JamesKPolk wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Nick Young is terrible. Makes Jamal Crawford Knicks years look efficient but I agree Redick may be average offensively but certainly below average defensively. And should be a joy watching Wade, Lebron, Rose, paul george and joe johnson light him up in the playoffs

Yes, because Iman Shumpert will stop these guys.

Wade averaged 25 ppg on Shumpert during the season and playoffs. How about we relax a little bit with the Shumpert hype? He's not God.

FrankFebruary 20, 2013 at 2:40 pmflossy: Woah, talk about false memories! You know that in the 2 regular season games the Heat played against us last year, Wade averaged 28 ppg on .565 shooting from the field (to Shumpert’s 4ppg)?The fact that he had some memorable defensive possessions in those games doesn’t change the fact that Shump got absolutely steamrolled by Wade overall.

OK, you seem so happy to be ripping on Shump’s defense based on some on/off numbers – so I decided to actually go to Synergy and watch all of Wade’s possessions in the 2 games that we played against MIA last year during which Shump was not injured.You would be quite surprised, and probably with some egg on your face, to know that Shump rarely had primary responsibility on Wade. In the first game (1/27/12) Wade had 28 possessions and on only 2 of them did Shump have primary responsibility — and Wade was 0-1 with 1 TO. Bill Walker and Landry Fields guarded him on the vast majority of his non-transition possessions.In the second game (4/15/12), wade had 23 possessions and Shump had primary responsibility on just 7 of them. Wade was 2-3 from the field with 4 TOs in those 7 possessions.So all said, Wade v Shump is 2/4 FGs, 5 TOs. As far as I can tell (it’s not that straightforward in Synergy), Wade failed to draw a single shooting foul against Shump in those two games. So that means Wade had 9 possessions against Shump, scored 4 points = 0.44 PPP, or about 44% of his season average, and had a TO% of 55% (or roughly 5x his season average).So please. stop with all the Shump-bashing just because Wade had nice numbers while Shump was somewhere on the floor at the same time. Take the time to actually look at the tape, and if you don’t have synergy, take the 1 second to ask someone who does. Then you can draw whatever conclusion you want.

JamesKPolk wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Nick Young is terrible. Makes Jamal Crawford Knicks years look efficient but I agree Redick may be average offensively but certainly below average defensively. And should be a joy watching Wade, Lebron, Rose, paul george and joe johnson light him up in the playoffs

Yes, because Iman Shumpert will stop these guys.

Wade averaged 25 ppg on Shumpert during the season and playoffs. How about we relax a little bit with the Shumpert hype? He's not God.

That was on Fields not Shumpert. When we played Miami in the regular season Fields was starting SG and guarding Wade. It didn't help that Lin had Fields as his secondary ball handler instead of Shumpert. Shumpert went down game 1 of the playoffs. In a game where the momentum swung drastically once the Heat started flopping and getting every call from Ed Malloy who gets overwhelmed by the home crowd

Bro, Shumpert guarded Wade during the season too. Shumpert also got torched in the playoffs. Let's not twist the facts. Let's not also make excuses. Wade is a great player, so is LeBron and the rest. They will get theres and nobody, not even Shumpert, will stop them.

Ha- shumpert got torched in the playoffs?! He played half of one game! Did you even watch last season?!

JamesKPolk wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

JamesKPolk wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Nick Young is terrible. Makes Jamal Crawford Knicks years look efficient but I agree Redick may be average offensively but certainly below average defensively. And should be a joy watching Wade, Lebron, Rose, paul george and joe johnson light him up in the playoffs

Yes, because Iman Shumpert will stop these guys.

Wade averaged 25 ppg on Shumpert during the season and playoffs. How about we relax a little bit with the Shumpert hype? He's not God.

That was on Fields not Shumpert. When we played Miami in the regular season Fields was starting SG and guarding Wade. It didn't help that Lin had Fields as his secondary ball handler instead of Shumpert. Shumpert went down game 1 of the playoffs. In a game where the momentum swung drastically once the Heat started flopping and getting every call from Ed Malloy who gets overwhelmed by the home crowd

Bro, Shumpert guarded Wade during the season too. Shumpert also got torched in the playoffs. Let's not twist the facts. Let's not also make excuses. Wade is a great player, so is LeBron and the rest. They will get theres and nobody, not even Shumpert, will stop them.

Ha- shumpert got torched in the playoffs?! He played half of one game! Did you even watch last season?!

Herp derp...Wade was destroying Shumpert before he got injured. I watched all the games. Did you?

Wade scored a total of 19 points that game and had 5 TOs. Shumpert played 19mins. I dont see how thats destroying or how you can judge a rookie on 19mins. Ridiculous.

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:There's nothing great about shutting down your opponent if the opponent shuts you down even worse. I don't see anything from Shumpert's college or NBA career to indicate that he will ever be a good offensive player. Trading for Redick is a possibility although I don't see a way of making the salaries match and doing a trade I would support. But if we can find a GM who overrates Shumpert even half as much as most fans do here, we need to get the trade talks going with him.

Sounds like Chapter 1, Verse 1 of MDA's basketball bible...If we add Redick to Melo and Amare we still aren't outscoring the Heat or any of the top teams in the playoffs...Our only chance is to play the defense we did at the beginning of the season...Shrump has changed games with his defense...Redick is a bench player at best and highly overrated on this board...With all the explosive guards in the East, Redick and Kidd at the 2 will only get destroyed and no offense they can muster will cover any deficiencies our back court has...I opt for defense over offense, we tried it the other way the last 4 years...Again, why would the Knicks give up the best talent in a trade??

No, it's just basic mathematics. I don't overrate Redick. I see him simply as an average NBA shooting guard, but that's a big upgrade from what we have now. Redick's definitely not my first choice, even among reasonable options.

Calling him the average shooting guard is over rating him...
Here are a few:

Bradley Beal
DeMar DeRozen
OJ Mayo
Westley Mathews
Courtney Lee
Arron Afflalo
Klay Thompson
Tony Allen
Mota Ellis
JR Smith
JCrossover
Jason Richardson
Iamn Shrumpert
Marcus Thorton
Jordan Crawford
Gerald Henderson
Jason Terry
Kevin Martin
Avery Bradley
Tyreke Evans
Eric Gordon
Ray Allen
Paul George
Joe Johnson
Manu
Wade
Kobe
Harden
Iggy

I'm sure I could dig up another 5 or 7 if I put my mind to it...

Nick Young
Gordon Haywood
Danny Green
etc...

Once he gets his lateral movement back he should be fine. I believe we will need Shumps D more than Redick's scoring in the playoffs. The only way I would do it is with some kind of trade for Novak. We lose a shooter, we get one back. I think Novak would be a great fit in Orl. Don't believe he is being used properly here this season.

Maybe Shump's overall game is overrated but I wouldn't say that about his defense, at least when he is 100 percent.

GustavBahler wrote:I wouldn't trade Shump for Redick. Still a little less than half a season to go. By the time the playoffs come around Iman will be in better shape and his D should be better as well. In one game after coming back, he drove from halfcourt to the rim in a heartbeat, took very few steps to get there. Don't see many guards with that ability, that stride, and Shump just got back.

Once he gets his lateral movement back he should be fine. I believe we will need Shumps D more than Redick's scoring in the playoffs. The only way I would do it is with some kind of trade for Novak. We lose a shooter, we get one back. I think Novak would be a great fit in Orl. Don't believe he is being used properly here this season.

Maybe Shump's overall game is overrated but I wouldn't say that about his defense, at least when he is 100 percent.

I would probably not make the trade either, not because Shump is better but because I am hoping that there are some GM's that will overrated as much as we do and over pay.

gunsnewing wrote:The only problem is Shumpert's perimeter defense is going to be useless in the playoffs if Woodson continues to start Kidd who would be guarding Wade with Shumpert on Lebron. Frickin nightmare matchup for Knicks fans

Its hard to say what the matchups will be. What really did Kidd in was Felton getting hurt and Kidd having to help pick up the slack. I agree about Kidd staying healthy. I hope Woodson doesn't run him into the ground before we get to the playoffs, defeats the purpose of signing him. We are really going to need his leadership even if Kidd has seen better days.

GustavBahler wrote:

mrKnickShot wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:I wouldn't trade Shump for Redick. Still a little less than half a season to go. By the time the playoffs come around Iman will be in better shape and his D should be better as well. In one game after coming back, he drove from halfcourt to the rim in a heartbeat, took very few steps to get there. Don't see many guards with that ability, that stride, and Shump just got back.

Once he gets his lateral movement back he should be fine. I believe we will need Shumps D more than Redick's scoring in the playoffs. The only way I would do it is with some kind of trade for Novak. We lose a shooter, we get one back. I think Novak would be a great fit in Orl. Don't believe he is being used properly here this season.

Maybe Shump's overall game is overrated but I wouldn't say that about his defense, at least when he is 100 percent.

I would probably not make the trade either, not because Shump is better but because I am hoping that there are some GM's that will overrated as much as we do and over pay.

If Shump can be traded for someone with a more complete game, then I'd be interested in hearing offers. I'd rather Iman finish out the season first. The only way I would probably change my mind this season is in a package for a real game changer given the limited window this squad has.

I would agree (tentatively).

Why sell shump when his stock is this low? However, can/will it get lower? Suppose he comes back next season and stinks? His stock will plummet! At least now, it can be blamed on him not being all the way back.

I think he will/should be better next year but I don't believe he will ever be near the player that our fans grossly over estimated him to be.