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dk7th
Posts: 30006 Alba Posts: 1 Joined: 5/14/2012 Member: #4228 USA |
![]() CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:You can let Harrington and the others get theirs. My point was that the rooks weren't even seeing the court. Both guys had a ton of dnps coaches decisions. Could they have gotten 8-12 minutes a game without disrupting too much? I don't think D'Antoni was protecting anybody. So you think the guys he was giving dnps to were being protected so they wouldn't be demoralized? Thats a spin I haven't heard. Generally teams that lose a lot play their young guys because they are building for the future. It appeared that year that D'ant was waiting for year three when he was going to get to coach guys that deserved his time.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:When Walsh was running the Knicks and D'Antoni was coaching in year two would reasonable people have given the two rookies a minute or two on the court? The Knicks were basically mathematically eliminated from contention very early in the season and the coach kept talking about trying to make the playoffs. The guys that were getting minutes were all leaving. By your logic, the knicks should have patiently been building towards the future. If that is the case how do the rooks get so many dnps coaches decision? The Knicks also didn't have a pick. There was nothing at stake and there were a lot of guys getting minutes that were not a part of the future. I know I felt that D'Antoni's approach was not reasonable and Walsh's not intervening was not reasonable. I also felt the McGrady trade was pretty f@ckin unreasonable. Royce White is going to haunt me for the next ten years.holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:Don't be silly...Melo is a number one no question...He is one of the best if not the best scorer of the basketball from anyplace on the court in today's NBA...He is one of two guys you want with the ball in their hands with 5 seconds left...If LeBron was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...If Wade was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...He rebounding is one of the best at the position, he can rebound with PFs...He can play multiple positions...He has played decent defense as a Knick...You have to divorce yourself from the hate to be objective... well i don't know what you're driving at here... did you think they were good pickups? i liked walsh's work as a drafter as a whole but hill wasn't his best work. i liked douglas as an energy defender but he got beat up working through nba moving picks. and he had no court vision. you can't play for d'antoni in the backcourt without court vision. douglas should have worked his butt off on his left hand but at the end of the day he is an undersized shooting guard, a notch or two below tony delk. hill was a project with not a lot of polish. not a bad little midrange shot but really a garbahj time player. and without a boris diaw-type upside what is d'antoni supposed to do with him? that season duhon, hughes, and harrington had to be given minutes or there would have been a poisonous atmosphere, far worse than the obvious roster-flush situation everyone knew was going on. in a roster flush season you have to keep up appearances and in new york that means playing vets over rookies. this, aside from d'antoni's stubborn streak when it comes to playing rookies and keeping a very short rotation. so i don't begrudge d'antoni not playing those rookies a whole lot. on the other hand, walsh found fields whose talents were squandered after the trade, and he also found harrelson and shumpert. shumpert if he recovers is a very promising player, and harrelson should have played a lot more last year under woodson. i think he will be a valuable guy on a title-contending team. knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
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CrushAlot
Posts: 59764 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/25/2003 Member: #452 USA |
![]() dk7th wrote:Its very simple. The organization drafted those guys because they saw something in them. Hindsight is great but their fate and future was not set after a D'antoni training camp that saw the team go 1-9 to start the season. Your earlier point, that the 'reasonable' thing for the Knicks to do after D'Antoni was fired would have been to try and develop team chemistry and build for the future rather than having Melo play out of his mind to help the team make the playoffs was why I brought up year two. Saying Walsh would have done this if he was in charge because he was reasonable is why I brought up year 2. Reasonable is developing players on a 23 win team not talking about the playoffs. Reasonable isn't playing guys that are leaving the majority of the minutes while you give your young guys a ton of dnps. 8-12 minutes a night on a 23 win team certainly isn't going to hurt the franchise and probably wouldn't impact the game any more negatively then some of the guys that were getting the minutes. Maybe the Knicks only win 21 games that year but get to keep the pick that became Royce White because Houston saw something in Hill that they would not get the chance to see if he never gets on the court or gets into a flow or rythm. Nothing reasonable happened in that second year.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:You can let Harrington and the others get theirs. My point was that the rooks weren't even seeing the court. Both guys had a ton of dnps coaches decisions. Could they have gotten 8-12 minutes a game without disrupting too much? I don't think D'Antoni was protecting anybody. So you think the guys he was giving dnps to were being protected so they wouldn't be demoralized? Thats a spin I haven't heard. Generally teams that lose a lot play their young guys because they are building for the future. It appeared that year that D'ant was waiting for year three when he was going to get to coach guys that deserved his time.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:When Walsh was running the Knicks and D'Antoni was coaching in year two would reasonable people have given the two rookies a minute or two on the court? The Knicks were basically mathematically eliminated from contention very early in the season and the coach kept talking about trying to make the playoffs. The guys that were getting minutes were all leaving. By your logic, the knicks should have patiently been building towards the future. If that is the case how do the rooks get so many dnps coaches decision? The Knicks also didn't have a pick. There was nothing at stake and there were a lot of guys getting minutes that were not a part of the future. I know I felt that D'Antoni's approach was not reasonable and Walsh's not intervening was not reasonable. I also felt the McGrady trade was pretty f@ckin unreasonable. Royce White is going to haunt me for the next ten years.holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:Don't be silly...Melo is a number one no question...He is one of the best if not the best scorer of the basketball from anyplace on the court in today's NBA...He is one of two guys you want with the ball in their hands with 5 seconds left...If LeBron was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...If Wade was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...He rebounding is one of the best at the position, he can rebound with PFs...He can play multiple positions...He has played decent defense as a Knick...You have to divorce yourself from the hate to be objective... I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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mrKnickShot
Posts: 28157 Alba Posts: 16 Joined: 5/3/2011 Member: #3553 |
![]() 3G4G wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:You can let Harrington and the others get theirs. My point was that the rooks weren't even seeing the court. Both guys had a ton of dnps coaches decisions. Could they have gotten 8-12 minutes a game without disrupting too much? I don't think D'Antoni was protecting anybody. So you think the guys he was giving dnps to were being protected so they wouldn't be demoralized? Thats a spin I haven't heard. Generally teams that lose a lot play their young guys because they are building for the future. It appeared that year that D'ant was waiting for year three when he was going to get to coach guys that deserved his time.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:When Walsh was running the Knicks and D'Antoni was coaching in year two would reasonable people have given the two rookies a minute or two on the court? The Knicks were basically mathematically eliminated from contention very early in the season and the coach kept talking about trying to make the playoffs. The guys that were getting minutes were all leaving. By your logic, the knicks should have patiently been building towards the future. If that is the case how do the rooks get so many dnps coaches decision? The Knicks also didn't have a pick. There was nothing at stake and there were a lot of guys getting minutes that were not a part of the future. I know I felt that D'Antoni's approach was not reasonable and Walsh's not intervening was not reasonable. I also felt the McGrady trade was pretty f@ckin unreasonable. Royce White is going to haunt me for the next ten years.holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:Don't be silly...Melo is a number one no question...He is one of the best if not the best scorer of the basketball from anyplace on the court in today's NBA...He is one of two guys you want with the ball in their hands with 5 seconds left...If LeBron was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...If Wade was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...He rebounding is one of the best at the position, he can rebound with PFs...He can play multiple positions...He has played decent defense as a Knick...You have to divorce yourself from the hate to be objective... 3G4G, I thought that you were a TKF alter ego (robot thinker who defies logic) but I was so wrong. Very good post dude! |
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/25/2003 Member: #452 USA |
![]() 3G4G wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:You can let Harrington and the others get theirs. My point was that the rooks weren't even seeing the court. Both guys had a ton of dnps coaches decisions. Could they have gotten 8-12 minutes a game without disrupting too much? I don't think D'Antoni was protecting anybody. So you think the guys he was giving dnps to were being protected so they wouldn't be demoralized? Thats a spin I haven't heard. Generally teams that lose a lot play their young guys because they are building for the future. It appeared that year that D'ant was waiting for year three when he was going to get to coach guys that deserved his time.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:When Walsh was running the Knicks and D'Antoni was coaching in year two would reasonable people have given the two rookies a minute or two on the court? The Knicks were basically mathematically eliminated from contention very early in the season and the coach kept talking about trying to make the playoffs. The guys that were getting minutes were all leaving. By your logic, the knicks should have patiently been building towards the future. If that is the case how do the rooks get so many dnps coaches decision? The Knicks also didn't have a pick. There was nothing at stake and there were a lot of guys getting minutes that were not a part of the future. I know I felt that D'Antoni's approach was not reasonable and Walsh's not intervening was not reasonable. I also felt the McGrady trade was pretty f@ckin unreasonable. Royce White is going to haunt me for the next ten years.holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:Don't be silly...Melo is a number one no question...He is one of the best if not the best scorer of the basketball from anyplace on the court in today's NBA...He is one of two guys you want with the ball in their hands with 5 seconds left...If LeBron was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...If Wade was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...He rebounding is one of the best at the position, he can rebound with PFs...He can play multiple positions...He has played decent defense as a Knick...You have to divorce yourself from the hate to be objective... Awesome. I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
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3G4G
Posts: 23485 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 9/3/2012 Member: #4333 |
![]() If you notice in most of those videos....The Kids were on the court had helped build leads/playing with leads/demolishing finishing the opponents off.
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TheloniusMonk
Posts: 21470 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 7/15/2004 Member: #705 USA |
![]() 3G4G wrote:If you notice in most of those videos....The Kids were on the court had helped build leads/playing with leads/demolishing finishing the opponents off. THE BIG 3!!! And now those guys are in total demand across the league while helping their team reach the finals. We truly missed out on 3 of the NBA's top notch talent. Every championship team of the past 50 years have built around guys like Moz, Wilson and Gallo. Hell that's all you need! That's one hell of a big 3 right there. Whoever builds around them will be champions in no time. Who needs a dpoy and an elite player? Bring back the big 3! 'You can catch me in Hollis at the hero shop!'
-Tony Yayo
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ChuckBuck
Posts: 28851 Alba Posts: 11 Joined: 1/3/2012 Member: #3806 USA |
![]() Oh how I miss thee, Timofey...
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tkf
Posts: 36487 Alba Posts: 6 Joined: 8/13/2001 Member: #87 |
![]() mrKnickShot wrote:3G4G wrote:dk7th wrote:CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:You can let Harrington and the others get theirs. My point was that the rooks weren't even seeing the court. Both guys had a ton of dnps coaches decisions. Could they have gotten 8-12 minutes a game without disrupting too much? I don't think D'Antoni was protecting anybody. So you think the guys he was giving dnps to were being protected so they wouldn't be demoralized? Thats a spin I haven't heard. Generally teams that lose a lot play their young guys because they are building for the future. It appeared that year that D'ant was waiting for year three when he was going to get to coach guys that deserved his time.CrushAlot wrote:dk7th wrote:When Walsh was running the Knicks and D'Antoni was coaching in year two would reasonable people have given the two rookies a minute or two on the court? The Knicks were basically mathematically eliminated from contention very early in the season and the coach kept talking about trying to make the playoffs. The guys that were getting minutes were all leaving. By your logic, the knicks should have patiently been building towards the future. If that is the case how do the rooks get so many dnps coaches decision? The Knicks also didn't have a pick. There was nothing at stake and there were a lot of guys getting minutes that were not a part of the future. I know I felt that D'Antoni's approach was not reasonable and Walsh's not intervening was not reasonable. I also felt the McGrady trade was pretty f@ckin unreasonable. Royce White is going to haunt me for the next ten years.holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:dk7th wrote:holfresh wrote:Don't be silly...Melo is a number one no question...He is one of the best if not the best scorer of the basketball from anyplace on the court in today's NBA...He is one of two guys you want with the ball in their hands with 5 seconds left...If LeBron was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...If Wade was a Knick, I want Melo with the ball with 5 seconds left...He rebounding is one of the best at the position, he can rebound with PFs...He can play multiple positions...He has played decent defense as a Knick...You have to divorce yourself from the hate to be objective... DUDE HOLD your own battles, trying to piggyback isn't cute....actually this is something myself and 3g agree on.... nice try tho... Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser...............
TKF
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3G4G
Posts: 23485 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 9/3/2012 Member: #4333 |
![]() TheloniusMonk wrote:3G4G wrote:If you notice in most of those videos....The Kids were on the court had helped build leads/playing with leads/demolishing finishing the opponents off.
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tkf
Posts: 36487 Alba Posts: 6 Joined: 8/13/2001 Member: #87 |
![]() 3G4G wrote:TheloniusMonk wrote:3G4G wrote:If you notice in most of those videos....The Kids were on the court had helped build leads/playing with leads/demolishing finishing the opponents off.
what i don't get is that people will be quick to be sarcastic about the kids being stars you build around, I don't think anyone ever made that claim.... the sad thing is, they say that as if we got a player who has come close or accomplished those things..... it really is odd reasoning... Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser...............
TKF
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3G4G
Posts: 23485 Alba Posts: 0 Joined: 9/3/2012 Member: #4333 |
![]() tkf wrote:DUDE HOLD your own battles, trying to piggyback isn't cute.... funny you give him props on an issue we have agreed on before, actually this very issue right here.. I am sure he will verify that.....
Yeah you guys can try and clown Moz for getting dunked on by Griffin now but that's not what you were feeling then. Typical..... all of you keep this in consideration should he ever reach free agency again and we contemplate his availability |
tkf
Posts: 36487 Alba Posts: 6 Joined: 8/13/2001 Member: #87 |
![]() 3G4G wrote:tkf wrote:DUDE HOLD your own battles, trying to piggyback isn't cute.... funny you give him props on an issue we have agreed on before, actually this very issue right here.. I am sure he will verify that..... yea, I agree dantoni didn't do the best job handling the kids, he was not perfect, and we don't claim that he is... we do agree on some things, others we don't when it comes to dantoni, but that is cool... and yea, now it is time to clown moz.. typical knick fan behavior tho.... I can never understand how you can defend your players till the end when they are here.. once they leave, they are bums.. go figure.. is there just anything wrong with saying.. Yea, we may have given up a lot of talent lately, but we are happy with what we got back and are willing to roll with whatever happens.. instead of trying to belittle every single player that left here in order to justify extremely questionable moves... I don't like the move so I am going to express how I feel.. and note, I only point out the facts about carmelo, never said the guy was a scrub, just that he isn't what people have made him out to be. his resume backs that up.. Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser...............
TKF
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ChuckBuck
Posts: 28851 Alba Posts: 11 Joined: 1/3/2012 Member: #3806 USA |
![]() One of my favorite highlights of Gallo in a Knicks uniform:
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tkf
Posts: 36487 Alba Posts: 6 Joined: 8/13/2001 Member: #87 |
![]() ChuckBuck wrote:One of my favorite highlights of Gallo in a Knicks uniform: gotta love this one as well. Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser...............
TKF
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