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OT: Jeremy Lin
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CrushAlot
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11/13/2013  6:44 PM
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
JohnStarksFan wrote:
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:It's not even about being right. I didn't create this thread to run it in. How does rubbing it in help matters? I'm still feeling sick knowing that we finally had a young talented guard fall in our lap. The whole time it's been about how Melo needs help. It was the most fun I had watching this team since the Ewing Knicks by far. And we kicked him out the door because Dolan was drunk. We didn't even offer him a ****in contract!! We persued 40yr old Nash!!

Dolan and this team deserves the current state they find themselves in. I feel for the fans who are trying to remain positive and hopeful

Only James Dolan could have Jeremy Lin fall into his lap, get a ruling that allows us to retain his bird rights (thus sacrificing nothing in terms of building a team)...

and then screw it up.

I agree, but the Rockets offer would not have been matched anyways with that poison pill at the end of the deal. Remember, Lin gets $15 million the last year of the 3 year deal. But the fact that they didn't even put out the offer? Why not just make him the same offer as JR with no cap hit in terms of ability to sign new players. We would have been in the same position luxury tax wise. Still that deal makes him $8.3 a year player, and that would have made him too expensive.

It's up for debate whether Lin is an $8.3M per year player.
For every other team in the league that offer was too expensive to match.
Thing is for the Knicks....he was worth it simply due to the Bird Rights thing. We obviously don't give a damn about the luxury tax because we spent $ on Marcus Camby, Novak, Felton. We took on money in Bargnani.

If it was any other team I would say that what happened was a basketball and business decision.

But the whole Chris Smith situation is proof of the fact that things are done diff. when Dolan is running the team

Yeah but with the new cba his deal would be 15 mil on the cap in year three and with the Knicks cap situation the tax they would have to pay on top of that was ridiculous. That was why Houston was able to do the poison pill deal.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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Bonn1997
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11/13/2013  6:47 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/13/2013  6:48 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
JohnStarksFan wrote:
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:It's not even about being right. I didn't create this thread to run it in. How does rubbing it in help matters? I'm still feeling sick knowing that we finally had a young talented guard fall in our lap. The whole time it's been about how Melo needs help. It was the most fun I had watching this team since the Ewing Knicks by far. And we kicked him out the door because Dolan was drunk. We didn't even offer him a ****in contract!! We persued 40yr old Nash!!

Dolan and this team deserves the current state they find themselves in. I feel for the fans who are trying to remain positive and hopeful

Only James Dolan could have Jeremy Lin fall into his lap, get a ruling that allows us to retain his bird rights (thus sacrificing nothing in terms of building a team)...

and then screw it up.

I agree, but the Rockets offer would not have been matched anyways with that poison pill at the end of the deal. Remember, Lin gets $15 million the last year of the 3 year deal. But the fact that they didn't even put out the offer? Why not just make him the same offer as JR with no cap hit in terms of ability to sign new players. We would have been in the same position luxury tax wise. Still that deal makes him $8.3 a year player, and that would have made him too expensive.

It's up for debate whether Lin is an $8.3M per year player.
For every other team in the league that offer was too expensive to match.
Thing is for the Knicks....he was worth it simply due to the Bird Rights thing. We obviously don't give a damn about the luxury tax because we spent $ on Marcus Camby, Novak, Felton. We took on money in Bargnani.

If it was any other team I would say that what happened was a basketball and business decision.

But the whole Chris Smith situation is proof of the fact that things are done diff. when Dolan is running the team

Yeah but with the new cba his deal would be 15 mil on the cap in year three and with the Knicks cap situation the tax they would have to pay on top of that was ridiculous. That was why Houston was able to do the poison pill deal.

Please. You're talking about a corporation (Cablevision) worth billions and you're worrying about a low 8 figure amount of money?

CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
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11/13/2013  6:58 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
JohnStarksFan wrote:
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:It's not even about being right. I didn't create this thread to run it in. How does rubbing it in help matters? I'm still feeling sick knowing that we finally had a young talented guard fall in our lap. The whole time it's been about how Melo needs help. It was the most fun I had watching this team since the Ewing Knicks by far. And we kicked him out the door because Dolan was drunk. We didn't even offer him a ****in contract!! We persued 40yr old Nash!!

Dolan and this team deserves the current state they find themselves in. I feel for the fans who are trying to remain positive and hopeful

Only James Dolan could have Jeremy Lin fall into his lap, get a ruling that allows us to retain his bird rights (thus sacrificing nothing in terms of building a team)...

and then screw it up.

I agree, but the Rockets offer would not have been matched anyways with that poison pill at the end of the deal. Remember, Lin gets $15 million the last year of the 3 year deal. But the fact that they didn't even put out the offer? Why not just make him the same offer as JR with no cap hit in terms of ability to sign new players. We would have been in the same position luxury tax wise. Still that deal makes him $8.3 a year player, and that would have made him too expensive.

It's up for debate whether Lin is an $8.3M per year player.
For every other team in the league that offer was too expensive to match.
Thing is for the Knicks....he was worth it simply due to the Bird Rights thing. We obviously don't give a damn about the luxury tax because we spent $ on Marcus Camby, Novak, Felton. We took on money in Bargnani.

If it was any other team I would say that what happened was a basketball and business decision.

But the whole Chris Smith situation is proof of the fact that things are done diff. when Dolan is running the team

Yeah but with the new cba his deal would be 15 mil on the cap in year three and with the Knicks cap situation the tax they would have to pay on top of that was ridiculous. That was why Houston was able to do the poison pill deal.

Please. You're talking about a corporation (Cablevision) worth billions and you're worrying about a low 8 figure amount of money?

This has been discussed many times and it is in the past. Year three of his deal would have cost the Knicks 15 million not 8.3 million. Because of the Knicks cap situation it would cost them many millions over this. Here are the details if you care to read them.
It Could Actually Cost The Knicks $73 Million To Keep Jeremy Lin


Tony Manfred Jul. 16, 2012, 9:59 AM 9,020 11



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jeremy lin new york knicks
Mike Ehrmann/Getty Images


Here's the popular explanation for why the Knicks are (maybe) going to let Jeremy Lin go: the luxury tax bill in the third year of Lin's deal would be way too high.

After the lockout, the NBA raised its luxury tax rate — meaning teams that exceed the $70.3 million payroll threshold (the "luxury tax line") have to pay the league oodles of money in penalties.

Lin will earn an eye-popping $14.8 million in the third year of his $25.1 million contract. This would put the Knicks way, way over the luxury tax line considering they're already committed to Carmelo Anthony, Amar'e Stoudemire, Tyson Chandler, and Steve Novak for that 2014-2015 season.

But how much, exactly, will it cost the Knicks to keep Lin? And is that cost really astronomical enough to let Lin walk only a few months after he exploded into an international phenomenon in NYC?

The answer largely depends on what other roster moves the Knicks make in the coming years. But we estimate that NY's luxury tax penalty for 2014-15, with Lin, would be at least $17.5 million and at most $68 million, with the likely number ~$35.5 million. Without him, it would be between $0 to $20.5 million, with the likely number ~$4.2 million.

So signing Lin would cost the Knicks between $17.5 million and $48.5 million just in luxury tax penalties, with ~$31.3 million being the most likely number. If you add Lin's $25.1 million contract to that luxury rate number, it will cost the Knicks between $42.6 million and $73.6 million to re-sign Lin, with $54.6 million being the most likely estimate.

Here's how we got to those numbers:

First, we took a look at the Knicks possible roster for 2013-2014. If they honored the contracts of everyone they have on their roster now, and retained their 2013 first-round draft pick, their estimated roster and salary commitments would look like this:
•Carmelo Anthony: $23.5 million
•Amar'e Stoudemire: $23.4 million
•Jeremy Lin: $14.8 million
•Tyson Chandler: $14.6 million
•Raymond Felton (rumored deal worth $18 million over four years): $4.5 million
•Steve Novak: $3.8 million
•Marcus Camby (non-guaranteed): $3.2 million
•Jason Kidd: $3 million
•Iman Shumpert (team option): $2.7 million
•2013 first-round pick: $1.3 million
•Three roster spots at the league minimum: ~$1.5 million

This comes out to $96.3 million in payroll, and is probably the most the Knicks will possibly spend. It involves them keeping Marcus Camby (unlikely, considering his contract isn't guaranteed), picking up Iman Shumpert's option, keeping the player they draft with their first-round pick in 2013, and retaining both Jason Kidd's expiring contract and Raymond Felton's contract. In short, it's unlikely that the payroll will be $96.3 million.

But it's definitely possible. And in that scenario, the Knicks would be $26 million over the luxury tax threshold. With the new tax structure, that yields a luxury tax bill of $68 million. (*scroll to the bottom for the nitty-gritty methodology). Without Lin and his $14.8 million contract, the payroll would be $82 million, and the tax bill would be $20.5 million, $48.5 million less than if they kept him.

Once you start trimming the deadwood from the roster, though, the tax number gets more and more palatable.

If they let Marcus Camby walk and replaced him with a minimum salary player, their total payroll would be $93.5 million. That yields a tax bill of $57 million. Without Lin, it'd be $14.3 million.

If they let Camby go and declined to pick up Shumpert's team option, their total payroll would be $91.4 million. That yields a tax bill of $49.1 million. Without Lin, it'd be $10.6 million

If they let Camby go, declined Shumpert's option, and offloaded Raymond Felton, their total payroll would be $87.4 million.That yields a tax bill of $35.6 million. All things considered, this is probably the most likely scenario.

If they let Camby go, declined Shumpert's option, and offloaded Raymond Felton, their total payroll would be $87.4 million. That yields a tax bill of $35.6 million. All things considered, this is probably the most likely scenario.

Their roster would be Anthony, Stoudemire, Lin, Chandler, Novak, Kidd, their 2013 first-rounder, and six minimum salary guys. That's pretty thin, and they probably won't shed any more contracts than that if they want to stay competitive. Without Lin, it'd be $4.2 million

BUT, if they wanted to keep cutting salary, they could. If they somehow got rid of Kidd (in addition to Camby, Shumpert, and Felton), they'd have a payroll of $84.9 million. That yields a $27.75 million tax bill. Without Lin, it'd be $450,000.

If they went further and traded their 2013 first-rounder, they'd have a payroll of $84.1 million. That'd yield a tax bill of $25.75 million. Without Lin, they wouldn't pay the luxury tax.

And if they got really, really crazy and burned the roster to the ground, only keeping Anthony, Stoudemire, Lin, Chandler, and 9 minimum salary players, they'd get the payroll down to $80.5 million. That'd yield a tax bill of $17.5 million. Without Lin, they wouldn't pay the luxury tax.

So, in short, the least they could pay in luxury taxes if they signed Lin is $17.5 million, the most they could pay is $68 million, and the likely number is $35.5 million.

When you compare that to their luxury tax obligation without Lin, that translates into between $17.5 million and $48.5 million in savings, with $31.3 million in savings in the most likely scenario.

If we add that estimated 2014-15 luxury tax bill to his $25.1 salary, we estimate that it will cost the Knicks $56.4 million to sign Jeremy Lin. But that number could get as high as $73.6 million and as low as $42.6 million.

That's a lot for a guy who has started less than 40 games in his NBA career. But is it too much?

In February, Forbes estimated that Lin would boost team revenues by $25-$50 million in the 2012-2013 season alone. Over the course of his contract, that works out to between $75 million and $150 million in value. In addition, MSG has seen it's market cap grow by $600 million since Linsanity began.

Even if the Knicks go wild and push their payroll to $96+ million in 2013-14, Lin's estimated off-the-field value exceeds the massive luxury tax hit.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*The tax structure is broke up into tiers. The more you go over the luxury tax line, the higher your tax rate is. If the Knicks were $26 million over the line, they'd pay $7.5 million for going over the $5 million tier, $8.75 million for going over the $10 million tier, $12.5 million for going over the $15 million tier, and $16.25 over going over the $20 million tier. The remaining $6 million that they're over line will be taxed as follows: $5 million at a 3.75X rate, and $1 million at a 4.25X rate. So $7.5M+$8.75M+$12.5M+$16.25M+($5M x 3.75)+($1M x 4.25) comes out to a $68 million bill.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/knicks-jeremy-lin-luxury-tax-penalty-could-hit-68-million-2012-7#ixzz2kaKQcJw4


Morey knew what he was doing and knew the Knicks situation.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
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11/13/2013  7:11 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
JohnStarksFan wrote:
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:It's not even about being right. I didn't create this thread to run it in. How does rubbing it in help matters? I'm still feeling sick knowing that we finally had a young talented guard fall in our lap. The whole time it's been about how Melo needs help. It was the most fun I had watching this team since the Ewing Knicks by far. And we kicked him out the door because Dolan was drunk. We didn't even offer him a ****in contract!! We persued 40yr old Nash!!

Dolan and this team deserves the current state they find themselves in. I feel for the fans who are trying to remain positive and hopeful

Only James Dolan could have Jeremy Lin fall into his lap, get a ruling that allows us to retain his bird rights (thus sacrificing nothing in terms of building a team)...

and then screw it up.

I agree, but the Rockets offer would not have been matched anyways with that poison pill at the end of the deal. Remember, Lin gets $15 million the last year of the 3 year deal. But the fact that they didn't even put out the offer? Why not just make him the same offer as JR with no cap hit in terms of ability to sign new players. We would have been in the same position luxury tax wise. Still that deal makes him $8.3 a year player, and that would have made him too expensive.

It's up for debate whether Lin is an $8.3M per year player.
For every other team in the league that offer was too expensive to match.
Thing is for the Knicks....he was worth it simply due to the Bird Rights thing. We obviously don't give a damn about the luxury tax because we spent $ on Marcus Camby, Novak, Felton. We took on money in Bargnani.

If it was any other team I would say that what happened was a basketball and business decision.

But the whole Chris Smith situation is proof of the fact that things are done diff. when Dolan is running the team

Yeah but with the new cba his deal would be 15 mil on the cap in year three and with the Knicks cap situation the tax they would have to pay on top of that was ridiculous. That was why Houston was able to do the poison pill deal.

Please. You're talking about a corporation (Cablevision) worth billions and you're worrying about a low 8 figure amount of money?

This has been discussed many times and it is in the past. Year three of his deal would have cost the Knicks 15 million not 8.3 million. Because of the Knicks cap situation it would cost them many millions over this. Here are the details if you care to read them.
It Could Actually Cost The Knicks $73 Million To Keep Jeremy Lin


Tony Manfred Jul. 16, 2012, 9:59 AM 9,020 11



inShare.5



 Email
 More



jeremy lin new york knicks
Mike Ehrmann/Getty Images


Here's the popular explanation for why the Knicks are (maybe) going to let Jeremy Lin go: the luxury tax bill in the third year of Lin's deal would be way too high.

After the lockout, the NBA raised its luxury tax rate — meaning teams that exceed the $70.3 million payroll threshold (the "luxury tax line") have to pay the league oodles of money in penalties.

Lin will earn an eye-popping $14.8 million in the third year of his $25.1 million contract. This would put the Knicks way, way over the luxury tax line considering they're already committed to Carmelo Anthony, Amar'e Stoudemire, Tyson Chandler, and Steve Novak for that 2014-2015 season.

But how much, exactly, will it cost the Knicks to keep Lin? And is that cost really astronomical enough to let Lin walk only a few months after he exploded into an international phenomenon in NYC?

The answer largely depends on what other roster moves the Knicks make in the coming years. But we estimate that NY's luxury tax penalty for 2014-15, with Lin, would be at least $17.5 million and at most $68 million, with the likely number ~$35.5 million. Without him, it would be between $0 to $20.5 million, with the likely number ~$4.2 million.

So signing Lin would cost the Knicks between $17.5 million and $48.5 million just in luxury tax penalties, with ~$31.3 million being the most likely number. If you add Lin's $25.1 million contract to that luxury rate number, it will cost the Knicks between $42.6 million and $73.6 million to re-sign Lin, with $54.6 million being the most likely estimate.

Here's how we got to those numbers:

First, we took a look at the Knicks possible roster for 2013-2014. If they honored the contracts of everyone they have on their roster now, and retained their 2013 first-round draft pick, their estimated roster and salary commitments would look like this:
•Carmelo Anthony: $23.5 million
•Amar'e Stoudemire: $23.4 million
•Jeremy Lin: $14.8 million
•Tyson Chandler: $14.6 million
•Raymond Felton (rumored deal worth $18 million over four years): $4.5 million
•Steve Novak: $3.8 million
•Marcus Camby (non-guaranteed): $3.2 million
•Jason Kidd: $3 million
•Iman Shumpert (team option): $2.7 million
•2013 first-round pick: $1.3 million
•Three roster spots at the league minimum: ~$1.5 million

This comes out to $96.3 million in payroll, and is probably the most the Knicks will possibly spend. It involves them keeping Marcus Camby (unlikely, considering his contract isn't guaranteed), picking up Iman Shumpert's option, keeping the player they draft with their first-round pick in 2013, and retaining both Jason Kidd's expiring contract and Raymond Felton's contract. In short, it's unlikely that the payroll will be $96.3 million.

But it's definitely possible. And in that scenario, the Knicks would be $26 million over the luxury tax threshold. With the new tax structure, that yields a luxury tax bill of $68 million. (*scroll to the bottom for the nitty-gritty methodology). Without Lin and his $14.8 million contract, the payroll would be $82 million, and the tax bill would be $20.5 million, $48.5 million less than if they kept him.

Once you start trimming the deadwood from the roster, though, the tax number gets more and more palatable.

If they let Marcus Camby walk and replaced him with a minimum salary player, their total payroll would be $93.5 million. That yields a tax bill of $57 million. Without Lin, it'd be $14.3 million.

If they let Camby go and declined to pick up Shumpert's team option, their total payroll would be $91.4 million. That yields a tax bill of $49.1 million. Without Lin, it'd be $10.6 million

If they let Camby go, declined Shumpert's option, and offloaded Raymond Felton, their total payroll would be $87.4 million.That yields a tax bill of $35.6 million. All things considered, this is probably the most likely scenario.

If they let Camby go, declined Shumpert's option, and offloaded Raymond Felton, their total payroll would be $87.4 million. That yields a tax bill of $35.6 million. All things considered, this is probably the most likely scenario.

Their roster would be Anthony, Stoudemire, Lin, Chandler, Novak, Kidd, their 2013 first-rounder, and six minimum salary guys. That's pretty thin, and they probably won't shed any more contracts than that if they want to stay competitive. Without Lin, it'd be $4.2 million

BUT, if they wanted to keep cutting salary, they could. If they somehow got rid of Kidd (in addition to Camby, Shumpert, and Felton), they'd have a payroll of $84.9 million. That yields a $27.75 million tax bill. Without Lin, it'd be $450,000.

If they went further and traded their 2013 first-rounder, they'd have a payroll of $84.1 million. That'd yield a tax bill of $25.75 million. Without Lin, they wouldn't pay the luxury tax.

And if they got really, really crazy and burned the roster to the ground, only keeping Anthony, Stoudemire, Lin, Chandler, and 9 minimum salary players, they'd get the payroll down to $80.5 million. That'd yield a tax bill of $17.5 million. Without Lin, they wouldn't pay the luxury tax.

So, in short, the least they could pay in luxury taxes if they signed Lin is $17.5 million, the most they could pay is $68 million, and the likely number is $35.5 million.

When you compare that to their luxury tax obligation without Lin, that translates into between $17.5 million and $48.5 million in savings, with $31.3 million in savings in the most likely scenario.

If we add that estimated 2014-15 luxury tax bill to his $25.1 salary, we estimate that it will cost the Knicks $56.4 million to sign Jeremy Lin. But that number could get as high as $73.6 million and as low as $42.6 million.

That's a lot for a guy who has started less than 40 games in his NBA career. But is it too much?

In February, Forbes estimated that Lin would boost team revenues by $25-$50 million in the 2012-2013 season alone. Over the course of his contract, that works out to between $75 million and $150 million in value. In addition, MSG has seen it's market cap grow by $600 million since Linsanity began.

Even if the Knicks go wild and push their payroll to $96+ million in 2013-14, Lin's estimated off-the-field value exceeds the massive luxury tax hit.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*The tax structure is broke up into tiers. The more you go over the luxury tax line, the higher your tax rate is. If the Knicks were $26 million over the line, they'd pay $7.5 million for going over the $5 million tier, $8.75 million for going over the $10 million tier, $12.5 million for going over the $15 million tier, and $16.25 over going over the $20 million tier. The remaining $6 million that they're over line will be taxed as follows: $5 million at a 3.75X rate, and $1 million at a 4.25X rate. So $7.5M+$8.75M+$12.5M+$16.25M+($5M x 3.75)+($1M x 4.25) comes out to a $68 million bill.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/knicks-jeremy-lin-luxury-tax-penalty-could-hit-68-million-2012-7#ixzz2kaKQcJw4


Morey knew what he was doing and knew the Knicks situation.

I know all that. That's why I said a small 8 figure amount for a corporation worth exponentially more. It's like you telling me I'm gonna have to pay a 50 cent toll if I take a scenic route to work or a 30 cent toll if I take boring route.

gunsnewing
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11/13/2013  7:23 PM
More like 50 cent toll vs 45 cent toll
ToddTT
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11/13/2013  7:38 PM
I thought Jeremy was pretty good. Do people think we should have considered keeping him?
Oh good lord... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XkmGrX7O0lQ
GodSaveTheKnicks
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11/13/2013  7:42 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
JohnStarksFan wrote:
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:It's not even about being right. I didn't create this thread to run it in. How does rubbing it in help matters? I'm still feeling sick knowing that we finally had a young talented guard fall in our lap. The whole time it's been about how Melo needs help. It was the most fun I had watching this team since the Ewing Knicks by far. And we kicked him out the door because Dolan was drunk. We didn't even offer him a ****in contract!! We persued 40yr old Nash!!

Dolan and this team deserves the current state they find themselves in. I feel for the fans who are trying to remain positive and hopeful

Only James Dolan could have Jeremy Lin fall into his lap, get a ruling that allows us to retain his bird rights (thus sacrificing nothing in terms of building a team)...

and then screw it up.

I agree, but the Rockets offer would not have been matched anyways with that poison pill at the end of the deal. Remember, Lin gets $15 million the last year of the 3 year deal. But the fact that they didn't even put out the offer? Why not just make him the same offer as JR with no cap hit in terms of ability to sign new players. We would have been in the same position luxury tax wise. Still that deal makes him $8.3 a year player, and that would have made him too expensive.

It's up for debate whether Lin is an $8.3M per year player.
For every other team in the league that offer was too expensive to match.
Thing is for the Knicks....he was worth it simply due to the Bird Rights thing. We obviously don't give a damn about the luxury tax because we spent $ on Marcus Camby, Novak, Felton. We took on money in Bargnani.

If it was any other team I would say that what happened was a basketball and business decision.

But the whole Chris Smith situation is proof of the fact that things are done diff. when Dolan is running the team

Yeah but with the new cba his deal would be 15 mil on the cap in year three and with the Knicks cap situation the tax they would have to pay on top of that was ridiculous. That was why Houston was able to do the poison pill deal.

Yeah. I'd be interested in seeing what the cost was to the Knicks with all the repeater tax, etc vs what we ended up spending that money on.

The bigger worry is not so much Lin, it's more just the series of horribly bad decisions we've witnessed over the last decade.

Lost in all the talk about whether using the amnesty on Chauncey to sign Tyson vs saving it for Amare and his bum knees is the fact that...

if we didn't exercise the $14.2 M option on Chauncey, we wouldn't have had to amnesty him in the first place.

That means we would have had room to sign Tyson AND still had the amnesty in our back pocket to use on Amare.

Imagine the current Knicks team WITH $20M to spend on a player or a few players instead of Amare....

Ex:

PG: Jeff Teague $8 M, Felton
SG: Shumpert, JR
SF: Iguodala $12 M
PF: Melo
C: Chandler

You know how there are other teams in the league that aren't contenders but you still have fun watching (Minnesota, Phoenix,etc)..we're not even that.

The Knicks just make me so frustrated and sad when I think about how they run the team. And it's really sad cuz the city (and board) is filled with die hards just DYING to see a competently run team that looks like it has a PLAN, plays together and plays hard.

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
CrushAlot
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11/13/2013  7:46 PM
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
JohnStarksFan wrote:
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:It's not even about being right. I didn't create this thread to run it in. How does rubbing it in help matters? I'm still feeling sick knowing that we finally had a young talented guard fall in our lap. The whole time it's been about how Melo needs help. It was the most fun I had watching this team since the Ewing Knicks by far. And we kicked him out the door because Dolan was drunk. We didn't even offer him a ****in contract!! We persued 40yr old Nash!!

Dolan and this team deserves the current state they find themselves in. I feel for the fans who are trying to remain positive and hopeful

Only James Dolan could have Jeremy Lin fall into his lap, get a ruling that allows us to retain his bird rights (thus sacrificing nothing in terms of building a team)...

and then screw it up.

I agree, but the Rockets offer would not have been matched anyways with that poison pill at the end of the deal. Remember, Lin gets $15 million the last year of the 3 year deal. But the fact that they didn't even put out the offer? Why not just make him the same offer as JR with no cap hit in terms of ability to sign new players. We would have been in the same position luxury tax wise. Still that deal makes him $8.3 a year player, and that would have made him too expensive.

It's up for debate whether Lin is an $8.3M per year player.
For every other team in the league that offer was too expensive to match.
Thing is for the Knicks....he was worth it simply due to the Bird Rights thing. We obviously don't give a damn about the luxury tax because we spent $ on Marcus Camby, Novak, Felton. We took on money in Bargnani.

If it was any other team I would say that what happened was a basketball and business decision.

But the whole Chris Smith situation is proof of the fact that things are done diff. when Dolan is running the team

Yeah but with the new cba his deal would be 15 mil on the cap in year three and with the Knicks cap situation the tax they would have to pay on top of that was ridiculous. That was why Houston was able to do the poison pill deal.

Yeah. I'd be interested in seeing what the cost was to the Knicks with all the repeater tax, etc vs what we ended up spending that money on.

The bigger worry is not so much Lin, it's more just the series of horribly bad decisions we've witnessed over the last decade.

Lost in all the talk about whether using the amnesty on Chauncey to sign Tyson vs saving it for Amare and his bum knees is the fact that...

if we didn't exercise the $14.2 M option on Chauncey, we wouldn't have had to amnesty him in the first place.

That means we would have had room to sign Tyson AND still had the amnesty in our back pocket to use on Amare.

Imagine the current Knicks team WITH $20M to spend on a player or a few players instead of Amare....

Ex:

PG: Jeff Teague $8 M, Felton
SG: Shumpert, JR
SF: Iguodala $12 M
PF: Melo
C: Chandler

You know how there are other teams in the league that aren't contenders but you still have fun watching (Minnesota, Phoenix,etc)..we're not even that.

The Knicks just make me so frustrated and sad when I think about how they run the team. And it's really sad cuz the city (and board) is filled with die hards just DYING to see a competently run team that looks like it has a PLAN, plays together and plays hard.

I think Grunwald had the right idea and was trying to make the team the best they could be. His firing was ridiculous. The Mills and Chris Smith moves just really don't make sense. Nothing seems anywhere close to stable and Woodson doesn't appear to have any autonomy.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
GodSaveTheKnicks
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11/13/2013  8:04 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
JohnStarksFan wrote:
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:It's not even about being right. I didn't create this thread to run it in. How does rubbing it in help matters? I'm still feeling sick knowing that we finally had a young talented guard fall in our lap. The whole time it's been about how Melo needs help. It was the most fun I had watching this team since the Ewing Knicks by far. And we kicked him out the door because Dolan was drunk. We didn't even offer him a ****in contract!! We persued 40yr old Nash!!

Dolan and this team deserves the current state they find themselves in. I feel for the fans who are trying to remain positive and hopeful

Only James Dolan could have Jeremy Lin fall into his lap, get a ruling that allows us to retain his bird rights (thus sacrificing nothing in terms of building a team)...

and then screw it up.

I agree, but the Rockets offer would not have been matched anyways with that poison pill at the end of the deal. Remember, Lin gets $15 million the last year of the 3 year deal. But the fact that they didn't even put out the offer? Why not just make him the same offer as JR with no cap hit in terms of ability to sign new players. We would have been in the same position luxury tax wise. Still that deal makes him $8.3 a year player, and that would have made him too expensive.

It's up for debate whether Lin is an $8.3M per year player.
For every other team in the league that offer was too expensive to match.
Thing is for the Knicks....he was worth it simply due to the Bird Rights thing. We obviously don't give a damn about the luxury tax because we spent $ on Marcus Camby, Novak, Felton. We took on money in Bargnani.

If it was any other team I would say that what happened was a basketball and business decision.

But the whole Chris Smith situation is proof of the fact that things are done diff. when Dolan is running the team

Yeah but with the new cba his deal would be 15 mil on the cap in year three and with the Knicks cap situation the tax they would have to pay on top of that was ridiculous. That was why Houston was able to do the poison pill deal.

Yeah. I'd be interested in seeing what the cost was to the Knicks with all the repeater tax, etc vs what we ended up spending that money on.

The bigger worry is not so much Lin, it's more just the series of horribly bad decisions we've witnessed over the last decade.

Lost in all the talk about whether using the amnesty on Chauncey to sign Tyson vs saving it for Amare and his bum knees is the fact that...

if we didn't exercise the $14.2 M option on Chauncey, we wouldn't have had to amnesty him in the first place.

That means we would have had room to sign Tyson AND still had the amnesty in our back pocket to use on Amare.

Imagine the current Knicks team WITH $20M to spend on a player or a few players instead of Amare....

Ex:

PG: Jeff Teague $8 M, Felton
SG: Shumpert, JR
SF: Iguodala $12 M
PF: Melo
C: Chandler

You know how there are other teams in the league that aren't contenders but you still have fun watching (Minnesota, Phoenix,etc)..we're not even that.

The Knicks just make me so frustrated and sad when I think about how they run the team. And it's really sad cuz the city (and board) is filled with die hards just DYING to see a competently run team that looks like it has a PLAN, plays together and plays hard.

I think Grunwald had the right idea and was trying to make the team the best they could be. His firing was ridiculous. The Mills and Chris Smith moves just really don't make sense. Nothing seems anywhere close to stable and Woodson doesn't appear to have any autonomy.

You said it. Grunwald and Donnie weren't exactly pulling any Pat Riley, Masai, Morey type of deals. They whiffed on some picks and maybe some signings too BUT they were respected, competent and had a plan.

I have huge issue with Woodson's constant switching on defense and the team's tendency to go into iso-Melo mode, especially in crunchtime is infuriating. That being said, to fire him when Tyson is hurt, JR is clearly rusty and working his way back, Melo isn't his usual scoring machine self, would be another knee jerk Dolan move.

If you didn't have faith in Woodson, the time to fire him was during the offseason and you better be bringing in someone with a track record (Phil Jackson, Jerry Sloan, either Van Gundy, Rick Carlisle,etc) or take a chance on a Brad Stevens.

If we fire him in season...which I think is coming...who do we bring in and what are they going to do with an underperforming, unhealthy team? Install all new schemes?

Eat your veggies Crush. Hit the gym. Buy some fish oil capsules. We gotta wait out Dolan.

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
VCoug
Posts: 24935
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Member: #1406

11/13/2013  8:19 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
JohnStarksFan wrote:
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:It's not even about being right. I didn't create this thread to run it in. How does rubbing it in help matters? I'm still feeling sick knowing that we finally had a young talented guard fall in our lap. The whole time it's been about how Melo needs help. It was the most fun I had watching this team since the Ewing Knicks by far. And we kicked him out the door because Dolan was drunk. We didn't even offer him a ****in contract!! We persued 40yr old Nash!!

Dolan and this team deserves the current state they find themselves in. I feel for the fans who are trying to remain positive and hopeful

Only James Dolan could have Jeremy Lin fall into his lap, get a ruling that allows us to retain his bird rights (thus sacrificing nothing in terms of building a team)...

and then screw it up.

I agree, but the Rockets offer would not have been matched anyways with that poison pill at the end of the deal. Remember, Lin gets $15 million the last year of the 3 year deal. But the fact that they didn't even put out the offer? Why not just make him the same offer as JR with no cap hit in terms of ability to sign new players. We would have been in the same position luxury tax wise. Still that deal makes him $8.3 a year player, and that would have made him too expensive.

It's up for debate whether Lin is an $8.3M per year player.
For every other team in the league that offer was too expensive to match.
Thing is for the Knicks....he was worth it simply due to the Bird Rights thing. We obviously don't give a damn about the luxury tax because we spent $ on Marcus Camby, Novak, Felton. We took on money in Bargnani.

If it was any other team I would say that what happened was a basketball and business decision.

But the whole Chris Smith situation is proof of the fact that things are done diff. when Dolan is running the team

Yeah but with the new cba his deal would be 15 mil on the cap in year three and with the Knicks cap situation the tax they would have to pay on top of that was ridiculous. That was why Houston was able to do the poison pill deal.

Including taxes, we're paying more for Bargnani over two years then we would have paid Lin over three years.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
NumberTwoPencil
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11/13/2013  10:06 PM
Lin tonight against the 76ers: 34 and 12.

(I still think he should play for someone other than McHale.)

Uptown
Posts: 31285
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Member: #1883

11/13/2013  10:11 PM
NumberTwoPencil wrote:Lin tonight against the 76ers: 34 and 12.

(I still think he should play for someone other than McHale.)

Good numbers but not good enough for a W....

Jmpasq
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11/13/2013  10:14 PM
NumberTwoPencil wrote:Lin tonight against the 76ers: 34 and 12.

(I still think he should play for someone other than McHale.)

8 Turnovers as well

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
CrushAlot
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Member: #452
USA
11/13/2013  10:54 PM
What about that second year guard for Philly, Wroten.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
NYKBocker
Posts: 38389
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11/13/2013  11:17 PM
earthmansurfer
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11/14/2013  2:14 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
NumberTwoPencil wrote:Lin tonight against the 76ers: 34 and 12.

(I still think he should play for someone other than McHale.)

8 Turnovers as well

Give me a break, Harden was out and he was trying to make things happened and almost did. If Felton put up a line like that, man...

He would be the second best player on this team. Think about that. A smart guy that is clutch. Man would we be a better team.

Him on this team, would have brought us that much closer to a championship. Does anyone think this team as constructed has a chance?
Slim...

Don't worry, you'll get to see how much better he is than anyone on our team (not Melo) tonight and again on Jan 3rd.

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
Clean
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11/14/2013  4:11 AM
I love me some Lin but, I would have thought he would have solved his turnover problem by now.
Syniko
Posts: 20806
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Member: #3969

11/14/2013  4:43 AM
There was chart on the records Lin was breaking in his first 10 or so games and it was beyond wild because he threw himself into the company of elite players with those figures. He can now notch up two more records under his belt by tying with Robert Horry as the 2nd Rockets to score 9 three's. A franchise tie and tie with Antoine Walker as the only two NBA players to score 9 3's and have 12 assists.

That last three Lin attempted was blocked. He probably would have made it too since he was playing out of his mind.

smackeddog
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11/14/2013  4:56 AM
Jmpasq wrote:
NumberTwoPencil wrote:Lin tonight against the 76ers: 34 and 12.

(I still think he should play for someone other than McHale.)

8 Turnovers as well

And -11 in +/- (2nd worst)- didn't watch the game so I've no idea if he had a good game or not. What I do like is he played 48mins, so hopefully he's tired for tonights game!

smackeddog
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11/14/2013  5:02 AM
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:
if we didn't exercise the $14.2 M option on Chauncey, we wouldn't have had to amnesty him in the first place.

That means we would have had room to sign Tyson AND still had the amnesty in our back pocket to use on Amare.

Imagine the current Knicks team WITH $20M to spend on a player or a few players instead of Amare....

Annoying, isn't it? In Walsh's defense, I get where he was coming from- we had Amar'e & Melo on the roster, but the rest was absolute garbage and we were capped out, so I guess the logic was to hold on to your assets by picking up Billups option, and then either keep him for the season as your PG, or use him in a trade.

I also get Grunnies decision to go after Tyson. What I don't get is the Knicks must have known about Amar'es knees being guaranteed to break down ONE SEASON later- why the heck wouldn't you keep the amnesty provision for when that starts to happen? Fair enough you miss out on Tyson, but you can sign one to two max players the following season. Just a real lack of patience and forward thinking.

OT: Jeremy Lin

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