Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

martin wrote:

tkf wrote:ok, martin,let me ask.. do you expect carmelo to bolt to the lakers? do you hope he does, because if not, you can count on his 25 mil on the books, plus, shumpert, and JR on the books, that will be close to 40 mil martin... so which is it? carmelo or not?

As far as the cavs.. only jarret jack is guaranteed.. now we know they will extend kyrie, but everyone else is a team option.. so they can realistically not bring any of them back if they feel they have a shot at lebron, kevin love, etc... and have the space... adding in kyrie and lets say jack and they keep waiters, they will be under 30 mil... if they add bynum, they will be slightly over.. could you imagine the cavs with a healthy bynum, kyrie and kevin love? I am, sure that would be something that would attract a player like that.. not saying it will happen, but I am looking at things from an outside point of view..

did that answer your question?

nope. dude, do some research and reading. I have posted about a 3 or 4 different variations on what I think the Knicks cap numbers and assumptions would be about a page or so back. It's like you aren't even trying or paying attention.

FINE martin, I am not going back and reading that.. I really didn't pay much attention to this thread because I find it more of a dream than being realistic. You are almost speaking in tones of this being a done deal.. it is speculation at best, one in which almost any team can partake in martin.. And if any of your speculation involves carmelo taking any less than 20 mil, then really, we don't have a discussion. how is that being realistic martin?

You are not being realistic at all. .carmelo is not going to take 15 mil, and neither is rondo or kevin love.. not to come to NY.. not where every single player in the league knows dolan PAYS!!

and the salary cap being 62-64 mil? it is 58 mil now martin.. that is a 6 mil leap in just 2-3 years.. the cap was 53 mil in 2006 martin, that is just 5 mil in 6 years and you are expecting 6 mil in half the time? again how realistic is that?

again, we can make up all types of scenarios martin, but come on, lets be realistic..

To be realistic, i think the Knicks will resign Melo and add 1 max free agent, either Love, Rondo, or Aldridge. Someone will come and join Melo, Shumpert, etc. Shumpert will continue to develop. I know you might not see it as realistic because in your eyes no one in their right mind would play alongside Melo, but i think it is a realistic scenario. Knicks are trying to do what they can now, while making sure to have 1 max slot open in 2015.

i COULD buy that, although I would rather not have carmelo and have rondo and love come.. but I don't see that being realistic as well.. maybe one of them.... but I just don't see how we can have all 3.. under the cap..

Having 3 is a stretch i agree, although it has clearly happened before. But overall, i'm glad you can see how adding one of these guys is a realistic scenario.

I think it is realistic if the knicks still have space.. my fear is that they give carmelo a new deal as soon as they can.. and trade for another contract.. I hope this doesn't happen, but I fear so... but there is a chance that if Aldridge is available he may bite...

tkf wrote:The knicks on the other hand, are the guys that don't look for tomorrow.. they overspend, over party, over drink, they buy the cheap looking versace suits that run 20k per.... and when that deal comes for that maserati, they don't have the cash or the means to pull the trigger..

this has been going on for years now martin.. so it is no surprise that we don't end up with guys like chris paul, dwight, etc... but instead overpay for carmelo, end up with JR smith, etc....

and it is reason why I doubt that the situation that happened in miami and Houston will happen here anytime soon until we change our thinking completely..

Generally you are saying the Knicks will never do anything different, never be put into a position of getting better, etc.

Why you bother than? No need to post or watch or anything. Why aren't you finding another team instead of just poo-pooing everything?

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

tkf wrote:The knicks on the other hand, are the guys that don't look for tomorrow.. they overspend, over party, over drink, they buy the cheap looking versace suits that run 20k per.... and when that deal comes for that maserati, they don't have the cash or the means to pull the trigger..

this has been going on for years now martin.. so it is no surprise that we don't end up with guys like chris paul, dwight, etc... but instead overpay for carmelo, end up with JR smith, etc....

and it is reason why I doubt that the situation that happened in miami and Houston will happen here anytime soon until we change our thinking completely..

Generally you are saying the Knicks will never do anything different, never be put into a position of getting better, etc.

Why you bother than? No need to post or watch or anything. Why aren't you finding another team instead of just poo-pooing everything?

i have stopped watching the yankees because of a-rod. it does not mean i am not a yankee fan i just don't like when ownership hands out mega-rewards for certain types of players-- underachieving and narcissistic types. that contract has crippled the team.

i may stop watching the every single knicks game for a while too so long as melo is on the team... but it won't mean i am no longer a knick fan either. i have been a knicks and yankees and giants fan ever since i was 10 years old.

frankly the nets team is the more glamorous team now and i would not be surprised if there are not wholesale defections this season if the knicks flounder.

i can certainly understand watching the team in the above circumstances, same as what dj-douche did.

But to come on to forums and post ad nauseum about hating the team and a player in particular and concluding that nothing will change accomplishes nothing.

I can respect having a difference of opinion about team direction, player eval etc. but posting that a players is trash at every opportunity and adding nothing else to discussion isn't really discussion, it's trolling.

dk7th wrote:anyway, are we not permitted to lament or voice our disgust with how the knicks do things? that is what tkf is doing, not trolling.

Everyone is permitted to lament or voice disgust. I am starting to form an opinion that if all you do is lament and voice disgust every day that the forums as a whole and discussion as a whole gets degraded, and the disgust and lamenting turns into something that we can't build upon for these forums.

dk7th wrote:and do you personally believe that the past is actually not prelude to the future?

I can see both sides of that coin. What are you getting after?

Still the idea that the Knicks Org. isn't doing what they can to construct a winning team is just wrong. I think this team is still in the hunt, given that you don't know what teams will incur an injury or have a player go into a slump. You don't know if the Knicks will have a player have a bust out year. I think NY is gonna have a couple of guys step up this year. Shump and AB with honorable mentions from THJ and CJ. You have to play the games.

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

tkf wrote:The knicks on the other hand, are the guys that don't look for tomorrow.. they overspend, over party, over drink, they buy the cheap looking versace suits that run 20k per.... and when that deal comes for that maserati, they don't have the cash or the means to pull the trigger..

this has been going on for years now martin.. so it is no surprise that we don't end up with guys like chris paul, dwight, etc... but instead overpay for carmelo, end up with JR smith, etc....

and it is reason why I doubt that the situation that happened in miami and Houston will happen here anytime soon until we change our thinking completely..

Generally you are saying the Knicks will never do anything different, never be put into a position of getting better, etc.

Why you bother than? No need to post or watch or anything. Why aren't you finding another team instead of just poo-pooing everything?

i have stopped watching the yankees because of a-rod. it does not mean i am not a yankee fan i just don't like when ownership hands out mega-rewards for certain types of players-- underachieving and narcissistic types. that contract has crippled the team.

i may stop watching the every single knicks game for a while too so long as melo is on the team... but it won't mean i am no longer a knick fan either. i have been a knicks and yankees and giants fan ever since i was 10 years old.

frankly the nets team is the more glamorous team now and i would not be surprised if there are not wholesale defections this season if the knicks flounder.

i can certainly understand watching the team in the above circumstances, same as what dj-douche did.

But to come on to forums and post ad nauseum about hating the team and a player in particular and concluding that nothing will change accomplishes nothing.

I can respect having a difference of opinion about team direction, player eval etc. but posting that a players is trash at every opportunity and adding nothing else to discussion isn't really discussion, it's trolling.

far be it from me to speak for tkf but one thing forums need are voices of opposition otherwise you run the risk of group-think. i don't come here to opine with the expectation of being agreed with i come here to share my impressions of basketball and by extension the human condition so that it can be discussed analytically.

so far as trolling, i was permanently banned from the realgm forums because i could not stand that one of the "global mods," who goes by the name of moocow, defended carmelo anthony to the point of fetishism. he's probably still hard at it to this day. on a related note, tkf was held in very high esteem there and probably remains in high esteem.

eventually i made one off-color joke at his expense and that was that.

anyway, are we not permitted to lament or voice our disgust with how the knicks do things? that is what tkf is doing, not trolling.

and do you personally believe that the past is actually not prelude to the future?

with just a few bidders there, but the mods don't seem to like me anymore.. LOL.. since I am not towing the company melo line.. haha.

Hey listen, I never intend to come in here and complain about the knicks.. I try to find something positive to talk about.. the sad thing, the one positive I feel about this team.. that is shumpert, I hate to get attached to, because of the knicks history with young players.... There isn't much with this team to celebrate.. I think there can be again one day, and I wait for that.. until then, I refuse to speak positively about players that I despise.. no matter where they played..

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

dk7th wrote:

martin wrote:

tkf wrote:The knicks on the other hand, are the guys that don't look for tomorrow.. they overspend, over party, over drink, they buy the cheap looking versace suits that run 20k per.... and when that deal comes for that maserati, they don't have the cash or the means to pull the trigger..

this has been going on for years now martin.. so it is no surprise that we don't end up with guys like chris paul, dwight, etc... but instead overpay for carmelo, end up with JR smith, etc....

and it is reason why I doubt that the situation that happened in miami and Houston will happen here anytime soon until we change our thinking completely..

Generally you are saying the Knicks will never do anything different, never be put into a position of getting better, etc.

Why you bother than? No need to post or watch or anything. Why aren't you finding another team instead of just poo-pooing everything?

i have stopped watching the yankees because of a-rod. it does not mean i am not a yankee fan i just don't like when ownership hands out mega-rewards for certain types of players-- underachieving and narcissistic types. that contract has crippled the team.

i may stop watching the every single knicks game for a while too so long as melo is on the team... but it won't mean i am no longer a knick fan either. i have been a knicks and yankees and giants fan ever since i was 10 years old.

frankly the nets team is the more glamorous team now and i would not be surprised if there are not wholesale defections this season if the knicks flounder.

i can certainly understand watching the team in the above circumstances, same as what dj-douche did.

But to come on to forums and post ad nauseum about hating the team and a player in particular and concluding that nothing will change accomplishes nothing.

I can respect having a difference of opinion about team direction, player eval etc. but posting that a players is trash at every opportunity and adding nothing else to discussion isn't really discussion, it's trolling.

far be it from me to speak for tkf but one thing forums need are voices of opposition otherwise you run the risk of group-think. i don't come here to opine with the expectation of being agreed with i come here to share my impressions of basketball and by extension the human condition so that it can be discussed analytically.

so far as trolling, i was permanently banned from the realgm forums because i could not stand that one of the "global mods," who goes by the name of moocow, defended carmelo anthony to the point of fetishism. he's probably still hard at it to this day. on a related note, tkf was held in very high esteem there and probably remains in high esteem.

eventually i made one off-color joke at his expense and that was that.

anyway, are we not permitted to lament or voice our disgust with how the knicks do things? that is what tkf is doing, not trolling.

and do you personally believe that the past is actually not prelude to the future?

with just a few bidders there, but the mods don't seem to like me anymore.. LOL.. since I am not towing the company melo line.. haha.

Hey listen, I never intend to come in here and complain about the knicks.. I try to find something positive to talk about.. the sad thing, the one positive I feel about this team.. that is shumpert, I hate to get attached to, because of the knicks history with young players.... There isn't much with this team to celebrate.. I think there can be again one day, and I wait for that.. until then, I refuse to speak positively about players that I despise.. no matter where they played..

Your thinking about sports is sick! I mean really sick! Like in some of those movies. I am a Knicks die hard fan. And there are players that I don't like and can't stand in the realm of sports. But you emotionally hate plays to the point of an emotional hate. It's sick and man you need some real help. You don't like the way Melo plays and you can't stand the owner of the knicks? And all you do all day is complain complain and complain that you are really starting to piss people off. I don't like Pierce , garnet, LeBron, Kobe, but I can recognize that they are great players and if they were knicks I would love them but you are sick with hate. You and that other dude need help.

CrushAlot wrote:

loweyecue wrote:Again IMO we are not winning anything with Melo +1, we may conceivably in a stretch win with 1+Melo. But it would need a different coach and a different approach. IN the 2015 scenario I would start thinking of three stars to target that would really complement each other well instead of being hung up on Melo and who fits with him. In fact in that scenario a sign and trade involving Melo may attain one of those three plus one of the remaining pieces needed to build the roster out. To me three near max stars with good coherence is waaay more potent than one highly skilled player that eats up the cap.

The Knicks have two max guys and a near max guy with only one producing like a star. That is the current problem. If Amare stays healthy and if Tyson plays like he has in flashes the Knicks could be very good. I don't think Amare can stay healthy no matter how hard he trains or works on his game. Tyson's best ball maybe behind him.