tkf wrote:on a side note martin. I have been a mod on another site for many years.. I have had to deal with disgruntled posters, homers, etc.. every type of fan.... and I will say this, I have been a knick fan longer than carmelo has been playing basketball. I consistently put up with being called a troll and you do nothing about it.. but if I talk negative of carmelo, then I am being modded... One thing I never did was mod opinions, and believe me, I had to fight the urge at times to do so. I enjoy talking ball with you and some others, but don't like the attacks that come my way.. the troll thing, is getting old..

I have been a diehard fan for many, many years.. the knicks have to earn my fandom...

well how about stop posting about your disdain regarding Melo in every thread. You do that and I am sure the troll posts will stop.

Let me give you and example of such a post that has nothing to do with topic and all about you and your dislike of one player, your post in this thread about Udrih:

tkf wrote:why is it taking a lot of convincing to get him here? i thought all free agents would flock here to come play with carmelo? or so I was told...

If this was only a 1-off I don't think anyone would really care and I certainly wouldn't, but it's not. You created this situation yourself and I'd really like it to stop. I don't mod opinions, but I will mod the health of the forums and posts like the above when the track record matches.

Generally, this thread should be about Udrih and the Knicks and a 3rd PG.

* Marc Cornstein, the agent for free-agent point guard Beno Udrih, told The Post five teams are still in the mix for his client’s services.

The Knicks appear long shots because they only have the $1.4 millon veteran’s minimum to offer.

“If he signs with the Knicks the reasons will not be because of the money,’’ Cornstein said. “It would be a disservice to say they’re long shots or favorites. He’s examining the situations.

martin wrote:

tkf wrote:

martin wrote:

tkf wrote:Honestly, I thought they were grooming shump to run some PG duties.. How many teams really run 3 pg's?
3 average PG's? I have no problem with beno, as I think he is an upgrade over prigs,and we should have been patient and looking for a PG that could actually challenge felton to start, as I think felton is a better bench player than starter.... and i would give shump some minutes at point.. i mean, what are we doing with the kid?

For me your thought process is all over the place. Let's look at the situation: The Knicks have vet min and mini-MLE. They have Felton. Prigs played well with the crew and could probably make more than what the Knicks gave him in Europe or even in NBA so you either make him a priority or risk losing him and only have $3M and $1.4M to go after fillers for the team when you need lots of parts.

Do you risk sitting on Beno or Collison with your whole $3M while Prigs and the rest go elsewhere and then are left with DLeagues for backup PG duties?

I know the Knicks would like to have Shump move to PG duties, but is he ready? Do YOU think he is ready if Felton goes down? There is grooming and then there are the realities of him actually being able to play PG. Grooming doesn't mean you still don't go after a 3rd PG BTW, they aren't mutually exclusive.

I would love to move Felton to the bench but what is a realistic situation whereby you get that player? Little to none, so you guard against that by getting Prigs and then going after Beno as appropriate.

here are a couple of threads martin, I will post the link, but in one of these threads there is a list of Free agents available before we made any moves..

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=44978&page=1

in particular 3g had list of free agents(btw, where the heck is 3g?)

Josh Smith
Andre Iguodala
Andrew Bynum
Al Jefferson
Paul Milsap
Brandon Jennings
Kevin Martin
David West
Lamar Odom
Monta Ellis
O.J. Mayo
Jarret Jack
Chauncey Billups
J.J. Hickson
J.J. Redick
Kyle Korver
Andrey Blantche
Toney Allen
Matt Barnes
Mike Dunleavy
Mo Williams
Nate Robsinson
Carl Landry
Nick Young
Corey Brewer
Earl Clark
J.R. Smith
D.J. Augustin
Devin Harris
Dorrell Wright
Tyreke Evans
Chris Andersen
Martell Webster
Dejaun Blair
Wesley Johnson
Al Forqua Aminu
Anthony Murrow
Greg Oden

Then possible others if they decide to Opt out
Trevor Ariza
Emeka Jokafor
Mareese Speights
Shawn Marion
Jerryd Bayless
Ben Gordon

martin, I am not all over the place, we could have done a number of things.. first of all not touching bargnani, I mentioned trying to flip novak and our pick for andre miller...

Dj augustine signed for the vet minimum...

we had options to really upgrade positions of need.. now we are stuggling to sign guys like beno with little money...

Another thread:

http://www.ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=44727&page=3

on a side note martin. I have been a mod on another site for many years.. I have had to deal with disgruntled posters, homers, etc.. every type of fan.... and I will say this, I have been a knick fan longer than carmelo has been playing basketball. I consistently put up with being called a troll and you do nothing about it.. but if I talk negative of carmelo, then I am being modded... One thing I never did was mod opinions, and believe me, I had to fight the urge at times to do so. I enjoy talking ball with you and some others, but don't like the attacks that come my way.. the troll thing, is getting old..

I have been a diehard fan for many, many years.. the knicks have to earn my fandom...

so back on topic.. the knicks had some options actually, and it is just sad that we can't even sign a guy like beno.. I don't care if priggs left... and to keep it real and not diss him, but he is serviceable, but not some guy we had to sign at all cost.. in other words I would rather have felton and a guy like beno locked down with some D leaguer as 3rd string, than to have felton, pablo and possibly some D leaguer as 3rd string... remember we were trying to get bobby brown? who is he?

so the list of FA is nice but really doesn't add to the discussion, right? Most of those guys are unattainable or not a fit.

DJ Augustine would be nice but is he really an upgrade over Prigs? Not sure. You suggest the Knicks should have ignored Priggs and gone after Beno... but you don't address what I had already posted: the downside of NOT getting Beno.

that is not true martin, as I said and maybe you didn't pay attention.... but I mentioned that we didn't have to trade for bargnani.. we could have used a pick, and novak to upgrade a position of need.. a real upgrade... as I said, why are we still looking for PG's? we had options to explore, although limited, we still had some options... again, you do realize we were looking at guys like bobby brown right? so this team was ready to go into the season with felton, prigs and Brown...pretty much a D-league player..

And yes DJ augustine is an upgrade over prigs..

For the Knick's, I think Udrih would easily be our best pure PG/playmaker, however Woodson's "doghouse" and "Iso/dumping the ball to Melo" makes it less appealing and doesn't exactly fit in with Udrih's style of play or help his future contract
With that said, I would love him to be a Knick, and help change our culture to a more TEAM orientated style of play

Contenders
=============

OKC *with Westbrook's injury* only Reggie Jackson and Derek Fisher, Udrih would be the best pure PG on the team

Golden State Warriors only Curry, Tony Douglas, and Kent Bazemore, Udrih would be the #2, even though Iggy will be playing Point/Forward

Possible Playoff contenders/Rebuilding
==============================================

Bobcats (with Sessions injury) only Kemba Walker, Ramon Sessions (expiring), and Ben Gordon (expiring), being all combo guards
adding a veteran to help develop Kemba in to a better PG and facilitator would make sense

Orlando with Jameer Nelson's injury history/age, Victor Oladipo (experiment), E'Twaun Moore, and Ronnie Price all combo guards, but they don't really have roster spots either

Rebuilding
=================

Philly with MCW developing he could even START, playing a large role for his future contract, and Philly has the ability to give him a salary in his market value with their cap room

Boston with Rhondo hurt, they don't have any pure PG's with Phil Presley as a rookie and Avery Bradley/Jordan Crawford more as combo guards for DEF and scoring, but problem is they don't have any roster spots

tkf wrote:

martin wrote:

tkf wrote:on a side note martin. I have been a mod on another site for many years.. I have had to deal with disgruntled posters, homers, etc.. every type of fan.... and I will say this, I have been a knick fan longer than carmelo has been playing basketball. I consistently put up with being called a troll and you do nothing about it.. but if I talk negative of carmelo, then I am being modded... One thing I never did was mod opinions, and believe me, I had to fight the urge at times to do so. I enjoy talking ball with you and some others, but don't like the attacks that come my way.. the troll thing, is getting old..

I have been a diehard fan for many, many years.. the knicks have to earn my fandom...

well how about stop posting about your disdain regarding Melo in every thread. You do that and I am sure the troll posts will stop.

Let me give you and example of such a post that has nothing to do with topic and all about you and your dislike of one player, your post in this thread about Udrih:

tkf wrote:why is it taking a lot of convincing to get him here? i thought all free agents would flock here to come play with carmelo? or so I was told...

If this was only a 1-off I don't think anyone would really care and I certainly wouldn't, but it's not. You created this situation yourself and I'd really like it to stop. I don't mod opinions, but I will mod the health of the forums and posts like the above when the track record matches.

Generally, this thread should be about Udrih and the Knicks and a 3rd PG.

that is a bit of a stretch martin and you know it, every thread?.. but how about this.. how about some balance in every thread? does every move, every conversation have to include

* this person matches well with melo
* melo needs protection
* this guy can team up with melo

amd it goes on, and on, and on.. be it disdain or extreme homerism, shouldn't it be modded the same way? is one better than the other because you happen to agree with it?

why is it taking a lot of convincing to get him here? i thought all free agents would flock here to come play with carmelo? or so I was told...

and that is a legitimate comment, considering that the main argument used to defend carmelo is that he will attract other players here... which I have yet to see...

but that is cool martin, as you said.. this thread was supposed to be about udrih.. so I will move on.

I am done talking about it anyway... because the new flavor of the day now is Pargo... so I guess this is old news..

and this is why other users keep posting troll remarks and refer to you when you bring up Melo for no apparent reason, you have no understanding of the nuance or my explanation.

You are way overboard and I don't think you realize it.

"Marc Cornstein, the agent for free-agent point guard Beno Udrih, told The Post five teams are still in the mix for his client’s services. The Knicks appear long shots because they only have the $1.4 million veteran’s minimum to offer.

“If he signs with the Knicks the reasons will not be because of the money,’’ Cornstein said. “It would be a disservice to say they’re long shots or favorites. He’s examining the situations.’’

Man, please get this done. Not sure if we're longshots anymore -- the above could be lip service and posturing by Beno's agent (who are the other 4 teams?)....We have a good team here as is that would be that much better with him on board. It might come down to a defined role & playing time...I get the feeling he could be had for the minimum the longer he remains out there -- just assure the guy that he'd be the backup PG ahead of Prigioni and that he'd also see mins at 2G. A call from Melo personally wouldn't be a bad idea as well....I would hate to lose this guy to another team on a vet minimum deal now because we never conveyed to him that he'd be ahead of PP in the rotation. Hopefully we've guaranteed that at least. Put the man's mind at ease if this is an issue..

Priority #1: Beno Udrih (or Bobby Brown -- this might go all the way to the 15th before getting resolved).

#2: Ivan Johnson - if I were Grunny in an attempt to lure him, just like the PG situation above with Udrih/PP, I'd tell IJ that he'd be ahead of K-Mart in the rotation and would absolutely get PT in some capacity. Stroke the guy a little -- maybe Melo picks up the phone and talks to this guy personally as well.

#3: The best legit backup C they can get there hands on -- my first choice will always be Marcus Cousin but they've never shown any interest in him -- then Earl Barron, then Haddadi. Not sure after that -- Henry Sims? Hilton Armstrong? Jeremy Tyler?

martin wrote:

tkf wrote:

martin wrote:

tkf wrote:on a side note martin. I have been a mod on another site for many years.. I have had to deal with disgruntled posters, homers, etc.. every type of fan.... and I will say this, I have been a knick fan longer than carmelo has been playing basketball. I consistently put up with being called a troll and you do nothing about it.. but if I talk negative of carmelo, then I am being modded... One thing I never did was mod opinions, and believe me, I had to fight the urge at times to do so. I enjoy talking ball with you and some others, but don't like the attacks that come my way.. the troll thing, is getting old..

I have been a diehard fan for many, many years.. the knicks have to earn my fandom...

well how about stop posting about your disdain regarding Melo in every thread. You do that and I am sure the troll posts will stop.

Let me give you and example of such a post that has nothing to do with topic and all about you and your dislike of one player, your post in this thread about Udrih:

tkf wrote:why is it taking a lot of convincing to get him here? i thought all free agents would flock here to come play with carmelo? or so I was told...

If this was only a 1-off I don't think anyone would really care and I certainly wouldn't, but it's not. You created this situation yourself and I'd really like it to stop. I don't mod opinions, but I will mod the health of the forums and posts like the above when the track record matches.

Generally, this thread should be about Udrih and the Knicks and a 3rd PG.

that is a bit of a stretch martin and you know it, every thread?.. but how about this.. how about some balance in every thread? does every move, every conversation have to include

* this person matches well with melo
* melo needs protection
* this guy can team up with melo

amd it goes on, and on, and on.. be it disdain or extreme homerism, shouldn't it be modded the same way? is one better than the other because you happen to agree with it?

why is it taking a lot of convincing to get him here? i thought all free agents would flock here to come play with carmelo? or so I was told...

and that is a legitimate comment, considering that the main argument used to defend carmelo is that he will attract other players here... which I have yet to see...

but that is cool martin, as you said.. this thread was supposed to be about udrih.. so I will move on.

I am done talking about it anyway... because the new flavor of the day now is Pargo... so I guess this is old news..

and this is why other users keep posting troll remarks and refer to you when you bring up Melo for no apparent reason, you have no understanding of the nuance or my explanation.

You are way overboard and I don't think you realize it.

Maybe if you try a few hundred more times, he will change his style of posting