StarksEwing1 wrote:I dont want to give up shump but we definetly need another shooter and another bigman. We need a big body to give tyson some rest since i ahve no faith in camby at this point. Dudley would be nice but i doubt they would trade him unless we gave them shump

I do not get some of the mentality or common sense here. If you liked the fact we got Melo in that trade--why have fear of trading Shumpoert who WILL not be the same player he was last year this year? If Ronnie Brewer played even reasonable--we wouldnt be having this conversation--but he hasnt and wont--and it fills a void. We have hurt Kidd because of Brewer--we need to fill those shoes. If the Knicks could get Reddick in a threeway with Pho and Orlando--Id love to get him first but Dudley and a pick would be smart for us. Dudley here could avg 14 points and shoot 50%--and that my friends might just put us over the top. We dont have time--this team is not built on waiting. Amare Stoudemire is a guy who could go down for good at ANY time. J Kidd is almost done--I think we can get one last burst with him as a back up. Rasheed done this year Camby done Tyson is now 31 and will start going downhill. This is it--lets go for it today. I said it after the Minnesota game--Iman shumperts potential does not equate waiting to improve the team now. We need to go to war with reliable players---Shumpert is not there and highly likely wil be there this year---the Knicks as an organization have been brutal with injured players--let him go to Pho and heal up. Lets get the best deal for us--a high quality vet with a pick is a nice deal take it and dont look back.

BRIGGS wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I dont want to give up shump but we definetly need another shooter and another bigman. We need a big body to give tyson some rest since i ahve no faith in camby at this point. Dudley would be nice but i doubt they would trade him unless we gave them shump

I do not get some of the mentality or common sense here. If you liked the fact we got Melo in that trade--why have fear of trading Shumpoert who WILL not be the same player he was last year this year? If Ronnie Brewer played even reasonable--we wouldnt be having this conversation--but he hasnt and wont--and it fills a void. We have hurt Kidd because of Brewer--we need to fill those shoes. If the Knicks could get Reddick in a threeway with Pho and Orlando--Id love to get him first but Dudley and a pick would be smart for us. Dudley here could avg 14 points and shoot 50%--and that my friends might just put us over the top. We dont have time--this team is not built on waiting. Amare Stoudemire is a guy who could go down for good at ANY time. J Kidd is almost done--I think we can get one last burst with him as a back up. Rasheed done this year Camby done Tyson is now 31 and will start going downhill. This is it--lets go for it today. I said it after the Minnesota game--Iman shumperts potential does not equate waiting to improve the team now. We need to go to war with reliable players---Shumpert is not there and highly likely wil be there this year---the Knicks as an organization have been brutal with injured players--let him go to Pho and heal up. Lets get the best deal for us--a high quality vet with a pick is a nice deal take it and dont look back.

Just out of curiosity BRIGGS, if Shumpert was playing at the level he was at last year, and hadn't had the ACL injury, would you still do the trade?

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I dont want to give up shump but we definetly need another shooter and another bigman. We need a big body to give tyson some rest since i ahve no faith in camby at this point. Dudley would be nice but i doubt they would trade him unless we gave them shump

I do not get some of the mentality or common sense here. If you liked the fact we got Melo in that trade--why have fear of trading Shumpoert who WILL not be the same player he was last year this year? If Ronnie Brewer played even reasonable--we wouldnt be having this conversation--but he hasnt and wont--and it fills a void. We have hurt Kidd because of Brewer--we need to fill those shoes. If the Knicks could get Reddick in a threeway with Pho and Orlando--Id love to get him first but Dudley and a pick would be smart for us. Dudley here could avg 14 points and shoot 50%--and that my friends might just put us over the top. We dont have time--this team is not built on waiting. Amare Stoudemire is a guy who could go down for good at ANY time. J Kidd is almost done--I think we can get one last burst with him as a back up. Rasheed done this year Camby done Tyson is now 31 and will start going downhill. This is it--lets go for it today. I said it after the Minnesota game--Iman shumperts potential does not equate waiting to improve the team now. We need to go to war with reliable players---Shumpert is not there and highly likely wil be there this year---the Knicks as an organization have been brutal with injured players--let him go to Pho and heal up. Lets get the best deal for us--a high quality vet with a pick is a nice deal take it and dont look back.

Just out of curiosity BRIGGS, if Shumpert was playing at the level he was at last year, and hadn't had the ACL injury, would you still do the trade?

There is no what if's in life

No, I'm just curious whether that's a part of the reason why people would trade him, or whether they'd do the trade regardless.

3G4G wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Fields is talented enough to match the contract the Raptors gave him? I think not

S&T and get a 2nd rounder or something...

No way anyone would have traded for Fields at that contract- this new cba has completely changed things for all but the most foolish of GMS (i.e. Toronto's). To give you an idea about the implications of the new luxury tax, here's something Larry Coon wrote about the lakers yesterday:

If we’re going to project tax consequences next season, let’s see if we can construct a realistic model. The Lakers are currently committed to $79.6 million, and if they re=sign Dwight they’ll be at $100.4 million. We have to add at least $3 million or so for them to fill-out the roster, so let’s put them at $104 million, just to round it out. If the tax level is $72 million, that equates to a $94.5 million tax.

I think it’s pretty likely they’d amnesty MWP, so let’s drop $7 million off their payroll (his salary minus replacement player cost), and their tax drops to $63.75 million (total savings from amnestying MWP is over $30 million! Pack your bags, Ron-Ron).

At that point if they want to trade Pau they’d likely be looking for further salary savings. Let’s say they can flip him for acceptable talent and save $5 million in the process. Their tax bill drops to $45 million, so total savings (salary + tax) would be an additional $24 million or so. I think the tax consequence are absolutely going to factor into their decision making.

I think the Lakers are a team that would be willing to face the tax consequences in order to keep a winning team together. But the current team isn’t a winning team.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-salary-cap-chat-with-larry-coon-2813/#kjEDbsEKPhAiJ3Jc.99

Yikes- so a 7mil salary can lead to a $30mil tax bill. Thats not even factoring in the repeater tax added on after 3 years of being over the luxury tax. People say "oh it's NY or LA, they have infinite pockets", but seriously there comes a point where you can't justify that kind of tax hit for a marginal player.

Though to be fair, Larry Coon went on to crack the following 'joke':

I think canning D’Antoni is a realistic possibility after the season if he shows no signs of turning the ship around (pun intended, although most probably don’t realize that a Laker is actually a ship).

That is possibly the worst joke I have heard in quite some time...

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I dont want to give up shump but we definetly need another shooter and another bigman. We need a big body to give tyson some rest since i ahve no faith in camby at this point. Dudley would be nice but i doubt they would trade him unless we gave them shump

I do not get some of the mentality or common sense here. If you liked the fact we got Melo in that trade--why have fear of trading Shumpoert who WILL not be the same player he was last year this year? If Ronnie Brewer played even reasonable--we wouldnt be having this conversation--but he hasnt and wont--and it fills a void. We have hurt Kidd because of Brewer--we need to fill those shoes. If the Knicks could get Reddick in a threeway with Pho and Orlando--Id love to get him first but Dudley and a pick would be smart for us. Dudley here could avg 14 points and shoot 50%--and that my friends might just put us over the top. We dont have time--this team is not built on waiting. Amare Stoudemire is a guy who could go down for good at ANY time. J Kidd is almost done--I think we can get one last burst with him as a back up. Rasheed done this year Camby done Tyson is now 31 and will start going downhill. This is it--lets go for it today. I said it after the Minnesota game--Iman shumperts potential does not equate waiting to improve the team now. We need to go to war with reliable players---Shumpert is not there and highly likely wil be there this year---the Knicks as an organization have been brutal with injured players--let him go to Pho and heal up. Lets get the best deal for us--a high quality vet with a pick is a nice deal take it and dont look back.

Just out of curiosity BRIGGS, if Shumpert was playing at the level he was at last year, and hadn't had the ACL injury, would you still do the trade?

There is no what if's in life

No, I'm just curious whether that's a part of the reason why people would trade him, or whether they'd do the trade regardless.

This is a win now team and we have too many old or broken pieces--that is reality. If we can get back a double digit scorer who is 27 years old---who can avg 14-5-4 here with 35 minutes 50% play good D and get a pick--in our position--you do it. We need another quality soldier and the only asset we have is Shumpert---the Knicks traded all of their picks.

And I suppose rationally it makes sense, but I just couldn't do it! And then there's the issue, that to make salaries match we'd need to include one or two of Kurt, Cope, White and Brewer. More chemistry disruption, plus you've got to fill 2 roster spots cheaply.

i'm afraid when you're in win-now mode you have to seriously consider a trade like this and i am a huge fan of shumpert. but when it's win-now and you have a guy who is healthy versus a guy on the mend....

VCoug wrote:

Frank Isola @FisolaNYDN

There have been whispers that the Knicks are unhappy with Iman's attitude but Woodson seems to like the kid he still calls "Rook."

Has anyone else read/heard anything about this?

Isola is a renown s*** stirrer. Iman has been in a bad mood the past week or two (no twitter, kurt with reporters) because he's been struggling. He's just frustrated at his play and Woody gets that.

VCoug wrote:

Frank Isola @FisolaNYDN

There have been whispers that the Knicks are unhappy with Iman's attitude but Woodson seems to like the kid he still calls "Rook."

Has anyone else read/heard anything about this?

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:I dont want to give up shump but we definetly need another shooter and another bigman. We need a big body to give tyson some rest since i ahve no faith in camby at this point. Dudley would be nice but i doubt they would trade him unless we gave them shump

I do not get some of the mentality or common sense here. If you liked the fact we got Melo in that trade--why have fear of trading Shumpoert who WILL not be the same player he was last year this year? If Ronnie Brewer played even reasonable--we wouldnt be having this conversation--but he hasnt and wont--and it fills a void. We have hurt Kidd because of Brewer--we need to fill those shoes. If the Knicks could get Reddick in a threeway with Pho and Orlando--Id love to get him first but Dudley and a pick would be smart for us. Dudley here could avg 14 points and shoot 50%--and that my friends might just put us over the top. We dont have time--this team is not built on waiting. Amare Stoudemire is a guy who could go down for good at ANY time. J Kidd is almost done--I think we can get one last burst with him as a back up. Rasheed done this year Camby done Tyson is now 31 and will start going downhill. This is it--lets go for it today. I said it after the Minnesota game--Iman shumperts potential does not equate waiting to improve the team now. We need to go to war with reliable players---Shumpert is not there and highly likely wil be there this year---the Knicks as an organization have been brutal with injured players--let him go to Pho and heal up. Lets get the best deal for us--a high quality vet with a pick is a nice deal take it and dont look back.

Just out of curiosity BRIGGS, if Shumpert was playing at the level he was at last year, and hadn't had the ACL injury, would you still do the trade?

There is no what if's in life

No, I'm just curious whether that's a part of the reason why people would trade him, or whether they'd do the trade regardless.

This is a win now team and we have too many old or broken pieces--that is reality. If we can get back a double digit scorer who is 27 years old---who can avg 14-5-4 here with 35 minutes 50% play good D and get a pick--in our position--you do it. We need another quality soldier and the only asset we have is Shumpert---the Knicks traded all of their picks.

And I suppose rationally it makes sense, but I just couldn't do it! And then there's the issue, that to make salaries match we'd need to include one or two of Kurt, Cope, White and Brewer. More chemistry disruption, plus you've got to fill 2 roster spots cheaply.

Chemsitry disruption--ok when the Bulls wipe us out 4-1 you can cry to Chris copeland about chemistry from the airplane. We need soldiers--what chemistry--lets not overstate that BS

StarksEwing1 wrote:Here is the problem. Our defense already sucks. IF we tarde our best defender we are gonna get destroyed in the playoffs. I mean we al1 know felton and kidd cant stop the better guards

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:Here is the problem. Our defense already sucks. IF we tarde our best defender we are gonna get destroyed in the playoffs. I mean we al1 know felton and kidd cant stop the better guards

Agree. Shump fits in nicely in that role. Maybe the Knicks need to think about chaning up the starting lineup and putting Shump at the two and Brewer/White at the three giving Kidd a rest and allowing Shump to defend the best backcourt player. It does get annoying that teams cherry pick the Knicks youth and reasonable contracts. I also like Shump a lot and think he probably won't be himself until next year.

You're right--Shump wonmt be himself until next year--and by next year Kidd Wallace Camby Kurt Thomas are done---prigioni will be 37 and Amare can blow out anythime. If the team is based on waiting on Iman--then its going to be a 2nd round and out at best.

Tommy Beer ‏@TommyBeer
Woodson: "Iman is a big part of what we do... My job is to show him some love and get him back to where he needs to be."

Jonah Ballow ‏@jonahballow
Woodson says @I_Am_Iman will start on @cp3 today for #Knicks - Clippers. @RFeltonGBMS will defend Billups.