gunsnewing wrote:Berman said Mills also pushed for the mcdyess trade. As you can see the problems go deeper than the GM with this joke of an organiztion

I know Layden got the fans ire about that deal, and Nalod been trying to tell the faithful its not just one man, its organizational failure and don't make deals like that unless its with the owners blessing and directive.

Dolan been doing this crap for years so I don't know why some of you are giving pause to your faith in them with this move.

I know some of you give me crap about the Nets but when you don't have faith that your team is truely devoted to winning then it leaves the door open.

For whats its worth I thought Dolans spending was nuts but it was at least a sign he was trying even if it was done irrationally.
Prokhorov is insane what he is spending and I admire the effort. The season will tell the tale, not the concept.

MSG always interesting!

It's pretty obvious Mills has no business dealing with player personnel and day to day operations. As awful as Layden, Isiah and Donnie were at least they were basketball people. Man what a frickin mess. Again thank god my expectations were monumentally lowered going into this season compared to last.

It's pretty obvious now that Mills is the guy in Dolans ear pushing for a splash at every turn, mcdyess, Marbury and maybe even signing H20 to $100mil. Complete disregard for the cap and roster flexibility and development of players. Maybe this is why Dolan loves Isiah because he hasn't thrown him and mills under the bus. They like that he is loyal unlike well res[/quote]pected executives and coaches who tell it like it is

I guess there could be a general assumption that this was a ticky-tack, short term move and we all hate Dolan because of it. Grunwald has done a decent enough job over past few years with very little wiggle room and because of this should stay on. No major **** up, so why not keep him?

What is there left to do over the next year or 2 that Gabriel or Warkentien or Houston couldn't do?

Is this about short term returns that Grunwald didn't or couldn't provide or a move that is geared towards 2015 when you are trying to pull Melo with at least 1 other star? And if it is, is this about agents and agencies and relationships more than it is about tactical basketball stuff? Mills is tight with a buttload of agents and counterparts, perhaps to a much larger degree than Grunwald.

When was a good time to move on from Grunwald if now was not? Mid-season? End of season? Was there really more orchestrating that the Knicks could do over the next year when team is capped out and hamstrung by no more spending until 2015 to preserve cap?

Is this a move about today or tomorrow?

martin wrote:I have a different response than most.

I guess there could be a general assumption that this was a ticky-tack, short term move and we all hate Dolan because of it. Grunwald has done a decent enough job over past few years with very little wiggle room and because of this should stay on. No major **** up, so why not keep him?

What is there left to do over the next year or 2 that Gabriel or Warkentien or Houston couldn't do?

Is this about short term returns that Grunwald didn't or couldn't provide or a move that is geared towards 2015 when you are trying to pull Melo with at least 1 other star? And if it is, is this about agents and agencies and relationships more than it is about tactical basketball stuff? Mills is tight with a buttload of agents and counterparts, perhaps to a much larger degree than Grunwald.

When was a good time to move on from Grunwald if now was not? Mid-season? End of season? Was there really more orchestrating that the Knicks could do over the next year when team is capped out and hamstrung by no more spending until 2015 to preserve cap?

Is this a move about today or tomorrow?

I agree with this view..Mills is more charismatic and Dolan don't want to be caught in the situation that Donnie was caught in during the run at LeBron...I also doubt Mills will be making personnel decisions or I'm hoping he doesn't..He may just be the finance guy/front man/ media guy/keeping the spot warm until the real guy steps forward...

martin wrote:I have a different response than most.

I guess there could be a general assumption that this was a ticky-tack, short term move and we all hate Dolan because of it. Grunwald has done a decent enough job over past few years with very little wiggle room and because of this should stay on. No major **** up, so why not keep him?

What is there left to do over the next year or 2 that Gabriel or Warkentien or Houston couldn't do?

Is this about short term returns that Grunwald didn't or couldn't provide or a move that is geared towards 2015 when you are trying to pull Melo with at least 1 other star? And if it is, is this about agents and agencies and relationships more than it is about tactical basketball stuff? Mills is tight with a buttload of agents and counterparts, perhaps to a much larger degree than Grunwald.

When was a good time to move on from Grunwald if now was not? Mid-season? End of season? Was there really more orchestrating that the Knicks could do over the next year when team is capped out and hamstrung by no more spending until 2015 to preserve cap?

Is this a move about today or tomorrow?

I've said it before and I'll say it again...I don't jump to tear Dolan apart like most others. And I understand your point about this possibly being a strategic move. but the timing is horrible. 5 days before camp? I don't know. Maybe it'll work out in the end, but Donny and Grunwald are the 2 best GM's we've had since the 90's. Both were completely crapped on. And now Mills and this regime might want to do a signature move and screw with the first roster that has had time to gel in years.

Finally, this has been stated already but this may be bad news for Shump. Woodson and Grunwald are huge supporters of his. His position is now at risk. I pray that if he's moved it's for nothing less than a Rondo type.

MSG3 wrote:

martin wrote:I have a different response than most.

I guess there could be a general assumption that this was a ticky-tack, short term move and we all hate Dolan because of it. Grunwald has done a decent enough job over past few years with very little wiggle room and because of this should stay on. No major **** up, so why not keep him?

What is there left to do over the next year or 2 that Gabriel or Warkentien or Houston couldn't do?

Is this about short term returns that Grunwald didn't or couldn't provide or a move that is geared towards 2015 when you are trying to pull Melo with at least 1 other star? And if it is, is this about agents and agencies and relationships more than it is about tactical basketball stuff? Mills is tight with a buttload of agents and counterparts, perhaps to a much larger degree than Grunwald.

When was a good time to move on from Grunwald if now was not? Mid-season? End of season? Was there really more orchestrating that the Knicks could do over the next year when team is capped out and hamstrung by no more spending until 2015 to preserve cap?

Is this a move about today or tomorrow?

I've said it before and I'll say it again...I don't jump to tear Dolan apart like most others. And I understand your point about this possibly being a strategic move. but the timing is horrible. 5 days before camp? I don't know. Maybe it'll work out in the end, but Donny and Grunwald are the 2 best GM's we've had since the 90's. Both were completely crapped on. And now Mills and this regime might want to do a signature move and screw with the first roster that has had time to gel in years.

Finally, this has been stated already but this may be bad news for Shump. Woodson and Grunwald are huge supporters of his. His position is now at risk. I pray that if he's moved it's for nothing less than a Rondo type.

He did his work for this year. When would have been a good time to let him go? And/or if this is a strategic move (and obviously I have no idea that it is), why wait?

MSG3 wrote:

I've said it before and I'll say it again...I don't jump to tear Dolan apart like most others. And I understand your point about this possibly being a strategic move. but the timing is horrible. 5 days before camp? I don't know. Maybe it'll work out in the end, but Donny and Grunwald are the 2 best GM's we've had since the 90's. Both were completely crapped on. And now Mills and this regime might want to do a signature move and screw with the first roster that has had time to gel in years.

Finally, this has been stated already but this may be bad news for Shump. Woodson and Grunwald are huge supporters of his. His position is now at risk. I pray that if he's moved it's for nothing less than a Rondo type.

Timing of it basically sends out a message to the players: "I have no faith in this team" right before training camp- abysmal timing.

I'm not expecting a Shump for Rondo trade, prepare yourself for someone like Monta Ellis- i.e. a flashy name that doesn't even remotely fit, and is a bad defender.

smackeddog wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

I've said it before and I'll say it again...I don't jump to tear Dolan apart like most others. And I understand your point about this possibly being a strategic move. but the timing is horrible. 5 days before camp? I don't know. Maybe it'll work out in the end, but Donny and Grunwald are the 2 best GM's we've had since the 90's. Both were completely crapped on. And now Mills and this regime might want to do a signature move and screw with the first roster that has had time to gel in years.

Finally, this has been stated already but this may be bad news for Shump. Woodson and Grunwald are huge supporters of his. His position is now at risk. I pray that if he's moved it's for nothing less than a Rondo type.

Timing of it basically sends out a message to the players: "I have no faith in this team" right before training camp- abysmal timing.

I'm not expecting a Shump for Rondo trade, prepare yourself for someone like Monta Ellis- i.e. a flashy name that doesn't even remotely fit, and is a bad defender.

Exactly! He is up near the top of th list of players I'm working on who Mills will target. Is Brandon Jennings still on the bucks? He would be another

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Not that it matters but I don't see how the players will play hard this year knowing the coach will be canned

players don't play hard for their coaches. They play hard for themselves so that they can get bigger contracts. And some may actually be motivated to help the team too.

eh, there is alot of that,

a lot of playing for the team, too, i think. they quit on mda, and went on a 20 (16?) under woody when he was new,

now there is no backing from the big seats, so it will be tough to find team cohesion, to find the Brotherhood and Unity