Papabear wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Papabear wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:paying melo the max would alienate even the most irrational of his fans. it would really be better to cut our losses and trade him. too bad dolan does not know what sunk costs are... unless his ego has been hurt by people smarter than him-- like morey. between dolan's fragile ego and melo's primadonna act the knicks are doomed anything short of melo playing for 12 million a year.

12 to 13 million a year for melo is a reasonable and fair salary. he owes knicks fans that much since he has been vastly overpaid this go round as well as crippling the team's future with what has been given up. not talking about "who" anymore but "what." win-now mode is an abject and utter failure and the knicks should have kept with walsh's slow and patient rebuild.

"build it and they will come."

So the guy that busts his @ss, works harder then anyone else on his team and is keeping the mess that the organization he works for afloat is supposed to take a third less then he makes now? The reason is that it would be noble and the organization will have an epiphany and sign guys that are actually a value and aren't broken down. No more Amare moves, no more McDyess trades, no more Curry trades, no more nonsense because Steve Mills gets it. The labor agreement that was collectively bargained with the intent that guys would be rewarded for staying with their organization is to be ignored and Melo is supposed to give up a 1/3rd of his salary and have faith that the Knicks management and ownership will use that extra 7-8 mil to put together a championship roster? And of course if he doesn't he is evil and flawed.

what makes you think he works harder than anyone else on this team.. I mean this is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard... are you getting paid by carmelo? I mean this has reached epic levels or ridiculousness.. what makes you think he works hard.. because he scores more points than anyone else.. you do realize that defending takes even more effort and he is probably the worst defender on the team... so how you think he works harder than anyone else is a JOKE...

tyson chandler, shumpert, felton all work and play hard.. they too are limited, but those guys work and play hard out there on the floor..

this type of talk is typical of a fan who is more interested in the player than the team... hero worship.... just horrible... and you have the nerve to call someone a hater...

Papabear Says

Yes TKF I'm calling you out again. Lies Lies Lies by you. How come you forgot to mention rebounds?? Over 10 rebounds a game, most played minuets per game by any player. And yes anyone who watch the Knicks games knows that Melo is playing hard. You see you never tell the whole story. Everyone on this forum knows how you leave out things that makes Melo look good. Look we all know you hate him and now you are getting ridiculous.

I think he's at over 15 rebounds a game!
Seriously, how can you say someone else is lying and then just make up numbers?

Papabear Says

You are a lier Melo has over 9 plus rebounds a game. Yes go to the defense of you hate brother. and in 2014 he has 10 rebounds a game check you records bro. He is the best player on the Knicks. Check your records. He will sign again with the Knicks. So you better grin and bare it or take the trip to Denver with TKF.

So 9 rbs on the season is over 10 in your world? And 9 (this month) also counts as over 10?
Come on, don't call someone a liar and then lie in the same post.
There are plenty of people I disagree with who are very knowledgeable posters, and I respect them. What you're writing is just embarrassing.

Marcala12 wrote:

NYY1NYK2 wrote:Deron williams was available, He now has a lingering ankle injury and will never be the same.
We gave up alot for melo, too much. but he was the best player available.

we gave up too much for Melo??? someone says this every day on this board, but I'm wondering if people actually remember how that trade went.

Billups and Melo for: Felton (got him back), Mozgov (please), Wilson Chandler (meh), Gallo (not even close to a big time player), and the pick next year.

Now the pick next year hurts, especially if we'll be a lotto team, which is a possibility. But nobody thought we were going to be a lotto team, and we may very well end up not being one, even though everything has gone wrong.

What's funny to me is when people say "well maybe if we had all those pieces we traded away for Melo......" The biggest piece we gave away in that trade is currently playing in college somewhere, so I don't understand how our next draft pick could have been helping us at this stage. And outside of the pick, we traded a bag of BS for Melo.

Being that Denver had been a much better team than the knicks in the years heading into the trade, you'd figure they'd be in the finals every year with the way people say they ripped us off for Melo. But yea, they can't get out of the first round and this year they're further back from the 8 seed than we are. For a team that ripped us off so badly, and for a team with all that talent, they're absolutely stuck in mud.

Melo isn't as good as LEbron or Durant or prime Kobke or Duncan...we all know that. And it's kind of tough to win a ring unless you have a guy like that. So let's not be unreasonable here- A team with: Gallo, Amare, Wilson Chandler, Mozgov and next years' pick wasn't going to be some kind of contender this year.

In other words, the trade was fine.

I don't want to go back and forth but if you do think we can build around Melo, if you do believe we can pay him a mex deal, please post how

there were also 2 GS 2nd round picks (which were predicted to be high, only one of which became high)

Swap of 1st round pick (which is possible now)

Eddy Curry's expiring (actually has value) /AR (which had value had the time, about a 2nd rounder for his potential), WE SAVED DENVER 50M, in taxes and salary, but did not get compensated for it, look at the teams right now looking to save 3-5m and giving up 1st round picks and more, well put a value on 30m+ in salary and over 50m in taxes and salary

DENVER has a better record than us EVERY YEAR since the trade
WE both had had no success in the play offs but we were BUILD TO COMPETE/CONTEND NOW while Denver was built for the future

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:paying melo the max would alienate even the most irrational of his fans. it would really be better to cut our losses and trade him. too bad dolan does not know what sunk costs are... unless his ego has been hurt by people smarter than him-- like morey. between dolan's fragile ego and melo's primadonna act the knicks are doomed anything short of melo playing for 12 million a year.

12 to 13 million a year for melo is a reasonable and fair salary. he owes knicks fans that much since he has been vastly overpaid this go round as well as crippling the team's future with what has been given up. not talking about "who" anymore but "what." win-now mode is an abject and utter failure and the knicks should have kept with walsh's slow and patient rebuild.

"build it and they will come."

So the guy that busts his @ss, works harder then anyone else on his team and is keeping the mess that the organization he works for afloat is supposed to take a third less then he makes now? The reason is that it would be noble and the organization will have an epiphany and sign guys that are actually a value and aren't broken down. No more Amare moves, no more McDyess trades, no more Curry trades, no more nonsense because Steve Mills gets it. The labor agreement that was collectively bargained with the intent that guys would be rewarded for staying with their organization is to be ignored and Melo is supposed to give up a 1/3rd of his salary and have faith that the Knicks management and ownership will use that extra 7-8 mil to put together a championship roster? And of course if he doesn't he is evil and flawed.

winning requires sacrifice. carmelo anthony is unwilling or incapable of sacrificing. the manner in which he arrived in new york proved this and his fool's gold, zero-sum game has set this in stone.

"incapable of sacrifice" should be on his headstone.

since he is incapable of sacrificing on the court this drives his value down. always has always will. the number 12-13 million is what is necessary to make it a worthwhile sacrifice in this situation. this is his actual value to the knicks from one point of view, and from another it is restitution to the knicks. if he has nobody but himself as counsel and the knicks do not play hardball-- and really between a cynical dupe like dolan and a sap like mills what else can we expect?-- then he will simply be leaving the bed of mediocrity he has had to lie in for his entire career and move on to another bed of similar mediocrity or worse.

Silverfuel wrote:You guys want to let Melo walk and leave it up to Steve Mills and James Dolan to rebuild this team? WTF? I think you guys are insane. Do you not remember Shanon Anderson, Howard Eisley and Clarence Weatherspoon in the starting lineup? What makes you think there will be a rebuild post Melo? Donnie tried to rebuild and blew his load with Amare and D'Antoni. You idiots think Dolan will let any other GM rebuild? Not in the remote future. If Melo walks, we are basically looking at a return of the 2001 to 2010 Knicks.

You need to stars to win a title. Just look at ALL the NBA titles won since the 80s. Every team except 3 that I can think of clearly had TWO superstar players. Those team's being Larry Brown's Pistons, Hakeem's Rockets (the first year w/o Drexler) and the Mavs team that beat the Heat. Those are three years out of like 30 and you could even make the star arguement for some of the guys on those teams.

Anyway on the Knicks and Melo.

I dont know if the Knicks can ever add another star that will elevate the team to elite after resigning Melo. After next year when Amare/Tyson/Bargs expire if they manage the roster well they would have the cap space to do so. Do they have the saavy to build up the rest of the roster if they are lucky enough to grab a top flight FA to put next to Melo? I highly doubt it based simply on the history of ineptitude this organization has displayed.

But I do know NOT signing Melo brings us further away from not only a title but winning period. This notion that because we probably dont win a title resigning Melo means we are better off just trading him for picks or youngs is stupid and not reality based. I mean in the last 5 years how many players drafted are clearly better then Melo? 5?

You really have to wonder what the Knicks plan, and hope like hell its a bit deeper than: 1) max out Melo, 2) throw poop at a wall to build a supporting cast 3) have a winning record and make the playoffs every year

Regardless of what it is we are NOT better off dumping a player thats as good as MElo because he's got holes in his game. A good org builds around talent. Knicks seem to squander it

This notion that because we probably dont win a title resigning Melo means we are better off just trading him for picks or youngs is stupid and not reality based.

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

cartman, this team would be better with a SF who can actually play SF, defend, pass and score efficiently....

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

did I miss a parade or something? you guys keep refering to last year as if that was a championship team.. I don't care if last years team won 24 games.. actually I wish we did.. because we owned our own pick this past draft...

let me ask you this.. lets say without carmelo the team would have won 44 games instead of 54? so what? still not a contender.. still not a championship quality team...

what are your expectations? I want sustained excellence....I don't think you will get that with carmelo on this team..

and thanks for answering my question directly. it was a very simple question which you failed to answer.

He never answer on topic ... Always twisting things to make Melo a bad guy ...

Red1976 wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

cartman, this team would be better with a SF who can actually play SF, defend, pass and score efficiently....

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

did I miss a parade or something? you guys keep refering to last year as if that was a championship team.. I don't care if last years team won 24 games.. actually I wish we did.. because we owned our own pick this past draft...

let me ask you this.. lets say without carmelo the team would have won 44 games instead of 54? so what? still not a contender.. still not a championship quality team...

what are your expectations? I want sustained excellence....I don't think you will get that with carmelo on this team..

and thanks for answering my question directly. it was a very simple question which you failed to answer.

He never answer on topic ... Always twisting things to make Melo a bad guy ...

I actually did, stop baiting and go back and read.. I don't need to make meloser the bad guy, he does a good job of that himself..

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

cartman, this team would be better with a SF who can actually play SF, defend, pass and score efficiently....

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

did I miss a parade or something? you guys keep refering to last year as if that was a championship team.. I don't care if last years team won 24 games.. actually I wish we did.. because we owned our own pick this past draft...

let me ask you this.. lets say without carmelo the team would have won 44 games instead of 54? so what? still not a contender.. still not a championship quality team...

what are your expectations? I want sustained excellence....I don't think you will get that with carmelo on this team..

and thanks for answering my question directly. it was a very simple question which you failed to answer.

I gave you an answer... no..... but it doesn't matter.. what would it matter if they won 44, or 54 games if they have no real shot at contention... I also think they would have won less games if they didn't have chandler, JR smith or kidd.. so what is the point? LOL

now answer my question.. would the knicks have won more games last year if they had a franchise player that actually defended and was a leader?

so basically carmelo contributed more to winning than losing last year, right? another simple question.

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:

tkf wrote:

Cartman718 wrote:tkf... this team would be more than decent if it had a true pg, a true 2-way pg that got any kinda burn. carmelo is not the pg and does not have the ball in his hands for most of the offensive shotclock. this is why rasheed and kidd were important last year they knew how to pass. Carmelo is passing the ball well (especially recently). you cannot take credit away from carmelo because kidd and rasheed were available to show the other players how it's done. carmelo cannot do it all... but you are making it seem like he cannot be the difference between winning and losing.

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

cartman, this team would be better with a SF who can actually play SF, defend, pass and score efficiently....

very simple question for you... do you really think that without carmelo the team of last year would have won more games?? i mean come on.

did I miss a parade or something? you guys keep refering to last year as if that was a championship team.. I don't care if last years team won 24 games.. actually I wish we did.. because we owned our own pick this past draft...

let me ask you this.. lets say without carmelo the team would have won 44 games instead of 54? so what? still not a contender.. still not a championship quality team...

what are your expectations? I want sustained excellence....I don't think you will get that with carmelo on this team..

and thanks for answering my question directly. it was a very simple question which you failed to answer.

I gave you an answer... no..... but it doesn't matter.. what would it matter if they won 44, or 54 games if they have no real shot at contention... I also think they would have won less games if they didn't have chandler, JR smith or kidd.. so what is the point? LOL

now answer my question.. would the knicks have won more games last year if they had a franchise player that actually defended and was a leader?

so basically carmelo contributed more to winning than losing last year, right? another simple question.

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Lakers won with Kobe but he had Phil, gasol and Bynum

Explain to me how we build a team like that around Melo at $30m

they also had guys like artest at one point, odom, ariza.. you won't be able to build that type of team paying him 23 mil either guns...

True and it's harder with the current cba and cap at $58mil