everyone else was wrong, just sharing my thoughts.

With that said the earliest known civilization documented in mans history is Mesopotamia which was created after the flood of Noah. If I am wrong I would like to be educated.

You can believe what you want to believe but the Bible is no real historical account. If it was, the book would be continually expanding and updating itself; while focusing on more than the accounts of a random nomadic tribe.

You know what's interesting about Christianity though? Every other present day religion maintains it's highest concentration of followers in the areas/regions they originated: the Buddhist/Daoist still dominants East Asia, the Muslim still dominants the Middle East, the Hindu in India. Christianity is the only religion whose message was so compelling that hardly anyone in the region where it began, still follows it. The highest concentration of Christians today, exist in conquered lands. The conquerors came with their Bibles and took the land and all the resources therein of the indigenous peoples'. Today, all that the progeny of these indigenous people have are their Bibles, while the descendants of the conquerors have no need for theirs'. I think that's all I needed to know about Christianity, when I stopped being a Catholic. Perhaps that's something you should consider as "a strong Black man".

Yea but we took their land and raped their women and children in the name of God it's ok!

playa2 wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I'm not trying to by funny but is anyone on the forum gay? Or do you thing you might be gay? I see nothing wrong if you come out and say you are. This is 2014 it should make no difference.

You're kidding right ?

Of course they are , but they never flaunted it to all the heterosexuals here on UK they just talk about basketball and cultural issues.

I bet they would never come to a UK gathering and talk about their girlfriend.

playa2 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

playa2 wrote:

Papabear wrote:Papabear Says

I'm not trying to by funny but is anyone on the forum gay? Or do you thing you might be gay? I see nothing wrong if you come out and say you are. This is 2014 it should make no difference.

You're kidding right ?

Of course they are , but they never flaunted it to all the heterosexuals here on UK they just talk about basketball and cultural issues.

I bet they would never come to a UK gathering and talk about their girlfriend.

I guarantee you the number of people who flaunt there homosexuality is smaller than the number who flaunt their heterosexuality

Maybe because it's natural it's the way the earth is populated with human beings, also it's how you and I got here.